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2019 NES Cast Bullet Seminar Sign Up Thread
- Thread starter 38ExtraSpecial
- Start date
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
This. Between the lube in the die and also the fact that you have smeared and polished the lead via sizing it is too smooth and polished to adhere from what I’m told.
Heating should solve the issue.
I use strictly wheel weights.
If you have to heat these up before you size them, then theres something wrong. I don't ever remember ever having to do that. (edit- for pistol. Rifle you might have to because of the length of surface area)
I've never had to use any kind of lube to push them through either, so the mold is dropping big maybe?
You don't necessarily lose hardness after re-heating as much as it you will "de-temper" the outside "skin" (for lack of a better term), and the only way to really temper it is if you drop the cast from the mold directly into water (kinda similar to heat treating).
If you water drop, then heat (usually the case with powdercoating), it will de-temper the "skin" back to the original brinell hardness.
Keep in mind straight lead has a bhn of about 6 and you can push that to 6 or 700 fps?
The clip on wheel weight lead has a bhn or either 12 or 14
Hi-tek I think is more of a stain than say, a paint. You're going to size after hi-tek/ paint/ powdercoat anyways, so the sizing die (one of those lee push through will work) will set the diameter, no need to worry about coating thickness, just that the coating sticks.
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38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
I think his issues isn’t with his alloy selection it’s due to the wait time after casting.
I’ve cast. 550 grains .458 bullets and immediately side down to .453 with no issues.
I’ve also cast .454” bullets and waited too long and they were an absolute bear to size down to .453”
Heating will take the hardness out.
I can’t say I agree with the heat/quench/heat statement above being any different than what he’s already working on.
He’s already heated the during the casting process. The second heating will remove the hardness without having to do another heat and quench in between.
Kind of reminds me of the guys that use to “triple quench” their knives to get more hardness.
More marketing than anything.
Artie
NES Member
Casting furnace in the Karma section offered up by @NickLeduc
pastera
NES Member
Hardening in lead alloys cannot be compared to steel hardening/quenching
Lead age hardens significantly so sizing shortly after casting or coating will be best for you, your equipment and your bullets (unless you have an exact match top punch or size nose first).
If your bullets are too hard to easily size because of age hardening, you can heat treat the bullets to reset the clock and immediately resize while they are still in a soft state.
What I don't know is if you need to heat treat after immediate sizing in order to restore the driving band hardness (lead work softens)
Lead age hardens significantly so sizing shortly after casting or coating will be best for you, your equipment and your bullets (unless you have an exact match top punch or size nose first).
If your bullets are too hard to easily size because of age hardening, you can heat treat the bullets to reset the clock and immediately resize while they are still in a soft state.
What I don't know is if you need to heat treat after immediate sizing in order to restore the driving band hardness (lead work softens)
Bump. Bet you guys are glad you went to the seminar last year 
If this keeps up, I think our gracious hosts may be looking at a two-fer for 2020 to keep all these guys shooting!
I thought I was an idiot for moving almost 100lbs of lead almost 1000 miles this past year, but it turns out it might have been the smartest decision I've made.
Is it wrong that I have a giant smile on my face, knowing that I have quite literally EVERYTHING I need to shoot for at least the next year or two (or three) right in my very own basement...all while other people are panic buying every case of bird shot left on the shelves?
I'm MOSTLY wrong pretty much all of the time, so it feels really good to have been right about getting into casting when I did.
Congratulations to all you guys that jumped in with both feet. Sit back and enjoy the show!
If this keeps up, I think our gracious hosts may be looking at a two-fer for 2020 to keep all these guys shooting!
I thought I was an idiot for moving almost 100lbs of lead almost 1000 miles this past year, but it turns out it might have been the smartest decision I've made.
Is it wrong that I have a giant smile on my face, knowing that I have quite literally EVERYTHING I need to shoot for at least the next year or two (or three) right in my very own basement...all while other people are panic buying every case of bird shot left on the shelves?
I'm MOSTLY wrong pretty much all of the time, so it feels really good to have been right about getting into casting when I did.
Congratulations to all you guys that jumped in with both feet. Sit back and enjoy the show!
Artie
NES Member
I feel the same way. After the run on ammo during all the prior scares, I promised myself I would never be without. I hated going from store to store, a box here and a box here at rapey prices. 1st thing i did was I started reloading and when prices on ammo were down, I bought when I really didn't need it. Now that I can cast my projectiles, I feel so independent. I cant thank the crew enough that taught the seminar. Teach a man to fish and all that jazzBump. Bet you guys are glad you went to the seminar last year
If this keeps up, I think our gracious hosts may be looking at a two-fer for 2020 to keep all these guys shooting!
I thought I was an idiot for moving almost 100lbs of lead almost 1000 miles this past year, but it turns out it might have been the smartest decision I've made.
Is it wrong that I have a giant smile on my face, knowing that I have quite literally EVERYTHING I need to shoot for at least the next year or two (or three) right in my very own basement...all while other people are panic buying every case of bird shot left on the shelves?
I'm MOSTLY wrong pretty much all of the time, so it feels really good to have been right about getting into casting when I did.
Congratulations to all you guys that jumped in with both feet. Sit back and enjoy the show!
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Bump. Bet you guys are glad you went to the seminar last year
If this keeps up, I think our gracious hosts may be looking at a two-fer for 2020 to keep all these guys shooting!
I thought I was an idiot for moving almost 100lbs of lead almost 1000 miles this past year, but it turns out it might have been the smartest decision I've made.
Is it wrong that I have a giant smile on my face, knowing that I have quite literally EVERYTHING I need to shoot for at least the next year or two (or three) right in my very own basement...all while other people are panic buying every case of bird shot left on the shelves?
I'm MOSTLY wrong pretty much all of the time, so it feels really good to have been right about getting into casting when I did.
Congratulations to all you guys that jumped in with both feet. Sit back and enjoy the show!
It’s and awesome feeling for sure.
While everyone I freaking out I’m looking forward to spending some time in front of the casting pot making sure my bullet bins are stacked with all of the varieties I need.
It was nice to hand a buddy 5# of 00 buck today so he can load up 12 gauge. I have no issues helping out buddies because I’m only an hours work away from fill that big bin of 00 back up.
Enjoy the Quarantine. I’ll be making bullets
I got angry at my lee 90370 today.... I have not cast much with this mold. It was given to me a while back. I used it for some 50 yard gallery loads at about 900fps out of the 1903a3 just for fun. Never even bothered culling bad bullets and just cast enough for a summer of plinking. Well now since my original plans to use a 314299 200 grain sized to .310 but the nose is just to big for the throat and really jams into the rifling of the M1aSo I said heck I will try the lee 309-200-R. I wanted to water quench these to harden them up a bit as Im pushing them to 1800fps-2000fps ,,,,after messing around with alloy temp and smacking the living shit out of my mold trying to get the bullet to release from one half of the mold while it was still hot, I said f*** it.
Did a DIY lead lap of the mold. its a old single cavity mold that was free so I did not care if I messed it up.
So I took the best bullet I casted and drilled a hole in the base to accept a screw. Now I was impatient and grabbed the quick and easy items. I used ceramic stove top cleaner as my lap/polishing compound. Cleaned the mold and installed the bullet with screw and worked it by hand until I could get it to spin. After 20 or so cycles, I cleaned up the mold and found another preety good bullet to do a final spin with the drill this time.
The bullet on the left was one of the better bullets pre - lap. bullet on the right is post lap. Center is the lead lap. it now drops the bullet with out needing a tap on the mold frame. Bullets come out much nicer. I may do a final polish some day. Good enough for now.
need to mix up another batch of my Faux lyman #2 alloy
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Ordered some Hi-Tek and left a comment on check out:
"I found out about your coatings through Michael Spanglers casting seminar in Fairhaven, Massachusetts before I left the state. He gave us free samples that you donated in 2018 and I've been using for the past 1.5 years. This is excellent stuff and I'm really thankful I was introduced to it."
Maybe this year he won't be such a jew with donations for the seminar if he knows it's actually leading us to purchase his products down the road. If my batch from the seminar 1.5 years ago didn't get all 'gummy' at the bottom of the container, I wouldn't have had to order more just yet. I'm looking at doing a LOT more casting this year though, so the order would have been inevitable anyway.
Got some 'fun' colors too...i'm usually a plane jane, but variety is the spice of life, right? I might actually use the different colors for caliber designation...we'll see.
Currently, I'm still cleaning my work bench so I have room to cast. Moving the way we did last year, I kinda just shoved everything into the garage when I made trips out to Indy w/the trailer...now I'm still dealing with the consequences. Things could be worse, I guess...I could still be living in MA?!?!?
"I found out about your coatings through Michael Spanglers casting seminar in Fairhaven, Massachusetts before I left the state. He gave us free samples that you donated in 2018 and I've been using for the past 1.5 years. This is excellent stuff and I'm really thankful I was introduced to it."
Maybe this year he won't be such a jew with donations for the seminar if he knows it's actually leading us to purchase his products down the road. If my batch from the seminar 1.5 years ago didn't get all 'gummy' at the bottom of the container, I wouldn't have had to order more just yet. I'm looking at doing a LOT more casting this year though, so the order would have been inevitable anyway.
Got some 'fun' colors too...i'm usually a plane jane, but variety is the spice of life, right? I might actually use the different colors for caliber designation...we'll see.
Currently, I'm still cleaning my work bench so I have room to cast. Moving the way we did last year, I kinda just shoved everything into the garage when I made trips out to Indy w/the trailer...now I'm still dealing with the consequences. Things could be worse, I guess...I could still be living in MA?!?!?
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Nice! Thanks for the plug. It’s always good to let companies know who is promoting them and where their new customers come from.Ordered some Hi-Tek and left a comment on check out:
"I found out about your coatings through Michael Spanglers casting seminar in Fairhaven, Massachusetts before I left the state. He gave us free samples that you donated in 2018 and I've been using for the past 1.5 years. This is excellent stuff and I'm really thankful I was introduced to it."
Maybe this year he won't be such a jew with donations for the seminar if he knows it's actually leading us to purchase his products down the road. If my batch from the seminar 1.5 years ago didn't get all 'gummy' at the bottom of the container, I wouldn't have had to order more just yet. I'm looking at doing a LOT more casting this year though, so the order would have been inevitable anyway.
Got some 'fun' colors too...i'm usually a plane jane, but variety is the spice of life, right? I might actually use the different colors for caliber designation...we'll see.
Currently, I'm still cleaning my work bench so I have room to cast. Moving the way we did last year, I kinda just shoved everything into the garage when I made trips out to Indy w/the trailer...now I'm still dealing with the consequences. Things could be worse, I guess...I could still be living in MA?!?!?
On the other hand you did say you were using it for 1.5 years and still had some left that went bad. So he’s not too much of a Jew
I think they give a decent amount to try out without screwing his sales. I bought a liter of liquid when I first started 8 years ago. I still have some. Granted I’ve used some other powder for the same reason as you. Variety! For most guys like us if we bought a liter it could last us a decade. I’m sure mine would have covered everything I’ve coated in the 8 years.
Also he had just given me some samples to do some tests with right before the last seminar. So I think he was thinking I could use up that.
Also I’m not being defensive at all I’m just trying to put it all in perspective. Donnie has been a great help for us. Also his brother is Jerry Miculek and you don’t want to get on their bad side
All that said I always had the idea of segregating alloy by color.
So if I cast some MP 130 RN out of soft alloy and size .358” then I’ll coat them with Red Copper. If I cast that same bullet hard and size to .357” for 9mm then I coat them zombie green. Then it’s easy to tell at a glance which is which and I won’t mix them up or have to check the diameters.
I don’t usually get it consistent but I make it a point to keep the same bullets of different alloys a totally different color.
What colors did you order? I’m going to get some zombie green. I think that’s my favorite color so far.
i got black cherry, old gold, tru blue, and gun metal. i had the zombie green in my cart, but the plain jane in me pulled back on the reigns
for the record, I didn't call him a jew in my comment it was obviously very nice of him to offer the samples in the first place and I just wanted to 'incentivize' him to do it again if he's in a position to do so.
man, is THAT funny!?!? he's really Jerry Miculek's brother?
yeah, i might be sending him extra money for a tip just to make sure i didn't piss him off...can you imagine what Easter family dinner must be like at their house?
for the record, I didn't call him a jew in my comment
it was obviously very nice of him to offer the samples in the first place and I just wanted to 'incentivize' him to do it again if he's in a position to do so.man, is THAT funny!?!? he's really Jerry Miculek's brother?
yeah, i might be sending him extra money for a tip just to make sure i didn't piss him off...can you imagine what Easter family dinner must be like at their house?
pastera
NES Member
It's amazing how fast you can go through Hitech if you OCD and put 3 coats on all of your bullets.
It's still cheap but goes fast - I'm pretty sure that two coats is enough but I like the look of three over cooked coats. And I like running one or two patches and having a clean barrel.
It's still cheap but goes fast - I'm pretty sure that two coats is enough but I like the look of three over cooked coats. And I like running one or two patches and having a clean barrel.
So my daughter has reached complete boredom and now is peaking around me to see what I was up to.I was trying to make some lube tubes for the lyman 450 and use what I have left of 2500+ lube.
She aays “ewh , whats that” bullet lube “ why is it so ugly”. IDK
You have any crayons “yes” go grab colors you like
We started with 1/4” piece of blue. Its crazy how little you need. Food coloring would probably work too?
Well the blue came out just to blah, added a 1/4 purple which changed it some, finally added 1/4 white and she was happy.
My mold failed. I dont have anything with a 1” dia around so i tried making it from cardboard tube, leaked!
Anyway daughter says, cant you coat the entire bullet? Why yes you can. Now she wants this light purple for the bullets.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
I guess I worded that wrong. I know you didn’t call him a Jew.i got black cherry, old gold, tru blue, and gun metal. i had the zombie green in my cart, but the plain jane in me pulled back on the reigns
for the record, I didn't call him a jew in my comment
man, is THAT funny!?!? he's really Jerry Miculek's brother?
yeah, i might be sending him extra money for a tip just to make sure i didn't piss him off...can you imagine what Easter family dinner must be like at their house?
Yeah when I speak to him on the phone I just picture Jerry the whole time. He sound exactly like him and has the same Louisiana dialect. Super nice guy. I do the same thing. I tend to water it down by maybe 10% or so that way it’s not too thick. If that’s even a thing. 3 coats looks so good and fills the lube grooves
They do have a blue and a red Hi-Tek You can mix them and get a nice purple for her.
just might do thatI guess I worded that wrong. I know you didn’t call him a Jew.
I do the same thing. I tend to water it down by maybe 10% or so that way it’s not too thick. If that’s even a thing. 3 coats looks so good and fills the lube grooves
They do have a blue and a red Hi-Tek You can mix them and get a nice purple for her.
SMELTING AND CASTING FLUX, What are you all using and what do you like.
Smelting, I will use just about anything , old candles, the wax around cheese, saw dust when I have it.
I have a good amount of paraffin wax. picked up at a yard sale good block of it that lady used in a paraffin wax hand treatment bath.
I will always give my casting pot a good FLUX. years ago I would use bees wax. My source for cheap bees wax dried up. I now use Frank ford arsenal CLEANCAST it does not smoke or stink and really cleans up the pot before casting. It does not take much and my container is still plenty full. I usually leave the the junk on top to keep oxidation of the surface of the alloy to a min.
Saw dust is my favorite smelting flux when I can get some nice smelling hard woods.
Smelting, I will use just about anything , old candles, the wax around cheese, saw dust when I have it.
I have a good amount of paraffin wax. picked up at a yard sale good block of it that lady used in a paraffin wax hand treatment bath.
I will always give my casting pot a good FLUX. years ago I would use bees wax. My source for cheap bees wax dried up. I now use Frank ford arsenal CLEANCAST it does not smoke or stink and really cleans up the pot before casting. It does not take much and my container is still plenty full. I usually leave the the junk on top to keep oxidation of the surface of the alloy to a min.
Saw dust is my favorite smelting flux when I can get some nice smelling hard woods.
I have had min long enough to forget when I bought it 5 plus years now
saw dust is probably the best over all. i had some maple saw dust for a while and really liked that.
most hardwoods will smell good. i also had a hickory stick i used to store the pot.
I leave all residue ash on top to keep oxidation minimum.
In casting pot the cleancast will form a layer if you leave it in. Im not to worried about loosing much tin in the small pot.
Did a little sorting in the pit aka reloading room and shed.
Decided to melt down all the mystery nugets and odd ends I found doing a clean out on my down time.
I pick up propane when ever Walmart has it on sale right now its $14.82 for a exchange.
Video Quality not good, I still have problems with the orientation?
Yesterday
View: https://youtu.be/diWQzUI7wM4
Today: i got around to melting the scrap down .
I was not very productive or efficient and I could have cut down on fuel use if i had everything ready to go vs looking for everything while the pot got hot.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfv6U61Q9sM
So from ignition to muffin pan it took me 38min and I used 1lb of fuel. Ended up with 28lbs of ignots.
So if i keep that level of efficiency thats about 420lbs for 15lbs of propane. If your more efficient and do smelts in large runs and everyrhing is up to temp should be little reason to get 500lbs done.
You will loose some pressure as the tank gets low.
Basically you should be running at .05 cents per pound to smelt lead.
38 min and 1lb of fuel for 28lbs of lead
Decided to melt down all the mystery nugets and odd ends I found doing a clean out on my down time.
I pick up propane when ever Walmart has it on sale right now its $14.82 for a exchange.
Video Quality not good, I still have problems with the orientation?
Yesterday
View: https://youtu.be/diWQzUI7wM4
Today: i got around to melting the scrap down .
I was not very productive or efficient and I could have cut down on fuel use if i had everything ready to go vs looking for everything while the pot got hot.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfv6U61Q9sM
So if i keep that level of efficiency thats about 420lbs for 15lbs of propane. If your more efficient and do smelts in large runs and everyrhing is up to temp should be little reason to get 500lbs done.
You will loose some pressure as the tank gets low.
Basically you should be running at .05 cents per pound to smelt lead.
38 min and 1lb of fuel for 28lbs of lead
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So you want to smelt wheel weights?
Its not bad but the return is getting smaller with each bucket as time passes. This bucket was just a little shy of half full.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1axMm-NT9o8
I ended up with 37lbs of pre-smelt weights. After smelt was 30lbs of clean muffins. About 25 minute sorting and what ever time it took to melt/flux and pour. Call it a hour
So if you can work over time or find a way to make extra money you can buy virgin alloy like lyman #2 for $3.80/lb or even recycled lead at $1.60 lb per 1000lb pallet load
Its not bad but the return is getting smaller with each bucket as time passes. This bucket was just a little shy of half full.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1axMm-NT9o8
I ended up with 37lbs of pre-smelt weights. After smelt was 30lbs of clean muffins. About 25 minute sorting and what ever time it took to melt/flux and pour. Call it a hour
So if you can work over time or find a way to make extra money you can buy virgin alloy like lyman #2 for $3.80/lb or even recycled lead at $1.60 lb per 1000lb pallet load
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38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Bullet mould karma here. Get in before I close it!
Artie
NES Member
Very generous karma.
I haven't done any casting lately with about 200lbs of different calibers of bullets cast I really don't need to. With all this Virus Crap going on I have been around the house a lot it has been giving me time to build and fix a Three rifles so far First is an Arisaka Type 38 that was chopped up. I found a cheap stock and most of the other parts around and put it back to Military. The next two I was able to make from the pile of parts on the table a Enfield #4 Mk1 and the cut barreled Receiver I was able to build a clone #5/Jungle Carbine.
I hope everyone is doing well and I hope you all stay safe.
I hope everyone is doing well and I hope you all stay safe.
