17-year-old arrested in killing of 2 people in Kenosha

You're talking apples and oranges.

Helping others in need of being helped, like disaster response is one thing. Arming myself with weapons and driving to another state to defend someone or some business property to which I have no ties to, is entirely a different game I don't plan to play. Especially when the other players involved are persons who think playing CoD accounts for life experience.

Not apples and oranges. I drove to other states and had no ties to the people I helped in disaster response. The only difference is the type of help.

People’s livelihoods are being razed to the ground. And many of them, their insurance won’t cover the damage. People’s lives are being ruined every night these riots take place. And this kid was trying to help those people. Sure, he likely had delusions of grandeur, but he stepped up to help. It doesn’t matter if he drove across state lines to help people he doesn’t know.

Unless my back is to the wall with the laws as they presently stand, the last thing I plan to do is put myself into a position my life becomes a legal nightmare.

Well, that’s you. Your unwillingness to help those who need help does not mean this kid is looking for murder.
 
This is definitely going to be interesting to watch. Right now i'm leaning towards self defense. I honestly don't care if he was in another state. I could leave my front door in MA and walk 500 yards I was in RI. They keep pulling down a Go fund me for this kid. What they don't want to see the size of the pot? What was George Floyd's total?
 
The only difference is the type of help.

And there's the crux of our difference of opinion.

Your unwillingness to help those who need help does not mean this kid is looking for murder

I never said I wasn't unwilling to help those who need help, but I do believe you have to pick your battles. Curious are you planning to fly by yourself to Kenosha today and stand watch at gas station or car dealership? I suspect not, but if you are, then I tip my hat to you.
 
Unless my back is to the wall with the laws as they presently stand, the last thing I plan to do is put myself into a position my life becomes a legal nightmare. OTOH if someone is handing out "Get out of Jail Free" cards and I didn't have children to potentially leave fatherless (I'm a single parent BTW), then I'm happy to enter the fray.
Is that you Jose?
 
Those videos actually helped me decide that I don't actually need a .300blk and i'll be perfectly fine w/5.56

I used to denigrate 5.56 too when I was in the Army; it was a common debate back then, soldiers bitching about the lethality of 5.56. We didn't really know; it was the nineties and few of us had been in a gunfight.

Then the DC sniper attacks happened, and I conceded defeat. 5.56 is clearly a well-designed round. I don't own anything chambered for it, but that's not the round's fault.
 
This kids life will come down to one simple question and answer; “Why were you there?”

His answer and any corroborating proof there of, will either sink or save him. He’s f***ed IMO, and will be an old man by the time he sees how America turned out.
Can they, however, get 12 jurors to agree?

I'm thinking they can't....
 
I never said I wasn't unwilling to help those who need help, but I do believe you have to pick your battles. Curious are you planning to fly by yourself to Kenosha today and stand watch at gas station or car dealership? I suspect not, but if you are, then I tip my hat to you.

I’m not the one questioning the kids motives for crossing state lines or saying he’s not helping people.

If you want to measure your balls against mine, let’s go. I’ve stepped up and engaged in combat for the country. I now have a family to look after and will not be dropping everything to help in Kenosha, no. But I tip my hat to this kid for doing so, which you do not seem to be doing, despite you saying you’d tip your hat to me.
 
You're talking apples and oranges.

Helping others in need of being helped, like disaster response is one thing. Arming myself with weapons and driving to another state to defend someone or some business property to which I have no ties to, is entirely a different game I don't plan to play. Especially when the other players involved are those who think playing CoD accounts for life experience.

Unless my back is to the wall with the laws as they presently stand, the last thing I plan to do is put myself into a position my life becomes a legal nightmare. OTOH if someone is handing out "Get out of Jail Free" cards and I didn't have children to potentially leave fatherless (I'm a single parent BTW), then I'm happy to enter the fray.

Then let us be happy not everyone is as self absorbed as you.

This kid did nothing different than the nations patriots heeding the call to arms during that BLM fiasco a few years back.

And before you defensively retort allow me point out my situation is parallel to yours in that I too have a lot to lose. You won’t see me doing what this kid did either. Where we part ways is I respect his sacrifice where you and others here seem to not...
 
$50 says there's going to be a lot of "Rittenhouse"-ing going on before this year is out.....and likely well into next year.

Leftists better wake up.....they've pushed their absurdities and violence much too far and there's going to be lots of retaliation on the horizon.
 
$50 says there's going to be a lot of "Rittenhouse"-ing going on before this year is out.....and likely well into next year.

Leftists better wake up.....they've pushed their absurdities and violence much too far and there's going to be lots of retaliation on the horizon.
You and I see eye to eye alot Uzi - This is just the "shot heard around the world" in terms of this civil unrest going on. We will see lots of gunfire in this war but it's mainly being faught with iPhones and MSM.
 
I never said I wasn't unwilling to help those who need help, but I do believe you have to pick your battles. Curious are you planning to fly by yourself to Kenosha today and stand watch at gas station or car dealership? I suspect not, but if you are, then I tip my hat to you.

What a stupid post. Firstly, the kid lived just over the border like 25 minutes away. This whole “crossed states line” garbage is just that. Garbage. So what? Somehow a state border is some magic barrier you aren’t allowed to cross?

Secondly, you don’t need to do exactly what someone else does to be able to support it. That’s absurd and irrational.

Lastly, no, you didn’t say you weren’t unwilling to help. You didn’t have to. You condemned someone for doing so which says enough.
 
NYT post a timeline splicing videos together and while they never say justified or self defense, they point out that every shot is in reaction to a direct threat or attack and the comments blew up with everyone calling it the worst reporting they have ever seen.


View: https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809?s=21
 
What a stupid post. Firstly, the kid lived just over the border like 25 minutes away. This whole “crossed states line” garbage is just that. Garbage. So what? Somehow a state border is some magic barrier you aren’t allowed to cross?

Secondly, you don’t need to do exactly what someone else does to be able to support it. That’s absurd and irrational.

Lastly, no, you didn’t say you weren’t unwilling to help. You didn’t have to. You condemned someone for doing so which says enough.


It's even less than that. It's roughly 10 miles to Kenosha, and the kid lived in a town that is literally on the border. Look at the map and see where Antioch and Kenosha are relative to each other.

Honestly, I usually drive farther than that to get to work.
 

View: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298833015548739587

View: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298851037982334976


View: https://twitter.com/JasonSamfield/status/1298858585695432706

View: https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1298873436102565888


So lefty was illegally carrying a gun as a prohibited person with a domestic violence conviction.

If he's a white supremacist, I think he's doing it wrong.
That photo and his interview a few hours before the incident is probably going to sink the DA's case that the kid was there to commit premeditated murder rather than trying to help & protect the community.

View: https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1298698799670591490
 
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I’m not the one questioning the kids motives for crossing state lines or saying he’s not helping people.

If you want to measure your balls against mine, let’s go. I’ve stepped up and engaged in combat for the country. I now have a family to look after and will not be dropping everything to help in Kenosha, no. But I tip my hat to this kid for doing so, which you do not seem to be doing, despite you saying you’d tip your hat to me.

A 17yo left his state of residence and proceeded to a neighboring state to immerse himself into a volatile situation while openly carrying a firearm, to defend someone else's property, i.e. a commercial business from persons unknown to him Hell bent on rioting and looting. Is/was he ethically or morally wrong for doing so? No. Am I questioning his motives? No, because no one know what they are/were. However I think it within reason to question and comment he didn't think his plan/s through, which is what I did.

As for comparing ball size, I have no interest in playing that game. You win! For myself a physical deformity kept me from fulfilling any sort of combat-related role, but I have tried to serve in other ways, but back to you, Thank you for your service.
 
Then let us be happy not everyone is as self absorbed as you.

This kid did nothing different than the nations patriots heeding the call to arms during that BLM fiasco a few years back.

And before you defensively retort allow me point out my situation is parallel to yours in that I too have a lot to lose. You won’t see me doing what this kid did either. Where we part ways is I respect his sacrifice where you and others here seem to not...

I never said I didn't respect his sacrifice, did I? I believe the only comment I made was in regards to him not thinking things through...
 
Folks, and those you that say that this young man was a "WannaBe' Cop. Really need to examine your thinking process. NO WHERE in any State or The United States Constitution does it provide for the POLICE. On the sate level a County Sheriff ( which is derived from the OLD ENGLISH Shire Reeve) which is his duty is bring those wrong doers to the court. The Citizen is supposed to be the policing force. What you have here is the Various States and Cities are refusing to allow their hired personnel to do as they were sworn to do, It comes back to the duty of the citizen.
You better get used to this, as more of it is sure happen. Those of you don't have the fortitude for it, stay in your basement.
 
What a stupid post. Firstly, the kid lived just over the border like 25 minutes away. This whole “crossed states line” garbage is just that. Garbage. So what? Somehow a state border is some magic barrier you aren’t allowed to cross?

Secondly, you don’t need to do exactly what someone else does to be able to support it. That’s absurd and irrational.

Lastly, no, you didn’t say you weren’t unwilling to help. You didn’t have to. You condemned someone for doing so which says enough.

Again, I never condemned him. You're taking comments out of context and implying I said something I didn't.
 
What an effing shit show this has become huh? Initial thoughts are, this kid probably should have just stayed home. Not a great look that he is technically a minor. But it’s encouraging seeing earlier videos of him with other law abiding citizens trying to protect their city from being burned. Even saw a video with cops thanking them for aiding in trying to deter destruction.

then you see reports of him potentially
Shooting someone before the attacks happened. Anyone confirm that? I haven’t seen it yet. But I know homeboy with the red shirt that was spewing racial slurs ended up paying the ultimate price in front of the car dealership. Makes me think he was an instigator in attacking those that were armed.

also not a good look that this kid fled back to his home. I saw another video that showed him, what looked like trying to surrender possibly even saying ‘I just shot someone’

and apparently the ‘paramedic’ goon who promptly had his arm evacuated, who had the handgun, was illegally carrying.

I wonder how this will play out in the justice system. You think CCW lawyers are quick to jump in?

IMO there's not enough information being publicly shared. Sure, we're seen some videos of him running away, but I'm very curious to see what transpired leading up to the events in question. All we have AFAIK is that he was protecting a business from looting. Would it make much difference in whether he was in right to shoot the persons chasing him? No, because he was in fear for his life.

What I am most curious to learn is that it's coming out the owner of the business sought protection from the potential of looters and hired persons. IMO if this 17yo was "hired" to provide protection, then this will add weight to his favor.
 
Those videos actually helped me decide that I don't actually need a .300blk and i'll be perfectly fine w/5.56
I don't know what the kid was using for ammo, but my wife keeps her home-defense Mini 14 loaded with M193 55 grain ball (Federal brand). Before I purchased my then-6-year-old daughter's first .22 rifle, I took her to the range. I set up a water jug about 75 yards away and shot it with a 53 grain Hornady VMax .223 round from my bolt-action Savage Axis. The jug literally exploded and water flew in all directions. Those small-caliber high velocity rifle rounds create a very ugly wound. I can only imagine what a .220 Swift would have done!
 
IMO there's not enough information being publicly shared. Sure, we're seen some videos of him running away, but I'm very curious to see what transpired leading up to the events in question. All we have AFAIK is that he was protecting a business from looting. Would it make much difference in whether he was in right to shoot the persons chasing him? No, because he was in fear for his life.

What I am most curious to learn is that it's coming out the owner of the business sought protection from the potential of looters and hired persons. IMO if this 17yo was "hired" to provide protection, then this will add weight to his favor.

This is what courts are for. And they will certainly do their best to figure all that out.

Alas, it won't matter. This is the post-truth environment. People already have their minds made up. Guaranteed, even tomorrow, someone here will still try to claim there was a molotov thrown. Evidence matters very little.
 
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