12 yo nephew wants to go to the range

[Lucas McCain]

I need some advice, my 12 year old nephew wants me to take him to the range. I had him over for a cookout last weekend and he brought his airsoft MG over for some backyard plinking. My problem is that after seeing the way he handled it, I am not sure I want to hand him a loaded gun. My impression is that he is too immature and unless I hold the gun, it might get pointed at something nobody wants a hole in. He did go to boyscout camp and fired a bolt action .22 but last weekend he was pointing that airsoft gun at his sisters and not aware of where the muzzle was pointing most of the time.

When I tried to teach him about proper handling of a gun and how to treat it as if it was loaded, he didnt seem to be paying attention. So I discussed it with my BIL and he said it would be OK to take him but just let him watch me shoot. Thats no fun for a kid, he will get bored in 5 minutes and that will be the end of the trip.

My question is this, is 12 years old, too young to consider this? Should I invite him to my house first and hand him an unloaded .22 and teach him how to handle it? I have to say, I would be a little nervous around him if he had a loaded firearm and I did not have my hand on it at all times. Maybe he is just too young at this point and needs to be a few years older before we do this, I dont want to turn him off to the whole sport but I need to see him have a little more respect for guns before I feel comfortable with this.

 

[atilla]

the airsoft gun could be an effective training tool, have him practice with that and then if he wants to put effort towards proper and safe handling you can take it from there.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

He handles the airsoft the way he does because he thinks it's a toy and because no one has every taught him about gun safety. People aren't born knowing this stuff it's learned. Try teaching him and see how it goes.

 

[packingungal]

If you are uncomfortable he will pick up on that easily, so if you move ahead with instruction - decide you will be comfortable with it.

Lay the rules down and see how he reacts to them.

Age is not the factor, maturity is.

If you are concerned about anything at all, suggest to his dad that he seek out a licensed instructor.

 

[Sprocket]

the airsoft gun could be an effective training tool, have him practice with that and then if he wants to put effort towards proper and safe handling you can take it from there.

That's a good idea - set up a "range" in the back yard and work a little and see how he does. Stress the basics - muzzle control, trigger finger, etc.

Don't expect him to get it all in one session, especially where he's showing bad habits already - use some "time out"s or what my Dad called "a licking" if he fails to follow through.

Take him to a range and illustrate what a bullet can do to a melon or finger-like hot dogs...Help him understand exactly how much notatoy a firearm can be.

Shoot the melon and ask him to put it back together - when he says he can't say "Right, now imagine it was you." He might get it pretty quickly.

Maturity is the key as someone here mentioned.

Best of luck - I hope it works out for you both.

 

[WeedWhacker]

Last year a family friend brought her 12 yr old son over with her, we dont see him very often.. He was "bored" so I figured hey lets go shoot some pellet guns(nice ones)...

He commented instantly about shooting birds and neighbors houses etc... And his mother just said "david dont do that" .. I realized it was time to "LAY DOWN THE LAW"... As mom and dad most likely have never went beyond "dont do that" Some kids just "dont know" they see this stuff on tv/movies all the time and they are desensitized for any real world actions.

Went in detail as much as possible that even though this is not a real firearm by no means is it a toy and all the principles hold true to this and a rifle, and we would have fun later demonstrating why this was a very powerful tool that we were going to learn about.

Went over every safety rule. What is responsible shooting, and why it is NEVER ok to even "joke" about things like shooting at a window or a street light etc, let alone partake in those actions even under "peer pressure".

Proper handling of the firearm. I pumped as much education into the kid as I could in a goal oriented manor.

25 minutes later he was a whole new kid. I think it just "stuck", his mother has actually purchased him a nice pellet gun which apparently he still "follows weedwhackers rules" as she has witnessed him teaching his older brother who is 18 the rules if firearm ownership.

I say give it a try educate the kid with parent's permission or involve them. Constant supervision is a must and instant correction is an absolute must, enforce the guidelines. And there are real consequences to not following the guidlines you set forth.

Keep in mind I do not have kids. My thoughts might be totally wrong on how to deal with kids.... I'm not a parent.........

This is just my experience with a young'n that had a positive outcome. I do feel its somewhat wrong to refer to the pellet guns we were handling as "firearms" but I did not want to in any way negate the power of a pellet gun vs a true firearm. IMO pellet guns can cause serious injury or issues if used improperly.

 

[jenlynn724]

If he does not take gun safety seriously, real or toy, then I wouldn't take him.. Maybe get him an airsoft pistol that looks realistic, and give him a little safety lesson. My son is 9, and he treats all guns as if they are real, and loaded. He once shot me in the face with an airsoft by accident, because he wasn't conscious of his muzzle. Now, he won't even point a toy anywhere but in a safe direction.. I don't think your nephew is ready..

 

[icyclefar]

Age is not the factor, maturity is.

I introduced my son into the sport at 10. He was so stoked to get the opportunity to shoot that there was NOTHING he would not do to get me to take him to the range.

He got his range pass by giving up all the toy guns! Gone, out with the trash, all of them. I told him, guns are not toy's, and toys should not be guns.

Teaching him basic safety was easy, he was, and still is an excellent student.

A little more than a month ago he shot a perfect round of skeet! Not bad for a 13 year old with a year and a half of skeet shooting experience!

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=964489#post964489

 

[DJMc]

He handles the airsoft the way he does because he thinks it's a toy and because no one has every taught him about gun safety. People aren't born knowing this stuff it's learned. Try teaching him and see how it goes.

Amen. Tell him that when he can follow the safety rules with an airsoft gun, you will then take him to the range. When he shows some maturity, you can treat him maturely.

 

[bpm990d]

Maybe he is just too young at this point and needs to be a few years older before we do this...

It's not the age, it's the behaviors. You said you would be nervous around him with a real gun. I'd take the airsoft away from him when he came over and hand him a broom stick and have a discussion about safety. If he manages not to sweep anyone (no pun intended) with the broomstick, he can get the airsoft back. You can then move on to things like trigger discipline...

It's not his fault. People learn crap by osmosis when society is so full of it. Kids are even more perceptible to it.

B

 

[Aube]

People buy those things their kids thinking there just gunna shoot targets.

Then when mommy and daddy isnt around they have all out wars in the house and terrorize there cat or anything else living. Which is fun, but kids are stupid.

Me and my dad used to have wars like that, lots of fun especially if he fell asleep on the couch. Good times.

But yeah, thsoe things can hurt. I've gotten bleeding welts from them.
"
If he messes up i say shoot him with it and say "See it hurts doesnt it?". <----sarcasm

 

[bpm990d]

What exactly would the kid learn by having his uncle shoot him?

B

 

[Keystone]

What exactly would the kid learn by having his uncle shoot him?

B

Don't F with his uncle?

I'm far from a parent or the like, but I'd be tempted to take him to the range. Show him proper handling of a firearm, and how much fun it can be. Lay down the law, make sure he knows that he won't have that fun anymore if he doesn't follow the rules. CLOSELY SUPERVISE!!

An airsoft, for all that it hurts and can even (if mishandled) seriously injure, is a toy. Handling real firearms, with some demonstration of what sort of damage they can do, may click with him as what not to do. Break out the big and fun things, let him know that if he handles the peashooters acceptably, maybe someday he'll get to shoot them. Dangle that carrot, make him work for it. Kids need reinforcement.

 

[CRSIII]

guns are not toy's, and toys should not be guns.

Agree 100%.
No toy guns in my house. I've been saying this to my children since they were old enough to understand what I was saying.
I'm still trying to gauge my son as to his interest in the sport.
I think air-soft would make a good starting point.
I took my oldest (a girl) to the range with a pump .22 loaded with shorts, she shot 4 rounds, and lost interest.
Lucas, it sounds like there is some serious ''unlearning'' needed in your situation. Patience and saftey are paramount here.
Good luck.

 

[Aube]

What exactly would the kid learn by having his uncle shoot him?

B

He would't learn anything, it was sarcasm.

Airsoft guns arn't toys. Its just like paintball.

 

[dwarven1]

Take him to a range and illustrate what a bullet can do to a melon or finger-like hot dogs...Help him understand exactly how much notatoy a firearm can be.

Shoot the melon and ask him to put it back together - when he says he can't say "Right, now imagine it was you." He might get it pretty quickly.

Some things I've heard is to start off by vaporizing a full water jug - give him an idea of the destructive power of a real gun. give him the 4 rules.

And the first time he sweeps or acts in an unsafe manner, immediately pack up for the day and explain to him that you'll only teach him to shoot if he's safe about it. You may lose a day's shooting or two, but it's supposed to be effective.

 

[jhrosier]

...
He got his range pass by giving up all the toy guns! Gone, out with the trash, all of them. I told him, guns are not toy's, and toys should not be guns....

I really like this approach!
When he drops the toys guns into the trash, he takes the first step from childhood to adulthood.
It would be great to be able to surprise him with the gift of a decent quality air rifle at that time, to be used with supervision at first, and eventually without supervision.

Jack

 

[Polibious]

For what its worth, I'll start w/ a question. How much time can you dedicate to this kid? A day? A couple days /year? Or, are you a regular part of this kid's life? Someone he sees and respects? If its the former, you probably can't do much. If its the latter, read on...I'm a parent, but...by no means an expert.

I (and my wife) struggled w/ how to introduce our little girl (now 8) to guns. We started just by talking about them, but this is pointless to your issue, so on to the task at hand...

We started w/ Air rifles, loaded only 1 BB. Going over safe handling and aiming, and shooting at reactive targets (balloons, water bottles etc.). This givesd some sense of what 1 round of anything can do (the "bang" of a balloon popping elicits a very real teachable moment. We progressed to .22 at the range, again w/ only 1 round loaded at any time and under "hands on supervision".

Obviously, this is a very brief description of training, there were many setbacks, like the time she wanted to, "see" what the BB looked like in the chamber (Think about it, really only one way to do this and its a bad idea).

Good luck w/ your nephew if you intend to teach him safe shooting.

PS Not to Hijack the thread, but I've posted before about the lack of research based training programs for kids (Eddy the Eagle is not supported by research). I would certainly appreciate a thread dedicated to proven techniques that safely introduce kids to firearms, as my own post admits, I sort of made things up as I went.

Good luck again!

 

[Kalahari]

He can't learn gun safety if you don't teach him.

Besides, he's probably bright enough to realize that airsoft guns are "toys" while real guns certainly aren't...

 

[bpm990d]

(Eddy the Eagle is not supported by research). I would certainly appreciate a thread dedicated to proven techniques that safely introduce kids to firearms, as my own post admits, I sort of made things up as I went.

Good luck again!

Eddie Eagle is not firearms training and has nothing to do with introducing youths to shooting.

B

 

[Lucas McCain]

Thanks to you all, I am going to forward the link to this thread to his father so he can discuss / prepare him and reinforce the fact that this is fun but serious as well. We will take a .22 to the range and before anything gets loaded, I will give him the rules and let him handle the unloaded rifle for a while to make sure he understands. Then I will shoot some reactive targets to reinforce how powerful and potentially dangerous firearms can be if not respected. I will load a single round and let him shoot it while I am hands on, teaching him how to aim and use the safety and proper trigger discipline. If I feel that he is absorbing it, I will let him do some plinking with me right there but hands off. Then I will show him what a large caliber firearm can do and let him know that if he learns the fundamentals, someday I will let him try it. Then I will show him how to clean the .22. That should be enough for the first lesson.

 

[cekim]

the unloaded rifle

No such thing

In my house, prior to going to the range, we spent a while (weeks) discussing "the rules" with random pop-quizzes...

"Are my guns loaded?" - "Yes, Dad"
"What if I unload them, what should you assume?" - "They are loaded, Dad"
"Ok, how about now?" - "Still loaded, Dad"

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

But Paw thats too much to remember in one day

View attachment 5462

Thanks to you all, I am going to forward the link to this thread to his father so he can discuss / prepare him and reinforce the fact that this is fun but serious as well. We will take a .22 to the range and before anything gets loaded, I will give him the rules and let him handle the unloaded rifle for a while to make sure he understands. Then I will shoot some reactive targets to reinforce how powerful and potentially dangerous firearms can be if not respected. I will load a single round and let him shoot it while I am hands on, teaching him how to aim and use the safety and proper trigger discipline. If I feel that he is absorbing it, I will let him do some plinking with me right there but hands off. Then I will show him what a large caliber firearm can do and let him know that if he learns the fundamentals, someday I will let him try it. Then I will show him how to clean the .22. That should be enough for the first lesson.

 

[Taipan01]

I roll with two different sets of rules. I started all my sons off when they were between 4 and 5 (youngest is now 11, oldest is 18) with live 22's. They have been taught how to handle real firearms safely by both myself and "the old man". At the range they are totally focused on what they are doing. Absolute zero horsing around, as I have zero tolerance for it. At home, that's a different story. There still are enough Nerf guns and Supersoakers kicking around to outfit a platoon. If I'm hit by a stray shot well then all bets are off and turn around is fair play. Sometimes I'll Pearl Harbor them from the deck with water balloons and then a ground assault with supersoakers. I bagged the oldest last weekend when he was cleaning the car for his date, of course his dates revolve around the times when I fill the tank. Yup, another sneak attack, got him five times with an aerial bombardment from the roof before he figured out my plan of attack. Was a hell of a sight watching my fat ass sliding down from the top of a wet roof after he retaliated with the hose. An effective counter strike I must say. They have video games where 90% are shoot'em ups weather it's beasties or humans, it's "let christ sort them out", at least that's what I say when I'm assaulting Normandy beach and I'm being chastised by the smallest for "your blowing holes in everybody". For those that make them treat toys as the real thing, fine, your call, but please do that for me on the paintball range or bring your defensive driving course with you on the bumper cars. You gotta let kids be kids (and that includes me) when the time is right and if you feel that you can assume the reponsibilities of teaching them the difference of when that time is not right, more power to you. The whole thing is really on you, not them.

 

[Arioch]

He handles the airsoft the way he does because he thinks it's a toy and because no one has every taught him about gun safety. People aren't born knowing this stuff it's learned. Try teaching him and see how it goes.

Quite true. While growing up, my girls had there toy water pistols and such, but when it was time to start them on real eqipment, the rule was that they had to treat toy knives, bows and guns as though they wqere real to show me they understood the training I had given them. It was a way for them to show me they were serious about going to the next step with real thing. They're in their early 20s now, and have their class "A" permits.

 

[Polibious]

BPM, your right. For some reason I thought a previous post mentioned Eddy. I might have gotten my threads confused.

"Stop don't touch..."

But, its still ineffective (according to the research I've read).

 

[Kalahari]

I roll with two different sets of rules. I started all my sons off when they were between 4 and 5 (youngest is now 11, oldest is 18) with live 22's. They have been taught how to handle real firearms safely by both myself and "the old man". At the range they are totally focused on what they are doing. Absolute zero horsing around, as I have zero tolerance for it. At home, that's a different story. There still are enough Nerf guns and Supersoakers kicking around to outfit a platoon. If I'm hit by a stray shot well then all bets are off and turn around is fair play. Sometimes I'll Pearl Harbor them from the deck with water balloons and then a ground assault with supersoakers. I bagged the oldest last weekend when he was cleaning the car for his date, of course his dates revolve around the times when I fill the tank. Yup, another sneak attack, got him five times with an aerial bombardment from the roof before he figured out my plan of attack. Was a hell of a sight watching my fat ass sliding down from the top of a wet roof after he retaliated with the hose. An effective counter strike I must say. They have video games where 90% are shoot'em ups weather it's beasties or humans, it's "let christ sort them out", at least that's what I say when I'm assaulting Normandy beach and I'm being chastised by the smallest for "your blowing holes in everybody". For those that make them treat toys as the real thing, fine, your call, but please do that for me on the paintball range or bring your defensive driving course with you on the bumper cars. You gotta let kids be kids (and that includes me) when the time is right and if you feel that you can assume the reponsibilities of teaching them the difference of when that time is not right, more power to you. The whole thing is really on you, not them.

One of the better posts I've read on NES. I wish more people realized there's room for fun at home while maintaining maturity at the range.

 

[cekim]

I wish more people realized there's room for fun at home while maintaining maturity at the range.

+1 have to avoid confusing fear for respect... Take away the "fun" and many kids will have "the fun" when you aren't around... Not good...

 

[KMaurer]

I suspect that a big part of the problem you observed is that he's got an airsoft gun that he considers to be nothing more than a toy, a view that his parents have enforced by their lack of safety enforcement. I'd skip the airsoft as a potential teaching tool and jump directly to a .22, drawing a sharp distinction between it and toys (without mentioning the airsoft). If he accepts the distinction and follows safe practices with the .22, I might then try to get him to treat the airsoft in a safer manner. The critical thing is that he recognizes the distinction between real guns and toy and behaves accordingly. Fine tuning that line for things like airsoft guns an BB guns is important, but much less so.

Ken

 

[bpm990d]

BPM, your right. For some reason I thought a previous post mentioned Eddy. I might have gotten my threads confused.

"Stop don't touch..."

But, its still ineffective (according to the research I've read).

FWIW, NRA quotes one study published in a peer reviewed journal.

I have done no research into the efficacy of it. My guess is that it's probably about as effective as DARE or MADD.

I do know that accidental shootings among yuts not engaged in criminal enterprises have been going down. Not sure if that has to do with kids knowing to leave them alone, or more adults supervising/keeping them inaccessible.