168 grain Garand load

headednorth

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Looking to work up a new load for the M1 using a Hornady 168gr hpbt and IMR 4895. Manuals I have that list service rifle data either list powders I dont have or different bullet weights.

Poking around online I came up with 45-48 grains of imr 4895 loaded to 3.300". Same data can be used for Varget apparently.

Looking to shoot prone/sitting/offhand at 100-200 yards, keeping groups as small as possible without beating up the rifle. Just wanted to run rhe data by people to make sure its in the ballpark.

Secondary question that came up while researching...

My load for a 150 grain round is 44 grains of imr 4895. This I remember being the starting load which ended up giving me the tightest group. (I forget what the max of that trial was) So lighter bullet with a lighter charge weight than the 168 data. Odd, no?

Should I bump it up? Cycles fine, any accuracy issues are probably me and not the load I would think. Only issue I recall is I usually shoot out to 100yds and when I shot at 200 at a different club, I had to crank up on the sight a lot more than I had expected to.

Thanks.
 
You can load most of the M1 garand safe burn rate powders from 42-47 grains with out much problem.
I used IMR for a while and the only reason I stopped was I found Varget plus IMR does not meter as well in my Hornady powder measure.
If your only running to 200 yards all you need to do is find the minimum charge that functions and shows good accuracy...
Looking at my notes looks like 44 grains was that spot for me.
So far all my M1s and every bullet I tried seems to like that lower middle charge weight.
 
Hornady 7th manual page 479
M1 garand 30-06 load data
168 grain A max and BTHP #30501
IMR 4895 starting load 39.6 grains max 47.1 grains

As for your come ups... your basic come up from 100 yard zero is 2moa or 2 clicks up +/- ? Clicks for lighting, eye sight , target contrast and a host of other things.

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Hornady 7th manual page 479
M1 garand 30-06 load data
168 grain A max and BTHP #30501
IMR 4895 starting load 39.6 grains max 47.1 grains

As for your come ups... your basic come up from 100 yard zero is 2moa or 2 clicks up +/- ? Clicks for lighting, eye sight , target contrast and a host of other things.

My no wind good light well rested eyes is 10 clicks up for 200 yards with my current load. At the end of the last match I was at 15 clicks up....go figure.
Good reason to keep a log book and have a base zero for your load.
 
Thanks, I forget how much I had to come up, but I was expecting the two or so clicks and it was quite a bit more iirc. (Could of been just me or maybe Im mis-remembering it, this was last year.) Thought maybe the 44 grain load was dropping more than the typical loads I see around online which seem to be around 46-47 grains for a 150 grain bullet.
 
My no wind good light well rested eyes is 10 clicks up for 200 yards with my current load. At the end of the last match I was at 15 clicks up....go figure.
Good reason to keep a log book and have a base zero for your load.

Not a bad idea taking notes. I have no real idea where mine are. I used whatever the basic zero was that I found online, adjusted for my load. Shot at pembroke last year and iirc, had to go up quite a bit past the expected two clicks. Im going to start writing stuff down.
 
Not a bad idea taking notes. I have no real idea where mine are. I used whatever the basic zero was that I found online, adjusted for my load. Shot at pembroke last year and iirc, had to go up quite a bit past the expected two clicks. Im going to start writing stuff down.

Per load data on hand there is not a huge difference between H4895 and IMR 4895
So that said the velocities and charge weights are pretty darn close... close enough for rough calculations.
Hornady 150 grain FMJ 7th manual has minimum charges listed at 2400fps and all but 3 powders max out at 2600 fps.

At 2400 fps drop from 100 yard zero to 200 is 6.2" or 3moa.
2600fps 5.1" or 2.4moa SO what do you do.

Come up 2 moa from your 100 yard zero and see what happens...dial in from there.
M2 ball is "hot" compared to what we load. 2740fps
@ 78' from the muzzle.. this will get you closer to the 2moa up from 100 yard zero but you will need a different powder to run it that fast per load data out there today. The drop at 2740 let's call that muzzle velocity is 4.5".... It's all fun find a load that you like, crony it and log your info. I like to use luggage tags on the sling swivels and keep track of ammo and sight settings...
 
My pet load for CMP matches:

168 gr Sierra Match King or Nosler Custom Comp (I prefer the Nosler but both better than I can shoot...)
Varget 46.5 grains
3.30" overall length (I see recommendations for 2.29" or less, but this runs fine for me)
CCI #200 primers
I will use either HXP or Lapua brass

Seems to run a little smoother than HXP (Greek surplus) M2 Ball ammo, definitely more accurate. mac1911 mentions M2 Ball being a bit hot. This ammo in my CMP Special would shoot a clean slow fire prone stage if I only had the skills to do it. I use a Harrell benchrest powder measure, and the Varget throws perfectly consistent charges.

Two suggestions for not beating up your Garand: 1) Don't shoot commercial non-M2 loads, such as .30-06 ammo for hunting, and 2) make sure your Op Rod Spring is in good shape. Orion7 makes good ones, and they are relatively cheap.
 
My M1 load is 168 grain SMK or SGK with Win 748. Not where I can get to my notes, but from memory (and, therefore, not Gospel) is 46.0 grains. Win 748 meters like water.
 
Some day I will revisit my garand loads and,might even do the OCW method....if I ever have time[rolleyes]

I say this....if you can hold sub 2" groups with iron sights load development might help.
I really don't think any decent bullet and your M1 safe burn rate powders in the 40-47 grain range will produce bad ammo. Certainly well enough for 10 ring.... I can ring out 2-2.5moa prone supported on a good day... holding the black prone is more my average....that's a 13" black blob at 200 yards.
 
My pet load for CMP matches:

168 gr Sierra Match King or Nosler Custom Comp (I prefer the Nosler but both better than I can shoot...)
Varget 46.5 grains
3.30" overall length (I see recommendations for 2.29" or less, but this runs fine for me)
CCI #200 primers
I will use either HXP or Lapua brass

Seems to run a little smoother than HXP (Greek surplus) M2 Ball ammo, definitely more accurate. mac1911 mentions M2 Ball being a bit hot. This ammo in my CMP Special would shoot a clean slow fire prone stage if I only had the skills to do it. I use a Harrell benchrest powder measure, and the Varget throws perfectly consistent charges.

Two suggestions for not beating up your Garand: 1) Don't shoot commercial non-M2 loads, such as .30-06 ammo for hunting, and 2) make sure your Op Rod Spring is in good shape. Orion7 makes good ones, and they are relatively cheap.

guess that answers my question as to whether or not i have to use 'military' primers in my reloads for my garand. I just read somewhere else that they have a 'harder' shell on them and therefore prevent against slamfires. i've personally never seen a slamfire or heard of one actually happening, but i'm certain they're possible if given the right conditions i suppose.

i just primed up my first 260 cases (100 Remington and 160 HXP) and am getting ready to load, but imagine my dismay when, after having loaded all my brass with CCI 200's that I was supposed to use 'military' primers. i was just going to shoot them as is anyway, ftr...but looks like i'll continue using them.
 
i have a bunch of powders to try (Varget, IMR4895, Hodgdon4895, Winchester 748, IMR4064 and IMR XBR8208, and a fresh new chronograph...)

just found out i'm going overseas again (2nd time this year) for the beginning of the summer, but should hopefully have a nice workup done by the July CMP Garand match.
 
guess that answers my question as to whether or not i have to use 'military' primers in my reloads for my garand. I just read somewhere else that they have a 'harder' shell on them and therefore prevent against slamfires. i've personally never seen a slamfire or heard of one actually happening, but i'm certain they're possible if given the right conditions i suppose.

i just primed up my first 260 cases (100 Remington and 160 HXP) and am getting ready to load, but imagine my dismay when, after having loaded all my brass with CCI 200's that I was supposed to use 'military' primers. i was just going to shoot them as is anyway, ftr...but looks like i'll continue using them.
They are supposed to be harder to handle the concerns around the M1's free floating firing pin (like an SKS). I always double check that my primers are seated flush on each case and not protruding at all. FWIW I'm using CCI # 200 as well. No slam fires so far.

If you want to pay more for the milspec, go for it, but I think if you have a clean rifle and a flush primer it's not a concern. I read a few CMP threads and I think one guy said he had one or two slams, but he didn't decrimp HXP so the primer might not have been flush.

Have some IMR4064 on the way this week. Going to try some Varget and 4064 and see how they compare to IMR4895 that I have been using. A few CMP threads seemed to suggest Varget > IMR4064 > IMR4895. Probably depends on the rifle.
 
guess that answers my question as to whether or not i have to use 'military' primers in my reloads for my garand. I just read somewhere else that they have a 'harder' shell on them and therefore prevent against slamfires. i've personally never seen a slamfire or heard of one actually happening, but i'm certain they're possible if given the right conditions i suppose.

i just primed up my first 260 cases (100 Remington and 160 HXP) and am getting ready to load, but imagine my dismay when, after having loaded all my brass with CCI 200's that I was supposed to use 'military' primers. i was just going to shoot them as is anyway, ftr...but looks like i'll continue using them.


slamfires happen. my 458 socom did it one day at the ground in front of me (calls for large pistol primer). assume it possible any time you have a bolt release.
 
They are supposed to be harder to handle the concerns around the M1's free floating firing pin (like an SKS). I always double check that my primers are seated flush on each case and not protruding at all. FWIW I'm using CCI # 200 as well. No slam fires so far.

If you want to pay more for the milspec, go for it, but I think if you have a clean rifle and a flush primer it's not a concern. I read a few CMP threads and I think one guy said he had one or two slams, but he didn't decrimp HXP so the primer might not have been flush.

Have some IMR4064 on the way this week. Going to try some Varget and 4064 and see how they compare to IMR4895 that I have been using. A few CMP threads seemed to suggest Varget > IMR4064 > IMR4895. Probably depends on the rifle.

That's just it, they're all different and like different things. I'm going to be loading for a lot of different rifles coming up, so i'll make use of the powder one way or another. Swiss, Mosins, M1's, M1A's, 1903's, Rem700...will definitely be testing the limits of my chronograph, lol.

Also, I was under the impression that the HXP didn't have to be decrimped from the CMP forums. i just loaded up 160 Cases without issue so far. Lake City and Federal on the other hand...

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slamfires happen. my 458 socom did it one day at the ground in front of me (calls for large pistol primer). assume it possible any time you have a bolt release.

pretty sure i'd have to change my shorts after that. that's a BIG bullet to get surprised with!
 
That's just it, they're all different and like different things. I'm going to be loading for a lot of different rifles coming up, so i'll make use of the powder one way or another. Swiss, Mosins, M1's, M1A's, 1903's, Rem700...will definitely be testing the limits of my chronograph, lol.

Also, I was under the impression that the HXP didn't have to be decrimped from the CMP forums. i just loaded up 160 Cases without issue so far. Lake City and Federal on the other hand...
The HXP has a light crimp for sure compared to some of the .223 cases I'm using but I'd rather give the reamer a spin or two in the primer pocket for good measure. I'd read of people not touching the pockets, but I do.
 
I would not over think the garand loads. a nice bullet and one of the safe burn rate powders and you should be good to go.
Get a base line of your skills and your rifle first.
If you shoot prone supported and your shots are all over no "load" is really going to help.

Because of my poor skills in off hand my M1 garand with new barrel and well fitted stock and I average 462/500 last year and 459/500 year before that. If I shoot one of my SG garands with gi stock my average is 440s
I struggled to post the score i did on the last match at pembroke 2016 using a CMP service grade 1942 SA and HXP ....IIRC i shot a 437/500 ?
 
Here is another idea for people who want to use a progressive like a Dillon to load for a Garand.
I've used Ramshot TAC in both .223 and .308.

Its small spherical granules meter out VERY VERY well in my Dillon and Lee powder drops.

I've found that my standard deviation with TAC and an auto drop can be in the 15 fps range. Which is fine for 200 yard shooting.

For my long range .308 loads and my most accurate .223 match loads I measure each load and load on a turret. But Tac in an auto drop on a dillon works really well and is easy to load.
 
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So...I took the Springfield Service Grade out yesterday in the drizzle with some H4895/168gn Nosler CC loads I worked up, and to my amazement, the lowest charge rounds yielded the best results at 100yds. I did what I read to do and subtracted a full grain of powder charge from IMR4895 to start with the Hodgdon (43gn on the low end) and worked up to about 45.5 I think...but to my surprise, the 43gn loads were by far the most accurate! With velocities between 2325 and 2400fps, how can this be?
 
I found that when I reduced my powder charge .1gr and seated my bullets an extra .005, my slow prone score went from a 175 to a 199-7x :)

I hope you worked up to those changes gradually. [wink] At 199-7X there's still room for improvment- you might want to spend more time refining that OAL. [laugh]

So...I took the Springfield Service Grade out yesterday in the drizzle with some H4895/168gn Nosler CC loads I worked up, and to my amazement, the lowest charge rounds yielded the best results at 100yds. I did what I read to do and subtracted a full grain of powder charge from IMR4895 to start with the Hodgdon (43gn on the low end) and worked up to about 45.5 I think...but to my surprise, the 43gn loads were by far the most accurate! With velocities between 2325 and 2400fps, how can this be?

Interesting. Accurate by how much? Single loading? Think those lower velocities would cycle well when loading via enbloc?
 
I actually had the original fixed gas plug in for the first few strings and it was cycling and functioning fine. I didn't put the Schuster adjustable in until I got up closer to 44gn loads.

I have the targets at home and will take some pictures later on when I get back. Funny thing, the accuracy got better again toward the higher end charges, but the 'mid range' loads were all over the place.
 
I found that when I reduced my powder charge .1gr and seated my bullets an extra .005, my slow prone score went from a 175 to a 199-7x :)

.1 grain .....really did you take a moisture reading of your powder also as that will effect the volume and weight of your charge.
Now if you said your average went from 87% to 99% with that little change you found the holy load
[laugh2]
 
I actually had the original fixed gas plug in for the first few strings and it was cycling and functioning fine. I didn't put the Schuster adjustable in until I got up closer to 44gn loads.

I have the targets at home and will take some pictures later on when I get back. Funny thing, the accuracy got better again toward the higher end charges, but the 'mid range' loads were all over the place.

You will find there is a accuracy curve or wave with any load and rifle.
I found the same thing as you that some loads will be accurate at the lower end of charges.
I don't know how to tell you how or why.
From air space in the cartridge case to barrel vibration.
Remember military specs for M2 ball are there to ensure function in many platforms.
Also to ensure a certain ballistic result at X yards.
Basically loaded hot to assure full function in rifles,machine guns and such then having enough energy down range to do some damage.
Target loads especially for 200 yards the only thing that matters is function and accuracy meet at a happy place.
Now I shoot 165 grain cast loads at 200 yards that are running about 1600fps out of my 1903a3 that are 10 ring accurate with out trying BUT I would not want to try and launch them at 300 plus and fight the elevation and wind challenge they present.

As for M1 function.
I run under 40 grains of H4895 with cast loads in my M1 and currently run a 168 nosler with 36 grains in another rifle but that rifle has a brand new gas cylinder and fresh op rod piston and a in spec yet used GI op rod spring. Now I have run light loads in my other rifles one of my most accurate loads was with some 125grain soft points I had. The rifle I used will function on 40 grains 100% but will start to fumble at 39.5 or less.
The most accurate load I tried was 50 grains but not enough to matter once I'm prone and shooting for score...

It's all good. There's no real secrets to loads for the M1 42-47 grains of the "safe" burn rate with 150-168 grain decent bullet should find a sweet spot some where.
This is what I do to confirm a load.
I will 5 3 shot groups at 100 yards then see how each load compares. I can only go on average of the groups as with testing with the M1 with iron sights I'm limited to my skills.
Prone supported with sling on a nice day I can muster up 2moa or less.
 
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.1 grain .....really did you take a moisture reading of your powder also as that will effect the volume and weight of your charge.
Now if you said your average went from 87% to 99% with that little change you found the holy load
[laugh2]

At the next match, don't forget to store your ammo in a cooler to maintain constant temperature. Also you need to conduct a D.O.E. to determine your chamber temperature during a match and then calculate heat transfer to each loaded cartridge so that you can time your shots after loading to have every cartridge at a constant temperature. [smile]

Actually not a complete joke- high end benchrest benefits from such control. IIRC, the long range 50 cal guys might use WC867 powder (from a 20mm!) and preheat it to 130F.v
 
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You can see where toward the middle range of charges the group's spread way out. On the last Target (highest charge of 45.7gn I think) I actually had a tight little group, but it threw me far right and high so bad I wasn't even on paper save for the one shot. Lucky I was using a stand with cardboard backing so I could still see the group. I think I'm going to load up a bunch of the straight 43.0gn load and take that out this week to see if it retains accuracy in the warmer weather coming...minus the rain. My luck, the rain was actually pushing the bullets closer to each other yesterday to make it look like I was shooting better with my first handloads for 30-06.
 
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You can see where toward the middle range of charges the group's spread way out. On the last Target (highest charge of 45.7gn I think) I actually had a tight little group, but it threw me far right and high so bad I wasn't even on paper save for the one shot. Lucky I was using a stand with cardboard backing so I could still see the group. I think I'm going to load up a bunch of the straight 43.0gn load and take that out this week to see if it retains accuracy in the warmer weather coming...minus the rain. My luck, the rain was actually pushing the bullets closer to each other yesterday to make it look like I was shooting better with my first handloads for 30-06.

God bless your eyes if you can even see that target well enough with iron sights to even have anything resembling a group!
How did you test these groups. Did you shoot round robin to spread out the heat effect on the barrel over the shots?

As for the impact shift. It happens sometimes very extreme shifts happen.
 
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I didn't round robin the loads...I guess that would make a lot of sense, but also a little more planning and organization on my part. I'm still really new to the larger caliber bottle neck reloading scene, so there's a lot of room for improvement. I loaded 50 rounds of the 43.0gn batch tonight and will try them out this week some night after work.

Trick is to not see the target, lol. Seriously though...the front sight is all I see when i'm snapping in. I cut the target in half...black squeeze, white freeze (not racist, ftr)...bang. I learned to shoot with old (29yr old) eyes, and I really think it's been to my benefit. The target is always a blur, but I can focus on the front sight post clear as day!
 
I didn't round robin the loads...I guess that would make a lot of sense, but also a little more planning and organization on my part. I'm still really new to the larger caliber bottle neck reloading scene, so there's a lot of room for improvement. I loaded 50 rounds of the 43.0gn batch tonight and will try them out this week some night after work.

Trick is to not see the target, lol. Seriously though...the front sight is all I see when i'm snapping in. I cut the target in half...black squeeze, white freeze (not racist, ftr)...bang. I learned to shoot with old (29yr old) eyes, and I really think it's been to my benefit. The target is always a blur, but I can focus on the front sight post clear as day!

I would try using the SR1 target
Are you shooting from a supported position?
Im pretty new myself as far as reloading and testing loads.
 
I would try using the SR1 target
Are you shooting from a supported position?
Im pretty new myself as far as reloading and testing loads.

+1

There's a website with a pdf of an SR-1 'center'. It prints on a regular 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper. These are all I use for match practice. I figure that if I can't keep it on the letter size paper at 100 yards I better do some work at 50 yards. Hasn't been a problem, thankfully.
 
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