“Yellow Flag” ERPO’s - They’re a-Coming...

MaverickNH

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Firearms and Dementia | Annals of Internal Medicine | American College of Physicians
“The estimated number of older persons in the United States with Alzheimer disease is projected to increase from 4.7 million in 2010 to 13.8 million by 2050. An estimated 33% of all adults aged 65 years or older own a gun; another 12% live in a household with someone who does (1). A 1999 study estimated that 60% of persons with dementia (PWDs) live in a household with a firearm (2). If approximately 40% to 60% of households with PWDs also have a firearm, 7.8 to 11.8 million PWDs may live in a home with a firearm by 2050.”


I review submitted papers for a few medical journals, including Annals of Internal Medicine. The authors of the above ‘Ideas and Opinions’ article tried to foist a totally crap biased survey into publication to provide support for their “ideas and opinions” that more needs to be done about homes that have elderly and guns. The survey didn’t even support their conclusions, as they found most families and caregivers sort that out without police seizing firearms. But they want laws and seizures - if you want Grandpa to live out his days at home rather than in a county home or institution, you have to give his guns to the police. If he lives with you, your guns gotta go too.

While that manuscript got shut down it will go to a lesser journal and end up getting published and referenced by Everytown as Medical Research supporting the need to get guns out of homes with those susceptible to dementia.

Hence, the rise of “Yellow Flag” laws that allow anyone to ask removal of guns from homes with old white males. Early warning - it’s coming.
 
What a bunch of uppity f***ing pukes! Disarm those elderly veterans who defended this country? Disarm the people who worked hard to build this country and faithfully paid their taxes for decades? I hate doctors and do not trust them anymore. They are now just government puppets ready to rat us out at will. My daughters learned their lesson after the disastrous visit to the pediatrician last year. Say no when asked about gun ownership by doctors and nurses.
 
What a bunch of uppity f***ing pukes! Disarm those elderly veterans who defended this country? Disarm the people who worked hard to build this country and faithfully paid their taxes for decades? I hate doctors and do not trust them anymore. They are now just government puppets ready to rat us out at will. My daughters learned their lesson after the disastrous visit to the pediatrician last year. Say no when asked about gun ownership by doctors and nurses.
What happened at the pediatrician?
 
Well after living with a person with Alzheimer's this week I say people with this affliction absolutely shouldn't have guns. I don't want .gov being involved, but hopefully their families will help.

I saved my 82 year-old mother-in-law's life Monday when she took a coatless walk & I found her 250 yards out in the woods where she'd been 2+ hours, shivering under a fallen tree. A 911 call, and a night in the hospital and she's back to her normal "just forgetful" self.

"The story" is that she went out looking for the dog. I'm not unconvinced that she didn't try to off herself so as not to be a burden. When I found her she wasn't "Oh thank goodness you found me!" She was more "What are you doing out here?" as if she was surprised or even disappointed to have been found. She won't be left home alone, ever again. She was alone for about an hour, and then it took a) a while to figure out she was gone (thought she was up napping), and then b) another while to find her.

I have a feeling if *I* knew I had Alzheimer's, and felt it getting worse and worse, I might try to find a way to end my suffering. It's awful.
 
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Well after living with a person with Alzheimer's this week I say people with this affliction absolutely shouldn't have guns. I don't want .gov being involved, but hopefully their families will help.

I saved my 82 year-old mother-in-law's life Monday when she took a coatless walk & I found her 250 yards out in the woods where she'd been 2+ hours, shivering under a fallen tree. A 911 call, and a night in the hospital and she's back to her normal "just forgetful" self.

"The story" is that she went out looking for the dog. I'm not unconvinced that she didn't try to off herself so as not to be a burden. When I found her she wasn't "Oh thank goodness you found me!" She was more "What are you doing out here?" as if she was surprised or even disappointed to have been found. She won't be left home alone, ever again. She was alone for about an hour, and then it took a) a while to figure out she was gone (thought she was up napping), and then b) another while to find her.

I have a feeling if *I* knew I had Alzheimer's, and felt it getting worse and worse, I might try to find a way to end my suffering. It's awful.
Thank you for sharing some of the challenges in dealing with elders. As I age I know my loved ones show an increased amount of care in my mental capacity. It is a blessing to have those who care beyond the law and to the person. This is what we call love.
 
Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. My dad is only 72 and he now has Alzheimer's/vascular dementia severe enough that he can't be left alone. He had firearms when he was younger (before I was born) and I was glad he no longer had firearms three years ago when he first started getting bad, was living alone and I had to go check on him. Outside of 2A, I totally understand the perspective of vulnerable older folks needing the ability to protect themselves but I also see the perspective of caregivers, visiting nurses, etc that don't feel like getting shot. Ideally, family would get involved when the time comes and the afflicted person would acknowledge their deficiencies and cooperate but it doesn't always happen that way.
 
Well after living with a person with Alzheimer's this week I say people with this affliction absolutely shouldn't have guns. I don't want .gov being involved, but hopefully their families will help.

I saved my 82 year-old mother-in-law's life Monday when she took a coatless walk & I found her 250 yards out in the woods where she'd been 2+ hours, shivering under a fallen tree. A 911 call, and a night in the hospital and she's back to her normal "just forgetful" self.

"The story" is that she went out looking for the dog. I'm not unconvinced that she didn't try to off herself so as not to be a burden. When I found her she wasn't "Oh thank goodness you found me!" She was more "What are you doing out here?" as if she was surprised or even disappointed to have been found. She won't be left home alone, ever again. She was alone for about an hour, and then it took a) a while to figure out she was gone (thought she was up napping), and then b) another while to find her.

I have a feeling if *I* knew I had Alzheimer's, and felt it getting worse and worse, I might try to find a way to end my suffering. It's awful.

Those Life Alert type systems have tracking capabilities now. My neighbor had one for the traditional reasons, but found out about tracking when his sister would call and ask him to pick up something while he was out. I believe you can get notified if they leave a predetermined area. It's not 100% because she can just take it off or forget to put it on, but it's another layer of protection.
 
Little Jill told the nurse practitioner that daddy (yours truly) owned guns when she was asked. My wife and I were told to get rid of the guns. We walked out and never returned.
I am sorry that happened.

Thanks for sharing that as a lesson for us all.

Even if you gave "Little Jill" SERE training - those clever and sly docs would have tricked her into saying you owned guns.

It must have been so traumatic for her knowing that she got you in such trouble.

She probably thought it was all her fault.
 
What a bunch of uppity f***ing pukes! Disarm those elderly veterans who defended this country? Disarm the people who worked hard to build this country and faithfully paid their taxes for decades? I hate doctors and do not trust them anymore. They are now just government puppets ready to rat us out at will. My daughters learned their lesson after the disastrous visit to the pediatrician last year. Say no when asked about gun ownership by doctors and nurses.

That sucks.

I'm thankful that I both like my doctor and his PA (NP? I forget which, she's good) and they don't get spooked by gun stuff. Last visit we talked about 500 Magnum vs. .45ACP. His information was that .45 was "the big bad". Kind of old info :)
 
We have the "Red Flag" laws, After this so called "Yellow Flag" gets set into place, some time goes by and hey, We need a "Green Flag" law, every thing is fine, your an outstanding law abiding individual, but we need to take your guns, well , you know, because they are guns.

No, "Red" and "Yellow" will simply be subject to definition-creep, such that thoughtcrime falls under one or other color.
 
If you live with a demented person, the solution is as simple as changing the safe combination.

A bigger problem is demented drivers. The RMV will not renew a demented person's license but does require they answer "NO" to the "do you have dementia" question on renewal. Past age 75 or so, renewal should require an MD to ascertain you do not have the big D, just as you have to pass an eye test rather than simply answer a question "do you see well" on the in-person license renewals.

I have been in a head-on collision caused directly by a driver with dementia driving the wrong way in the lane I was riding in.

The problem is the elderly lobby is more powerful than the gun lobby, and insists on retaining the driving privs even when medically unsuitable.
 
If you live with a demented person, the solution is as simple as changing the safe combination.

A bigger problem is demented drivers. The RMV will not renew a demented person's license but does require they answer "NO" to the "do you have dementia" question on renewal. Past age 75 or so, renewal should require an MD to ascertain you do not have the big D, just as you have to pass an eye test rather than simply answer a question "do you see well" on the in-person license renewals.

I have been in a head-on collision caused directly by a driver with dementia driving the wrong way in the lane I was riding in.

The problem is the elderly lobby is more powerful than the gun lobby, and insists on retaining the driving privs even when medically unsuitable.

It's not just dementia.

Here in town, we have not one, not two, but THREE 55+ communities. There have already been several crashes (often head-on) involving drivers who have had medical episodes behind the wheel.
 
Here in town, we have not one, not two, but THREE 55+ communities. There have already been several crashes (often head-on) involving drivers who have had medical episodes behind the wheel.
No easy answer

Revoking a DL because someone is old and something might happen is like punishing pre-crime. Revoking it because someone already has a medical condition is like punishing crime.

Family members sometimes step in but are often reluctant to do so for a variety of reasons. I know of a case where a family member was disinherited because of his involvement in having a demented elder's license taken.
 
When are we gonna have doctor controls? One murdered my son and she still gets to practice. What ever happened to if it saves one life. The last person I'd trust is an American physician.
Dr and nurse at his orders killed my stepfather in 2003. He had had shoulder surgery on the 2nd day after I get the call from a nurse while mom was visiting him that I needed to come down that someone had happened and I needed to be there. I get there 20 mins later he's gone, he's tubed up floor full of debris from the save effort. Mom's a wreck in the hall. 3 nurses who didn't know I was with the family were talking in the room while looking at the chart 1 is freaked out saying why did u give that when he had this an hour before they cant be given together and he had an allergy noted here too God were all scrrwed. The other nurse is like I didn't know the Dr ordered it I didn't have the chart and just did it. My mom was so distraught she refused the autopsy option while I was pleading with her for it and the lab report but she wouldnt agree she didn't want him mutilated. The best part is that was the last patient the Dr saw. He closed up his practice fired his staff and left his reason given was he decided to retire with no notice said he was going to Florida. Mom and I have talked about it since she claims she has no memory other than seeing him in the hospital bed for that day.
 
Little Jill told the nurse practitioner that daddy (yours truly) owned guns when she was asked. My wife and I were told to get rid of the guns. We walked out and never returned.
I would out these MFers to everyone I knew, gun owners and non-gun owners alike. I hope you wrote a nastygram to the whole healthcare chain they fell under.
 
No easy answer

Revoking a DL because someone is old and something might happen is like punishing pre-crime. Revoking it because someone already has a medical condition is like punishing crime.

Family members sometimes step in but are often reluctant to do so for a variety of reasons. I know of a case where a family member was disinherited because of his involvement in having a demented elder's license taken.
We've had two elderly neighbors ("old" neighborhood, not from the 55+ - one of whom sadly has passed on) give up driving. One case was voluntary: we visited her for the holidays a couple days ago and she told us the story. The other (the one who's no longer with us): family had to intervene.
 
I know for a fact it is not as easy as just taking the keys. The elder can call the PD and report stolen keys and PD will order them returned (I've seen it happen).
 
In the past few weeks, have seen some very old drivers, 90 plus, they were doing very well at the wheel, and actually looking where they were going. As compared to the pin heads with their cell phones that are not even looking where they are going as they approach AND pass you.
So comparing the two groups, the old group has a reason for driving poorly, medical or what it may be. This other younger, or whom ever cell phone group could drive fine, but they choose not to, because a text is more important.
 
I would out these MFers to everyone I knew, gun owners and non-gun owners alike. I hope you wrote a nastygram to the whole healthcare chain they fell under.
You bet your ass I did! Wife did as well! Jill and Lexi learned their lesson that day. No talk about guns outside of our home.
 
I know for a fact it is not as easy as just taking the keys. The elder can call the PD and report stolen keys and PD will order them returned (I've seen it happen).

Actually it is just that easy. PD can't order the lost keys to reappear from the mist. I know of a situation where some license plates were 'lost'. PD accused me of removing them and made all kinds of threats because only the PD could revoke plates. I of course denied all knowledge of such a dastardly deed and wished them success in their quest for the missing plates. As I recall they were never found. Don't ignore obvious safety issues.
 
You bet your ass I did! Wife did as well! Jill and Lexi learned their lesson that day. No talk about guns outside of our home.


I tell my son the same thing, it's nobody's business that I own a gun. Don't tell anyone, don't talk about me having one etc. I've explained the ERPO BS to him, and that all it takes is some anti-gun neighbor, teacher, family member or whoever to make a call. He's 13 years old, but he knows the deal.
 
Isn't here some epidemic of old people going on shooting sprees that I'm unaware of?

Typical......any reason they can find to confiscate. The red flag laws in a handful of states was just the beginning everyone.
 
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