1911 recoil spring weights

[terraformer]

So, I have a stainless colt 1911 series 80 I want to use +P in. I am pretty sure the steel is up to the task but I need to tweak the recoil spring. I have no idea what spring is in there now but my understanding is 16 lbs is optimal for ball and 18-19 is optimal for +P.

Does anyone know if I have the weights right and any thoughts on the topic? If I use a lyman gauge hooked on the trigger guard and pull on the slide will I get a reasonably accurate idea what weight that spring is?

 

[terraformer]

I also would love to know what folks think about the variable power springs. I see how they work (multiple coil lengths) but what isn't clear is are the listed weights the max weight, average weight or min weight? I suspect Max but it isn't clear to me.

 

[Sir_Macadoo]

get the recoil spring calibration pack available from Wolff. Then test them out and see what performs best. Too strong a recoil spring and you will have stove pipes or other jams, too weak and you may have failure to feed and/or batter the crap out of the slide, slide stop and frame.

#18 or #20 would be a good place to start for a government with +P ammo.

I have no experience with the variable load springs. Id be interested to learn more myself.

 

[M1911]

Get springs of different weights. Load up a magazine and shoot it. If the slide is cycling fully and the discharged cartridges are landing 5-10 feet away, you are good to go. Landing farther away? Try a stiffer spring. Landing closer or cycling problems? try a lighter spring.

 

[Sir_Macadoo]

oh, and regarding your testing of the spring weight in the gun - that may not tell you much. The recoil spring is pushing the slide forward, with help from friction of the slide/frame fit, the mainspring pressing the hammer forward, and all the series 80 do-dads.

If you want to check the recoil spring in vitro, as it were, you would have to understand the frictional and other spring forces. You could strip the slide and frame and check with just the slide moving on the bare frame with a recoil spring installed. If you have known weight, you can try to compress the spring in a jig of some kind to truly measure its strength.

 

[terraformer]

So it looks like the way to go is to grab a wolf extra power kit (variable or std) and a 16 lb spring.
Variable Extra Power: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=164528
Std extra power: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=131784

Here is what I found from wolff re: Colts.

VARIABLE POWER RECOIL SPRINGS - .45 ACP

Reduced Power...: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, & 15 Lb.
Factory Standard.: 16.5 Lb.
Extra Power........: 17.5, 18.5, 20, & 22 Lb.

and

Reduced Power...: 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 Lb.
Factory Standard.: 16 Lb.
Extra Power........: 17, 18.5, 20, 22, 23, 24, 26, & 28 Lb

Both for .45 ACP.

BTW: The pats suck... WTF is going on with this game???

 

[Remsport Mfg]

18# is standard if the gun ejects and feeds with +P and an 18# spring leave it alone . You could go to 20# but it may not be needed.

 

[38supermatt]

not 45 discussion, but i shoot a 1911 SVI in 38super and use a 7lb spring, using a 115 & 121 gr bullets, pushing into the 1400fps range
the heavier springs in the 1911s seem only to be to force the bullets into the chamber because the feed ramps aren't cut and polished at the ideal angles or reloads aren't loaded correctly for the gun. It's more of a forcing a square peg in a round hole. I've gone as low as a 5 pound spring, but the gun wouldn't consistently peel off the top round if it was loaded in a 28 round mag.
The lighter the springs you use, the less the muzzle flip you'll notice, if your gun is set up correctly, you will feel more of a shock to your arms, so it's a trade off.
Variable power springs, I didn't like them when I used them. But then again, I'm looking for gun back on target for the next shot more than absorbing the recoil.

But for reference, I shot a 10 lber in 40 and a 12 in 45 with USPSA major loads, which I believe are at or over +p specs

 

[dcmdon]

get the recoil spring calibration pack available from Wolff. Then test them out and see what performs best. Too strong a recoil spring and you will have stove pipes or other jams, too weak and you may have failure to feed and/or batter the crap out of the slide, slide stop and frame.

#18 or #20 would be a good place to start for a government with +P ammo.

I have no experience with the variable load springs. Id be interested to learn more myself.

I can't agree more. I bought the extra power multipack for my Les Baer Premier II Gov't that I use competitively and for plinking. It was throwing brass 20 ft so I knew I was getting too much slide speed with basic WWB from Walmart. I went up until I had reliability problems, then went down one.

One side benefit is that I'm back on targe much faster as the slide isn't battering against a bottomed out spring.

I've been thinking of loading some powder puff loads to try for a local steel match. The reduced power calibration pack is the ticket for that.

Don

p.s. They have a master pack that goes from 9# all the way to 22# for $70. I should have gotten that.

 

[dcmdon]

18# is standard if the gun ejects and feeds with +P and an 18# spring leave it alone . You could go to 20# but it may not be needed.

Remsport - you obviously know more about 1911s than I do, but I thought 16# was standard for a Gov't and 18 was standard for Commander.

Don

 

[drgrant]

But for reference, I shot a 10 lber in 40 and a 12 in 45 with USPSA major loads, which I believe are at or over +p specs

Major is what, 165 or 175 PF.... ? I forget. In .45 ACP with a 230 gr FMJ round, those would be "sub commercial" fart loads, not anything approaching +P. 800 fps with a 230 gets you like, 183 PF, and with most powders that's nowhere near +P territory. +P is more likely to be something cruising along in the mid 900s or so or higher, depending on powder.

-Mike

 

[scottb]

not 45 discussion, but i shoot a 1911 SVI in 38super and use a 7lb spring, using a 115 & 121 gr bullets, pushing into the 1400fps range
the heavier springs in the 1911s seem only to be to force the bullets into the chamber because the feed ramps aren't cut and polished at the ideal angles or reloads aren't loaded correctly for the gun. It's more of a forcing a square peg in a round hole. I've gone as low as a 5 pound spring, but the gun wouldn't consistently peel off the top round if it was loaded in a 28 round mag.
The lighter the springs you use, the less the muzzle flip you'll notice, if your gun is set up correctly, you will feel more of a shock to your arms, so it's a trade off.
Variable power springs, I didn't like them when I used them. But then again, I'm looking for gun back on target for the next shot more than absorbing the recoil.

But for reference, I shot a 10 lber in 40 and a 12 in 45 with USPSA major loads, which I believe are at or over +p specs

The key to 38supermatt's post is that the recoil spring weight does not significantly retard slide movement to the rear. The 1911 fires from a locked breech. It will fire with no recoil spring. The recoil spring does nothing more than redirect the force of energy in the opposite direction to feed the next round into the chamber from the magazine. I've fired thousands of 40S&W 180 grain rounds at 1050 fps (when the power factor was 175) with a 10 pound recoil spring. These velocities are in line with factory loads that I actually chrono'd - not what the advertising claimed. The pistol has at least 75000 (75 thousand) rounds through it and frame exhibits no signs of battering or significant wear. This is a competition gun that I did a lot of work on that 38supermatt alluded to (feedramp polish, magazine tuning, extractor tuning, ejector tuning) so it would feed effortlessly with the lightest recoil spring I could use. And as 38supermatt said, this keeps the muzzle flip down substantially.

If I had to bet my life on a gun that would have to operate in the mud and snow, I'd run a heavier recoil spring but not because it's better for gun wear. You could probably make the case that a really heavy recoil spring could reduce reliability.

 

[Remsport Mfg]

18 is the old Mil-spec standard for 230 gr ball. In the more modern guns 16 has become a newer standard, however I always start with 18 unless the ammo is somthing other the 230 ball or a non- 45acp caliber. I always start with 18 in a commander also and 22 in an officer.
Most gov 1911 in 45acp using 230gr ball and an 18# just run better in our guns.