2018 / 2019 Winter Warrior Postal Match

[mac1911]

I have a note at home regarding a Guinea-matic load. I'm usually in that 46.5 grn Varget range.

Spent Sunday wrestling with the boiler- couldn't get service for a day or two, so F it, did it myself. Had to drive to Auburn for one part and Gardner to get the other. Hopefully next weekend I'll get to the range. If I run some TMK's that I made for Vermont but didn't shoot- they are dynamite in my NM Garand clone.

I will be running some 170 grain fast bullets I found in the Brass Karma I picked up few weeks ago.
Also there was a handful of aol 174 grain 308s . They could be pulldowned M1 or something else. I did not even look to see if they where hollow point?
I will run 10 of those through garand and 03a4 clone
Pushing them to about 2500FPS which is about what M118 runs?

 

[daekken]

Keep some snow in your freezer so you can toss it on the ground at your range- just in case the temps are above freezing.

It's actually a running joke among friends and family that my birthday is cursed--I had more than one birthday party as a kid ruined due to snowstorms. One year my mom had to make everyone PB&J since no pizza place in town would deliver in a Nor'Easter. If I can avoid the flu or something (happened two years ago during a b-day trip in VT--when the hotel lost hot water and it was -4° outside), I'll call it a win.

Getting over a cold right now as it is, so hopefully that's "out of the way." My self-purchased B-Day present will hopefully be here by this weekend

 

[majspud]

Hope to play; tomorrow if not today.

t

 

[daekken]

Going back through the thread looks like I've got for rifles:

M1917 - 4 targets (2 trips)
91/30 - 1 target (1 trip)
K98 - 1 target (1 trip)
Lee-Enfield - 2 targets (1 trip)

So for true milsurps that leaves my SKS and my M1s. Looks like my 91s with the M1917 were using 168gr instead of 150; I might try the necksized brass I prepped over the weekend with the 168s and give it another go. This week I might do the SKS and leave the M1 for last. So far my best is only 91, tied between the Lee-Enfield and first M1917 trip. Guess I'm slipping in my old age.

 

[mac1911]

Going back through the thread looks like I've got for rifles:

M1917 - 4 targets (2 trips)
91/30 - 1 target (1 trip)
K98 - 1 target (1 trip)
Lee-Enfield - 2 targets (1 trip)

So for true milsurps that leaves my SKS and my M1s. Looks like my 91s with the M1917 were using 168gr instead of 150; I might try the necksized brass I prepped over the weekend with the 168s and give it another go. This week I might do the SKS and leave the M1 for last. So far my best is only 91, tied between the Lee-Enfield and first M1917 trip. Guess I'm slipping in my old age.

Don’t kid yourself 90s are very good scores. Just look at some of the results from cmp matches even the bigger ones.
If you can put them all in the black for 3 stages that’s a 270/300 . My lack of off hand skills keeps me from breaking out of the 270-280 rut. Also we are shooting several different rifles often.
I bet you donuts to bullets if you shot one rifle all year you would pick up more points and tighter groups.
I have lost more than a few scores because of the difference in triggers between the different rifles.
Going from a well tuned 4.5 garand trigger to my not so great Enfield I loose points for sure.

 

[daekken]

Don’t kid yourself 90s are very good scores. Just look at some of the results from cmp matches even the bigger ones.
If you can put them all in the black for 3 stages that’s a 270/300 . My lack of off hand skills keeps me from breaking out of the 270-280 rut. Also we are shooting several different rifles often.
I bet you donuts to bullets if you shot one rifle all year you would pick up more points and tighter groups.
I have lost more than a few scores because of the difference in triggers between the different rifles.
Going from a well tuned 4.5 garand trigger to my not so great Enfield I loose points for sure.

I have no offhand skills; maybe I should use those 2nd bullets for practice. I have like 240 of them left.

You're definitely right about the different rifles, I think. I don't usually have enough time/ammo on hand for sighters for this postal, so my first three shots or so end up being "sighters." Three eights already starts you with a cap of 94 assuming you hit nothing but 10s the rest of the way. I'm dumb and don't load the same thing each time, just do up whatever powder/projectile combo I feel like at the moment, other than my M1s.

I want to take my match M1 out but it's still in pieces after I disassembled it to do the stock. It's just been sitting on the work bench for a couple of weeks now until I find the courage to do the tung oil.

 

[majspud]

Haven't you all known you shouldn't have done something right after you did it? Today it was to let that cheap ass round of Tula into the mix. My wife took me to the range after errands...I guess she's a little more watchful since my second hospitalization. Even with my pass, the weather conditions were met...32F and the range a sheet of ice.

'41 Beretta Army, two magazines of Remington SD, then Remington ball, with that one !@#$% Tula round. Case wall jammed the pistol shut tighter than a clam. Had to pound it out with a screwdriver and mallet when I got home. Second mag worked perfectly.

Looks like a 61, 86, and an incomplete 51.

t

 

[mac1911]

I have no offhand skills; maybe I should use those 2nd bullets for practice. I have like 240 of them left.

You're definitely right about the different rifles, I think. I don't usually have enough time/ammo on hand for sighters for this postal, so my first three shots or so end up being "sighters." Three eights already starts you with a cap of 94 assuming you hit nothing but 10s the rest of the way. I'm dumb and don't load the same thing each time, just do up whatever powder/projectile combo I feel like at the moment, other than my M1s.

I want to take my match M1 out but it's still in pieces after I disassembled it to do the stock. It's just been sitting on the work bench for a couple of weeks now until I find the courage to do the tung oil.

Get a daisy 853 from cmp and set up anywhere. It’s good enough to keep your skills up IMHO.
I’m guilty of slamming ammo together myself. I think it’s been a factor in some of my not so good scores.
My “match” garand is pretty good with any load really: 41-46 H4895 grains gives my solid sub 3moa and Varget 44-46 grains will get me down to 2 and sometimes better. Well that’s until I get to a match then it turns into anything under 5moa and hitting the black is a good day

CMP New England Games VT 2018 had 95 as issued M1 garand shooters and only 30 scored 270+. The winner was a 289
Start keeping a log of each gun and what load and sight setting you had. It will go a long way to keeping you on target next time

 

[daekken]

Get a daisy 853 from cmp and set up anywhere. It’s good enough to keep your skills up IMHO.
I’m guilty of slamming ammo together myself. I think it’s been a factor in some of my not so good scores.
My “match” garand is pretty good with any load really: 41-46 H4895 grains gives my solid sub 3moa and Varget 44-46 grains will get me down to 2 and sometimes better. Well that’s until I get to a match then it turns into anything under 5moa and hitting the black is a good day

CMP New England Games VT 2018 had 95 as issued M1 garand shooters and only 30 scored 270+. The winner was a 289
Start keeping a log of each gun and what load and sight setting you had. It will go a long way to keeping you on target next time

With my M1s I've stuck to 168gr and Varget or IMR 4895 plus occasionally 4064. With other cartridges it's been kind of a "whatever" approach. I have tossed a notepad into the range bag to keep track of holds/round performance. Usually I'm working off of memory and/or sighters.

 

[mac1911]

With my M1s I've stuck to 168gr and Varget or IMR 4895 plus occasionally 4064. With other cartridges it's been kind of a "whatever" approach. I have tossed a notepad into the range bag to keep track of holds/round performance. Usually I'm working off of memory and/or sighters.

Memory whats that...

 

[Mountain]

Memory whats that...

They say as you age, it's the second thing to go. I can't remember the first one...

 

[majspud]

158gr/770fps/210ft.lbs Remington LRN
50/1500/250 Liberty SD

May not be strictly MilSurp, but definitely saw action with police, special service types, CIA, FBI, etc.

1937 Colt Detective Special

Top left 18 rounds Liberty SD practice
Other 3: 10 rounds Remington LRN
36F, overcast, range still a skating rink
Scores; 60.X, 56, 55. All double action wearing gloves.

I don’t know why it occurred to me, just copy the targets...duh

t

 

[cjrubes]

P.S. I coincidentally decided to start working up a load for my Winchester M1917 with pristine original (3-18) barrel (gauges at 1 and has no signs of pitting) and had settled on a 175gr projectile after a bit of research. I'm going to start a little lower for safety sake, but will likely just end up stealing your load data. Thank you for posting that.

Not a problem! I started low and worked up as well. I found 47gr was pretty much the sweet spot because once I got past 47.5gr or so the grouping opened up drastically....looked almost like a shotgun pattern lol. So I settled on 47gr and it's been consistent for me each time I've shot it at the range.

 

[cjrubes]

Sir...you are underestimating yourself.

You, at the very least, just TIED first place for bragging rights...but you may very well have just 'sealed the deal' with a 99 2X!

Your first target is a 98 or a 99 2X and your second target is a 95 2X! If it breaks the line, it counts.

VERY nice rifles, and even nicer shooting!

Hot damn I 'need' an M96...wtf?!?!

Stand by for the judges decision...

**whispering**

PAGING @Mountain

Yeah, the M96 almost feels like cheating to me lol. It just hits whatever I'm aiming at (albeit 6-8 inches higher at 100 yards). The sights aren't the most precise but I find it easy to get a consistent sight picture.

Dont dismiss lower end of load data.
So far other than some AR loads my milsurp loads are performing best for me at the lower end of data.
Unless Im punching past 200 I see no reason to load any hotter than needed

Same here. I just try to find a load that my milsurps like. If I find something that shoots well on the lower end of the load data so be it. I run 41gr of Reloader 22 in my Swede whereas other Swede owners (at least from my reading on the Gunboards forum) run around 44gr, some even higher than that, for their most accurate load.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

My Swedes like the IMR 4895 weighing in at 33.3 gr. For a rifle I weigh every charge.

Although looking through my load data I haven't tried much of anything else for powder. It seems as though it worked well enough for me to not experiment.
22-250? That's another story.

 

[daekken]

22-250? That's another story.

Best luck so far has been 55gr either SMK or Nosler Custom Comps with Varget.

 

[daekken]

Target 1: 85-0x
Target 2: 85-1x

Took the SKS today. Now, the only true milsurp rifles I have left to do are my M1s. I am planning to do the Service Grade next week but my Field Grade Special is disassembled as I was going to tung oil the stock but I've been procrastinating.

I also wanted to try to compare Wolf and Golden Tiger; in the General Discussion section there's been talk of potential import restrictions, and the discussion's gone over the best of the Russian import 7.62x39. I usually shoot either Wolf Military Classic or Golden Tiger.



First up was the Golden Tiger. It was 17° here went I went out; hands got very cold very quickly.
The Golden Tiger is sealed and lacquered:



My first shot was low left. I raised the rear sight one notch and then hit high left. Then, my next several shots were in the black and I felt like I was well on my way to a really nice target; before having one flyer (definitely me) and then three left. Not really sure what happened. Ended with an 85.



Next up was the Wolf Military Classic. This supposedly has harder primers which is better to guard against SKS slamfiring. It's not sealed, and sports a coating rather than lacquer.



I also ended up with an 85, but with an X so I guess this gives it a slight edge.


Even though the Wolf got an edge due to the X, to my eyes the Golden Tiger was a slightly tighter group overall.



Next up is the M1, and in a couple of weeks I have a day off and might run my modern pattern rifles (M16A1 clone and AKMs). I still want to run the M1917 again and the K98, etc.

 

[mac1911]

Target 1: 85-0x
Target 2: 85-1x

Took the SKS today. Now, the only true milsurp rifles I have left to do are my M1s. I am planning to do the Service Grade next week but my Field Grade Special is disassembled as I was going to tung oil the stock but I've been procrastinating.

I also wanted to try to compare Wolf and Golden Tiger; in the General Discussion section there's been talk of potential import restrictions, and the discussion's gone over the best of the Russian import 7.62x39. I usually shoot either Wolf Military Classic or Golden Tiger.

View attachment 267213

First up was the Golden Tiger. It was 17° here went I went out; hands got very cold very quickly.
The Golden Tiger is sealed and lacquered:

View attachment 267214 View attachment 267215

My first shot was low left. I raised the rear sight one notch and then hit high left. Then, my next several shots were in the black and I felt like I was well on my way to a really nice target; before having one flyer (definitely me) and then three left. Not really sure what happened. Ended with an 85.

View attachment 267216

Next up was the Wolf Military Classic. This supposedly has harder primers which is better to guard against SKS slamfiring. It's not sealed, and sports a coating rather than lacquer.

View attachment 267219

I also ended up with an 85, but with an X so I guess this gives it a slight edge.
View attachment 267220

Even though the Wolf got an edge due to the X, to my eyes the Golden Tiger was a slightly tighter group overall.

View attachment 267221

Next up is the M1, and in a couple of weeks I have a day off and might run my modern pattern rifles (M16A1 clone and AKMs). I still want to run the M1917 again and the K98, etc.

Try some of this next time.
7.62x39 - Lapua

This stuff produced some really nice groups out of my SKS and AK<with scope.
Also came with stripper clips that work!
AMMUNITION YUGO 7.62x39 brass LEAD CORE MILITARY M67 AMMO 40RD BOX ON STRIPPER CLIPS - RGuns
IT IS CORROSIVE you can ask my chinese sks , poor thing.

 

[daekken]

Try some of this next time.
7.62x39 - Lapua

This stuff produced some really nice groups out of my SKS and AK<with scope.
Also came with stripper clips that work!
AMMUNITION YUGO 7.62x39 brass LEAD CORE MILITARY M67 AMMO 40RD BOX ON STRIPPER CLIPS - RGuns
IT IS CORROSIVE you can ask my chinese sks , poor thing.

My stripper clips work pretty well, forget where I got them. A couple sticky ones out of the 20 or so I have.
I could have used them yesterday as trying to single load in the cold was tricky without taking gloves off. Usually I prepare some clips ahead of time, but forgot to do so yesterday.

 

[mac1911]

Next up
Not exactly legal for this match but I have banned myself from any formal trinkets and bragging rights

View: https://imgur.com/a/7TvZey1

The bipod is not attached .
Ammo for this will be 12 rounds of FGMM 175grain

It’s great grandfather will be showing up soon to 1903a4

 

[Mountain]

Note that I am DQ'd from my own postal match, LOL. This morning I was in the mood to shoot something that the CMP bans from regular competition, so why not the National Match clone .308 M1?

99-5X, maybe a (Franco) 100? All the X's were from the first 5 shots. I think the spread was more my eyesight getting fuzzy than the rifle opening up. 155 Palma's over Varget. The first five shots group size comes out to ~1.02", which technically is sub-moa and maybe my personal record for iron sights. Woulda been cool to keep shooting that tightly.

Here's my target from a postal match on the M14 forum-

Except for barrel installation, I built this one all by my lonesome. Been pretty happy with it.

 

[Eugenio.FV]

Wow that’s some very impressive shooting!

 

[Mountain]

Wow that’s some very impressive shooting!

Thanks. Mostly rifle and good loads getting it done. You’ll be impressed by my pistol targets too, but in a different way.

 

[76Too]

Soo...ummm...how much Varget...give or take? Cases/primers/COAL? I’m asking for a friend

Does your M14 like the same flavor? That’s an impressive load and some ridiculously good shooting.

I see that as a 100/5X no?

 

[Mountain]

Soo...ummm...how much Varget...give or take? Cases/primers/COAL? I’m asking for a friend

Does your M14 like the same flavor? That’s an impressive load and some ridiculously good shooting.

I see that as a 100/5X no?

Thanks- I think there's extra torn paper involved so likely a 99. Same load works great in the M14. I'll have to look for the weight of powder. I think it's slightly hotter than midway between min and max load recommended by Hodgdon. I had some other loads that were on the light side and there was a little gas escaping back onto the case. Those results were more like a 4.5 inch spread and I couldn't keep shots in the 10 ring. Cases are Lapua, probably fired three times already. Primers CCI large rifle #200.

 

[majspud]

I have time tomorrow.....may try the byf43

t

 

[mac1911]

Next in the line up

and the ammo

 

[Mountain]

Next in the line up

and the ammo

What scope is that on the A4?

 

[daekken]

Pretty tangential but I know people that might have suggestions would be reading this thread: any recommendations on how to get a websling slide tab back on? Mine got kind of stuck in the keeper and came off when I was pulling it and I don't really know how to get it back on. I assume it doesn't really do anything other than preventing fraying and maybe making it easier to pass through the keeper? I got it from Orion like two years ago.

 

[Mountain]

Pretty tangential but I know people that might have suggestions would be reading this thread: any recommendations on how to get a websling slide tab back on? Mine got kind of stuck in the keeper and came off when I was pulling it and I don't really know how to get it back on. I assume it doesn't really do anything other than preventing fraying and maybe making it easier to pass through the keeper? I got it from Orion like two years ago.

Probably going to need to open it up a bit to get the sling end back in- couple of small flat blade screwdrivers should do it. Trim the end a little if it's frayed.Maybe use some contact cement to help hold it once you squeeze down the tab? If you don't have smooth face pliers or smooth vise jaws, put something between them and the tab when you squeeze it back down. Go easy or you'll distort it into something unusable.