21 killed, 18 injured in shooting at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas

There are a bunch on YouTube with the sound garbled, but you can hear (but not necessarily decipher) the guys taking in the hall. When the first guys show up (11:36), you can still hear the shots in 111 and 112. It's pretty sickening...I only watched a select few minutes. Maybe Mike Glover had a source with original audio....I have no idea.

Here is one:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QNvy56dEpSg
 
If you're one of those 2 officers how do you not make it your mission in life to take out the other 394 idiots on scene who prevented you from doing everything in your power to save your family member...

A couple things.

I don't know about the one who's daughter was killed, but as for the one who's wife was killed:

1. He was one of the first responders (is seen entering the school with the very first group who arrived). While he may not have known his wife was shot, or maybe she wasn't even shot yet, he was in a position where he could have acted and did not. So it would seem he had no intention of doing anything UNTIL he found out she was shot.

2. I fully agree many there deserve a ton of blame (at the least), but it's a bit hyperbolic to blame every cop who responded. I think we can all recognize that not all of the 300+ there were in a position to, or had the knowledge of the situation to have personally attempted to engage the killer. I don't blame nor would expect a cop who shows up when there's already dozens of cops on scene an inside to somehow realize that everyone inside is just cowardly hiding around the corner doing nothing and be able to rush in and push past everyone.

With that said, there are a TON who deserve full blame.

All the cops who were apart of the first group who responded and arrived within minutes (I believe there were at least 8, maybe more).
Anyone in a command position.
Anyone who made any decision or directed anyone to wait and not engage.
Anyone who actively prevented someone who wanted to do something from doing so.
Any SWAT pretender who arrived for the purpose of acting and instead didn't and/or waited.
Anyone who knew what was happening and said or did nothing to facilitate a fast response.
Anyone who withheld information or later lied about the situation.

And it sounds like that is a very large number. But it's certainly not all of them.


But I digress. Your other point that if that many cops can respond in such a rural location, that location has way too many cops in the first place, is spot on. What exactly is the point of 400 cops showing up only for all of them to do nothing meaningful? I think the idiom of too many cooks in the kitchen probably applies here. Herd mentality too. So many people, nobody seems to be doing anything, therefore I don't need to do anything either.

I bet if instead only a few cops showed up and they knew nobody else was coming to help them, if only one of them had some balls, they wouldn't have waited for as long as they did...

In conclusion, a bunch should be fired for being cowards. A bunch fired for being incompetent. A bunch for being scumbags. And a bunch more for being unnecessary and pointless.
 
Why? Were any of those kids who died African American? Then probably not. Plus I bet none of them were turning their lives around. So that's going against them getting any "justice" as well.

What those kids and their parents are going to get is more accurately called "Just Ass"
Many if not most of the cops appear to not be White as well.
 


Immigrant crusade? I was just reading something this afternoon about what goes on there. Apparently illegals are chased thru the area frequently - and when they get cornered they just dump the car that they're in and take off. I'm not sure how so many illegals are getting cars so quickly once they're over the border , but from what the article said this happens on an almost daily basis right around that school. So the teachers and administration have become lackadaisical to it. I guess I can't blame them too much on that - you can't live your entire life in the red zone every single day.

The douche in that article though is trying to paint the problem as if CHASING the illegals is the issue, rather than the illegals being here IN THE FIRST PLACE as the issue. So it's typical leftist bullshit where they will defend anything and everything that breaks the law or makes life more chaotic.
 
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If you're wondering why I don't trust the media down there, this is the same general area where the 'whipping' incident took place. No one was whipped, it was all made up to sell clicks. Guys are getting suspended for calling someone a bad name when they hid behind a woman to avoid apprehension.

I'm not convinced there wasn't a colossal screwup, but Jesus, some of you guys are so quick to jump on the MSM bandwagon when the narrative is something you 'want' to hear.
I don’t trust the media or law enforcement.

I trust my eyes. The facts are kids were being slaughtered while cops were in the hallway. I don’t need to know much more than that.
 

"Private individuals were the only people who knew of the many warning signs he displayed, as he had no criminal history prior to the shooting. The alleged shooter's apparent motive was a "desire for notoriety and fame," according to the report.

Those interviewed by the committee, including family, friends and acquaintances, reported many warning signs that experts say should have raised red flags.

"He exhibited almost every warning sign," John Cohen, an ABC News contributor and the former acting undersecretary for intelligence and counterterrorism coordinator at the Department of Homeland Security, said in an interview. "This guy should have been on everybody's radar.
"

They want social media sweeps using algorithms to detect mass shooters and new gun laws to stop mass shooters - neither of which will work if family, friends, school staff and law enforcement look the other way when the red flags go up. When it's everybody's job to take action, it's nobody's job...
 
Think about what it would take mentality wise - to decide to go back into that room after just having been shot at. First off - if all the other guys around you are like "I'm not going in there" - you're gonna have to have enough intestinal fortitude to say "phuck you guys" and go off and do it yourself. Then apparently they're getting told somebody else is coming in to do it - so you back off thinking that SWAT has it or whatever - and they're better equipped so you wait . Problem is they don't show up - now you've been waiting - and you've put yourself mentally into "wait mode". When they don't show up after 1 minute, or two minutes or 5 - you've got to have that little man in your head BEATING on you saying "get your phucking asss in that room NOW".

I don't think a lot of people have that sense of time urgency. Even in the military - you don't find that very commonly - unless you're talking about special forces operators or troops have lived thru actual hard combat and seen people die because somebody hesitated. It also takes a person who has a large dose of phuck you guys circulating in their system. Do you think the average cop has that? I don't think so. Most of them are picked for their ability to follow orders and go along. I don't think hard core rebels last very long in the employ of law enforcement agencies.

I don't see that time urgency much in my own personal interactions with people. I have it most of the time, but that comes from having it drummed into my head at an early age, and after multiple life experiences where if I didn't do something like NOW - a really bad thing would have happened. And trying to get other people to get off their ass and move because you see a car headed your way that's about to jump the sidewalk and mow everybody down ....... good luck with that , about 60% of people in my experience would just respond with "wait - I need to respond to this text" before they even looked up.

Anyone defending these pukes should be shunned from society.
 
Anyone defending these pukes should be shunned from society.

I think it's pretty interesting that shortly on the heels of - what was it 378? cops NOT doing anything to stop that school shooter from kiling all those people - along comes some 20 year old kid in a mall who was carrying - and shot down a guy who had just killed three people. From what I read - that 20 year old was ADVANCING on the guy - and we all know from the videos that the cops all turned tail and ran when they started getting shot at.

People out to be taking those two examples and ramming them home into the brains of people who just don't "get it".

And when some leftie scumbag brings up how the "police are here to protect you!!" - bring up those two examples and tell them to phuck off.......... and die.
 
I think it's pretty interesting that shortly on the heels of - what was it 378? cops NOT doing anything to stop that school shooter from kiling all those people - along comes some 20 year old kid in a mall who was carrying - and shot down a guy who had just killed three people. From what I read - that 20 year old was ADVANCING on the guy - and we all know from the videos that the cops all turned tail and ran when they started getting shot at.

People out to be taking those two examples and ramming them home into the brains of people who just don't "get it".

And when some leftie scumbag brings up how the "police are here to protect you!!" - bring up those two examples and tell them to phuck off.......... and die.
Warren v. District of Columbia. Decided in 1981. How naïve I was about the police until I read that.
 
That's what you have to do, right? I mean, not necessarily advance, but once you take control, keep it. Make him hide.



"THE BATTLEFIELD IS MINE! But now you can have it."


Yeah - pretty much. I bet if you start getting into the psychology of what happened that day - the fact that the cops ran away when the shooter shot at them - just emboldened him to go around kill more people.

There's been plenty of books published about the psychology of battles and the psychology of criminals and their propensity to go after victims. As I remember it there is one basic rule: You must establish dominance over the enemy to get them to submit. What this means in war is that when two armies meet once one army starts to "think" the other is winning - it often become a self fulfilling prophecy. And predatory criminals - pick victims based on 1) the perceived ability of the criminal to victimize them and 2) the perceived ability of the victim to fight back.

I remember reading one study where they had people walk down a dark street - and they had a mugger rate each person on their perceived "victimhood". The criminal was pretty accurate in assessing how much resistance each person would give - just by the way they walked.

Year ago I read the book "Terror at Beslan" about the Chechen terrorists that took over the Russian school and killed hundreds. The after-assessment of that situation was that the best time to fight back - was RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING. They advocated arming teachers and telling kids even to fight back. Fighting back throws them off their game and gains time.

I'm pretty sure a very compulsive argument exists that those cops made that situation much worse by running away and THEN waiting.
 
I am willing to bet a number of these coward shitbags went home after and were consoled by friends and family for having to see dead kids.

I am also willing to bet a number of these losers feel satisfied with themselves because they were “Following orders” and justify their lack of action on that alone.

The Chief and any other acting supervisors involved should be thrown in jail, while any of the responding officers on scene should be terminated.

Now let’s say for the sake of discussion this did happen and the entire police force was dismissed would you guys be ok with the National Guard policing that area until another force could be raised? That would take a long time. I’m well aware having the Military policing citizens is a taboo thought process, It’s a shitty situation with no easy answer on how to fix it.
 
I am willing to bet a number of these coward shitbags went home after and were consoled by friends and family for having to see dead kids.

I am also willing to bet a number of these losers feel satisfied with themselves because they were “Following orders” and justify their lack of action on that alone.

The Chief and any other acting supervisors involved should be thrown in jail, while any of the responding officers on scene should be terminated.

Now let’s say for the sake of discussion this did happen and the entire police force was dismissed would you guys be ok with the National Guard policing that area until another force could be raised? That would take a long time. I’m well aware having the Military policing citizens is a taboo thought process, It’s a shitty situation with no easy answer on how to fix it.
Why is the NG the solution? Why can't the people police themselves? Why can't state law enforcement cover for a period? Why can't any number of other solutions be considered before bringing in the Guard?
 
Now let’s say for the sake of discussion this did happen and the entire police force was dismissed would you guys be ok with the National Guard policing that area until another force could be raised? That would take a long time. I’m well aware having the Military policing citizens is a taboo thought process, It’s a shitty situation with no easy answer on how to fix it.

Nope. Forget what I think about the Guard working as long-term municipal police: I bet most Guardsman think it's a bad idea.

My sense is that Texas has other LE capabilities they could use on an ad-hoc basis without calling up the National Guard. Specifically, there's a sheriff and he has deputies. There are Texas Rangers and Staties, which aren't the same, and I believe TX has a highway patrol as well.
 
Why is the NG the solution? Why can't the people police themselves? Why can't state law enforcement cover for a period? Why can't any number of other solutions be considered before bringing in the Guard?
I’m not saying it is. I’m just thinking what the immediate plan of action would be if they just dismissed the responding force and leadership which they should.

Policing yourself is a great idea but easier said then done, elderly people, single mothers ect.. ect..

Nope. Forget what I think about the Guard working as long-term municipal police: I bet most Guardsman think it's a bad idea.

My sense is that Texas has other LE capabilities they could use on an ad-hoc basis without calling up the National Guard. Specifically, there's a sheriff and he has deputies. There are Texas Rangers and Staties, which aren't the same, and I believe TX has a highway patrol as well.
Good point about other agencies but I know how it would play out “We are stretched thin as it is”

Whatever Guardsmen think is irrelevant though, your a soldier and you do what your told yes?

I’m not in favor on military policing at all btw but I do know it would be hard to effectively dismiss a department
 
Whatever Guardsmen think is irrelevant though, your a soldier and you do what your told yes?

LOL!

Not for nothing, but have you BEEN in the Guard? They're not robots, and they're not mindless. They're highly skilled at their MOS, since they occupy the slots for a long time. But they're VERY willing to speak up for themselves when they think their commanders are committing them to something dumb. Will they do it, in the end? Sure. Will they seek every possibility to do a half-assed job? Oh yes.

My operational deployment was spent "peacekeeping:" basically, doing law-enforcement and civil affairs. We were keenly aware that we weren't the best choice for that job. We did our best, but we weren't trained for it, and we were active-duty people policing non-Americans. We still felt unprepared. When crises did happen, we responded well because that's where we felt most comfortable, but the day-to-day grind? Nope.

I'd suggest that thinly-stretched staties are a far, far better option than bored, morale-challenged Guardsmen. Especially when you consider that the job is dealing with the public.
 
LOL!

Not for nothing, but have you BEEN in the Guard? They're not robots, and they're not mindless. They're highly skilled at their MOS, since they occupy the slots for a long time. But they're VERY willing to speak up for themselves when they think their commanders are committing them to something dumb. Will they do it, in the end? Sure. Will they seek every possibility to do a half-assed job? Oh yes.

My operational deployment was spent "peacekeeping:" basically, doing law-enforcement and civil affairs. We were keenly aware that we weren't the best choice for that job. We did our best, but we weren't trained for it, and we were active-duty people policing non-Americans. We still felt unprepared. When crises did happen, we responded well because that's where we felt most comfortable, but the day-to-day grind? Nope.

I'd suggest that thinly-stretched staties are a far, far better option than bored, morale-challenged Guardsmen. Especially when you consider that the job is dealing with the public.
Nope, and I’ve known more than enough of them at the jail to know that they are very capable of being the most incompetent idiots out there.

Agreed on other Municipalities stepping in 100%

I wasn’t trying to get you excited, I was just talking hypothetically
 
Nope, and I’ve known more than enough of them at the jail to know that they are very capable of being the most incompetent idiots out there.

Agreed on other Municipalities stepping in 100%

I wasn’t trying to get you excited, I was just talking hypothetically

I'm not excited. I just think a lot of people who've never been in the army have the wrong idea about how it operates. In every unit I was in (Guard or active, combat arms or not, training and operational) there was ALWAYS an honest effort made by commanders to seek input from subordinates during planning and, more importantly, afterward. Civilians don't always understand just how freely lower enlisted can express themselves in a well-run unit while still preserving professionalism. The key is having good leaders.

This is the kind of thing that separates us from, say, the Russians. If you look at how Ukraine is going, you can see how well the "shut up and do what you're told" style of leadership works.
 
I'm not excited. I just think a lot of people who've never been in the army have the wrong idea about how it operates. In every unit I was in (Guard or active, combat arms or not, training and operational) there was ALWAYS an honest effort made by commanders to seek input from subordinates during planning and, more importantly, afterward. Civilians don't always understand just how freely lower enlisted can express themselves in a well-run unit while still preserving professionalism. The key is having good leaders.

This is the kind of thing that separates us from, say, the Russians. If you look at how Ukraine is going, you can see how well the "shut up and do what you're told" style of leadership works.
It works the same way in LE, I was a sergeant and always got the vibe and input of my guys while running security, you earn respect that way as well as not asking someone to do something that you haven’t done yourself or at least willing to do.

The flip side is I was ordered to do things that I 100% disagreed with by people I not only had zero respect for but personally hated as well but I did what I was told to do. I just assumed in the military it is/was the same way.

Staying on topic, I want to believe that if I was told to stand down while someone was killing kids I would refuse that order
 
I'm not excited. I just think a lot of people who've never been in the army have the wrong idea about how it operates. In every unit I was in (Guard or active, combat arms or not, training and operational) there was ALWAYS an honest effort made by commanders to seek input from subordinates during planning and, more importantly, afterward. Civilians don't always understand just how freely lower enlisted can express themselves in a well-run unit while still preserving professionalism. The key is having good leaders.
While collaboration, input, buy in, etc are all hallmarks of true leadership I never really saw that in my days. I might of been to low of a rank, or it might of not been going on. I'll never know.
 
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