.22 @ 100 yard

[Mike S]

So, since the Appleseed I've been happily blasting away at 25 meters with my 10/22.

Out shooting today had some CCI Mini Mags, shot approx 50 round at the usual 25 meters with the usual results. It was a tad windy and I was feeling like stretching it out so I backed up to a hundred yards and shot at the same size target. Shot about a 4 inch group the center of which was approx 4 inches low.

As I'm shooting with a 2 MOA red dot I loaded another mag, put the dot right on the top of the paper and it was right on.

Question is, a 4 inch drop seems like a lot at 100 yards. Think it was the wind?

 

[JohnFH]

If your zeroed for 25m then yes, I can see being 4" low at 100yds.

According to CCI's published ballistics, if you were zeroed for 100yds, you would be about 1.6 inches high at 25m.

 

[Twigg]

<snip>

Question is, a 4 inch drop seems like a lot at 100 yards. Think it was the wind?

Not unless the wind was blowing straight down.

4" drop sounds about right for Stingers at 100 yds, I shoot them a lot and use them for small game as well.
Sounds like you paid attention during Minutes, Inches & Clicks.

 

[RKG]

Once upon a time, when I was a competitive smallbore rifle shooter, the rule of thumb was that a 50-foot zero would be good for 50 yards and you needed 26 clicks (6.5 MOA or about 6.5 inches at 100 yards) to go from 50 yards to 100 yards. This was with "standard velocity" target ammunition.

 

[Jose]

Once upon a time, when I was a competitive smallbore rifle shooter, the rule of thumb was that a 50-foot zero would be good for 50 yards and you needed 26 clicks (6.5 MOA or about 6.5 inches at 100 yards) to go from 50 yards to 100 yards. This was with "standard velocity" target ammunition.

Your thumbrule still works.

In my Anschutz, with my chosen ammo (Wolf Match Extra), and sights (REG 1/4 MOA rear, Anschutz 18 mm front) it takes exactly 7 MOA to get from 50 to 100 yards.

Shooting a smallbore using standard velocity match ammo at 100 yards is very good practice for 600 to 1000 yard fullbore.

 

[Jose]

With good ammo, this is what is possible at 100 yards with an iron-sighted smallbore match rifle. Sling and shooting coat only used for support.

10 ring is 2" across.

 

[Ray-500]

If your zeroed for 25m then yes, I can see being 4" low at 100yds.

According to CCI's published ballistics, if you were zeroed for 100yds, you would be about 1.6 inches high at 25m.

Why would you not be high? At a 25m zero, there is no trajectory. Would not any round fire higher at 100 with a 25 zero?

 

[depicts]

Ray, there is always trajectory. From the moment the bullet leaves the muzzel, it starts to rise, and begins its decent before 100 yards which is why you need the correction.

 

[JohnFH]

25 yards 50 yards 75 yards 100 yards
1.5 2.9 2.4 0.0

That is from CCI's web site for mini mags
between 50 and 75 yards, the round starts to drop, and continues to drop till it reaches 100. If you are zeroed for 25 yards(for this example) you are 1.5 inches low at 25 yards to reach 100 yards. Bullets always travel in an arc.

 

[Mike S]

Really Nice Jose, was that shooting offhand?

With good ammo, this is what is possible at 100 yards with an iron-sighted smallbore match rifle. Sling and shooting coat only used for support.

10 ring is 2" across.

 

[Ray-500]

Ray, there is always trajectory. From the moment the bullet leaves the muzzel, it starts to rise, and begins its decent before 100 yards which is why you need the correction.

Understood....with any caliber. My point is if you zero a 30.06 at 25 yds., it is going to hit higher at 100 yds. due to trajectory. Same holds true for any caliber. Take a .22 zeroed at 50 ft....the trajectory is nil. That same .22 will shoot higher at 25/50 yds. due to parabolic curve. (trajectory).

IMHO only, any projectile has an "arc". The shorter the distance, the less the arc. The greater the distance, the more the arc. In terms of rounds, virtually nothing is "flat". ** I'm told that the S&W .460 with long bbl. will be accurate from 0-200 yds. using factory ammo. Don't know....but that's about as flat as you can get if the info is correct.

 

[Jose]

Bullets always travel in an arc.

Correct, but only because the muzzle has to be elevated to hit anything farther away than a few yards.

If you set a rifle dead level on a bench and fired, the trajectory would never rise above the line of the bore. Simple physics says it can't.

 

[Jose]

Really Nice Jose, was that shooting offhand?

Prone. It would be an almost superhuman feat to shoot that standing at 100 yards with a rimfire rifle.

 

[Ripach]

With good ammo, this is what is possible at 100 yards with an iron-sighted smallbore match rifle. Sling and shooting coat only used for support.

10 ring is 2" across.

Nice shooting Jose! +1 to you sir.

 

[Mike S]

Jose, what was the ammo with that?

 

[Ray-500]

Correct, but only because the muzzle has to be elevated to hit anything farther away than a few yards.

If you set a rifle dead level on a bench and fired, the trajectory would never rise above the line of the bore. Simple physics says it can't.

Then yourself (and physics) say that the arc does not exist?

 

[Jose]

Then yourself (and physics) say that the arc does not exist?

The bullet's arced trajectory exists ONLY because the muzzle is elevated as a by product of the sighting system's geometry in order to hit anything any distance away. When you zero a rifle at 25 yards, muzzle is elevated in order for the bullet to rise to meet a point on the target that is the end of a line going from your eye, through the rear and front sights, and ending at the center of your target (point of aim).

IF you CLAMP a rifle so that its BARREL sets LEVEL to the ground and fire, the bullet's trajectory will NEVER rise above the bore line. That's a fact, Jack. Physics 101.

 

[Jose]

Jose, what was the ammo with that?

Wolf Match Extra. That said, that kind of grouping is achievable with that ammo in my particular Anschutz 1411. There is no guarantee that an identical Anschutz, let alone a different rifle of a different make, will like that same ammo.

In fact, different lots of the same ammo will behave differently in the same rifle.

Since rimfire ammo cannot be adjusted to perfection in a given firearm like hand loaded ammo can be, it becomes a game of testing and re-testing if extreme accuracy is your goal.

 

[jdubois]

IF you CLAMP a rifle so that its BARREL sets LEVEL to the ground and fire, the bullet's trajectory will NEVER rise above the bore line. That's a fact, Jack. Physics 101.

Unless you get some little wings on that sucker

 

[ShadeWPI]

IF you CLAMP a rifle so that its BARREL sets LEVEL to the ground and fire, the bullet's trajectory will NEVER rise above the bore line. That's a fact, Jack. Physics 101.

Absolutely true. If you clamp and level the barrel of a gun and fire it, it will never "rise" above the bore, but it will still have a parabolic tragectory, the barrel will just be at the apex of the parabalic path. A bullet never "rises" above the line of the bore regardless of the angle it's shot at.

The "rise" in the line of flight of a bullet is a result of projecting a level line of sight through the sights and pitching the bore "up" to interset the line of sight at a fixed distance. This is why ballistics tables also have to include the hight above center line for the line of sight.

Using AR style battle sights, the light of sight is 2" above the bore. If you "zero" the rifle at 25 yards, the line of flight has to rise 2" in 25 yards, so the bore is "aimed" with about 8 minutes of angle rise to form an "arc" As you move the light of sight out further, this arc angle actually decreases until the "zero" range occurs at the "apex" of the arc and then the barrel angle begins to increase again.

Conversely, hunting rifle iron sights are typically located very close to the bore - generally less than 1" and sometimes as low as 1/2". This close to bore line of sight increases accuracy at close range (it's great for pistols) but can cause problems as the range increases and a steeper light of sight better tracks the parabolic fall of a bullet's path at medium ranges.