243 or the 300WM for targets

[botticelli]

NES,

I'm am leaning heavily on the 243, but wanted to get NES's input to see if anyone knows something I missed.
Basically can anyone come up with the reason: Must have the 300WM over the 243 because......?

Considerations:
The rifle will only ever be shot at paper or steel targets.
This in not for hunting or flesh targets in any way.
1000yds is the intended range for this rifle, as 1000yd access is limited, 600 will be used commonly as well.
The primary goal is pick the better suited caliber for THIS application. I know both can "do-the-job"
Cost is NOT a consideration.

The rifle will be a box fed rem700
I'm reloading. I have made these assumptions on the 105gn A-MAX for the 243 and the 180gn A-Max for the 300WM
They are both really flat shooting cartridges. The BC's are extremely close @ .500 for the 243 and .495 for the 300WM
They have EXTREMELY similar bullet drop and wild deflections.
I have no preference for a long or short action.
243 is much lighter on the recoil, allowing me as the shooter to shoot more.
300WM has more bullet and powder combinations. Based on the availability to me.
Factory ammo is not intended for use in these rifles.
I will not be carrying the rifle. It will not have a sling.

Thanks in advance,

 

[northny]

As much as I like .243 I would be concerned on ability to buck wind at longer distances with 105g. I would step up to 7mm-08 with 145g. But hey just my bias I rarely shoot past three hundred

 

[botticelli]

Northny,

7mm-08 was definitely also a contender, as it is a better round in the wind.

Running the numbers on a 10mph cross wind here are the MOA needed to compensate for that wind
Caliber | MOA @500m | MOA @1000 | MOA @ 1500
243 | 3.7 | 9.1 | 15.9
300 | 3.7 | 9.1 | 16.0
Adding the 7mm-08 with a 162gn A-Max
7-08 | 3.3 |7.9 | 13.6

Indeed the 7mm-08 is better than both the 243 and the 300WM with the wind, but the components are harder to come by for me. Mainly the brass. Factory ammo is a great source of brass, but buying factory ammo is hard for me at my local gun shops.

Appreciate the response, the reality is if I were in a free state my caliber choices would open up even more.

 

[Steve Marshall]

You've played all kinds of numbers but haven't figured out you can make 7-08 out of .308?, or .243? Let's, just for the sake of discussion, mind you, talk about how velocity trumps B.C.

We'll start with the .243.
3000 fps with .500 B.C. 200 yard zero Drop at 1,000 280" Drift 78.5"
Now 7-08
2700 fps with .625 B.C. 200 yard zero Drop at 1,000 310" Drift 72.4"
Now .300WM
3000 fps with .530 B.C. 200 yard zero Drop at 1,000 269" Drift 84.5"

As you can plainly see, the 7, with it's huge B.C. advantage, is totally outclassed by the .243 and .300. In the choices you gave, no contest. .243 all the way. Now consider the plain jane 7Rem. Mag.
3000 fps with .625 B.C. 200 yard zero Drop at 1,000 244" Drift 61.7
Now 7 Rem. Ultra Mag.
3300 fps with .625 B.C. 200 yard zero Drop at 1,000 195" Drift 52.2

Were trajectory my only concern, I'd go with 7 Rem. Ultra. In your original choice, the .243. I'm cheap, so there's that. Recoil fatigue would be much lower in the .243.

You can play what ifs all day long for the rest of your life. If you really have access to 600 and 1,000 yard ranges, the simple answer is to buy used in whatever caliber you decide on and try it out, you know, cost is NOT a consideration.

 

[Jasper]

7RSAUM if youre going all out. no question about it.

243's a barrel burner, as is 300WM (except the 300WM is gonna punish you recoil wise)

for 600, a 223 would do nicely, not so much at a grand.


if I was building one, and though price wasnt an object, wanted to be a BIT economical, i'd stick to the 6mm/6.5mm go to's

6.5x47 Lapua
260rem
6.5Creedmoor

or:

6xc
6BR
6CM (worth researching, it's a MONSTER of a round for what it is)


biggest question: is buying brass a need-be, or will you fireform?

 

[northny]

In spite of my screen name (northny) I only live 25 miles from Fenway Pahk. My last two trips to bass pro shop scored a bag of new brass for 7mm08. Plus got two boxes factory at Walmart.

That said in spite of all the ammo shortages in past years I believe I could always find .243 win cartridges. When there was nothing else to buy I stocked up.

As I type this I am deer hunting in north ny with 243 win.

 

[botticelli]

Thanks for the responses all this is great!

Steve Marshall: I really just don't want to spend the time converting 308 to 7mm-08. I really don't want to have to make or hunt all over the earth for brass. Although I am not hung up on the cost, this is a rifle I want to shoot, practice, and improve my skills with. I don't want to spend all my time driving between shops.

Northny: Ammo availability is one of the big pluses of the 243 and the wide range of types of that ammo.

Jasper:

I am really wanting to build the rifle for the 1000 mark. The 600 although not ideal is the next best thing and, its closer. It does provide a good practice ground for load development, and getting everything dialed in nicely before the 100 yard jump. As I get better, pick the right load, and have everything working the way I want... I hope to not use/need the 600 as much if at all.

With a lot of these calibers I am going to have to view the barrel as a wear and tear item. Replaced as needed.
With all that said the 300 WM is a recoil punishment, as is the 7mm mags, I was leaning towards a smaller caliber for advantage of being able to shoot it more. This will let me develop as a shooter faster....hopefully.

The purchase of brass is not a must, but i have basically no experience with fire forming. So that one would need to be picked up as well.

 

[cockpitbob]

Here's a little article by the man who knows (David Tubb). He likes the smaller caliber cartridges.

I would go with the .243. Shorter, cheaper and longer barrel life than the 300WM.

I did a fair amount of 1,000y shooting when I lived in CA. The most important thing is the bullet and it's B.C., plus having enough twist to stabilize the long, high B.C. bullets. There's no difference in "bucking the wind" between large and small caliber bullets so long as they have the same B.C. and muzzle velocity.

BTW, at 1,000y the most important thing is what's between the shooter's ears. Beyond 600y the gun's errors are quickly overshowed by the shooter's ability to set dope and read wind. Don't go all obsessive on the gun's accuracy being under 1/2MOA when a 1mph crosswind moves you more than that at 1,000y. And velocity isn't that necessary when you know your dope. In a few informal matches I shot a sporterized 30-40Krag using the 175Gr Sierra MK. I was supsonic at 1,000y but still stable(9" twist) and beat about 1/3 of the shooters. Come-up was something like 40MOA

 

[Jasper]

then honestly, for barrel life and component cost/availability, id go 6xc.

fireforming is as easy as it gets (literally neck up, and run through standard sizing die). barrel life isnt too bad (~2000-2500 on a wilson blank, maybe 3500 on a kreiger/bartlein)....vs 1500ish (from what ive seen) on a 243


and 600yds isnt a "stepping stone" for 1000. not even close. shooting 1000 is FAR more demanding on attention to detail with ammunition and rifle, and FAR less forgiving to mistakes (sight misalignment, doping wind wrong). can you use any old ammo? sure. you certainly wont win the match, especially with some of the guys we have shooting around here. sort of a pay-to-play thing at that point. can i use my chargemaster to load my ammo for 1000? certainly. would I? absolutely not. my Ohaus and Omega trickler along with a GemTech250 keep my powder charges consistently within .08gr total (IE across 100 charges thrown, they measure out 37.98-38.06gr of powder). calling wind is tough enough, losing points to elevation inconsistencies from ammo is not an option.

if you want shoot me a PM. I can tell ya just about anything you'd want/need to know about putting together a rig for target work.

your closest 1k range is upstate NY (Forbes), and they run 3-4 1000yd matches a year.


PS, David Tubb is a douche. talented shooter? sure...but hes a douche. his only "high point" in my opinion was the fact that he developed the 6xc (it really is an EXCELLENT target round)

 

[PatMcD]

Botticelli, dont be offended, but may I ask how much experience you have shooting at long distance? Can you shoot in the 97+% at 600 yds? Not that its a requirement to shoot well at 600 before you shoot at 1000, but 1000yd shooting does require a certain amount of experience at shorter ranges before it can be done well.
Starting your extended range shooting journey at 1000yds is like trying to learn to drive a car by taking an 18-wheeler out in Boston rush hour traffic: its a liitle overwhelming with so many things going on at once.

 

[PatMcD]

Try to find a copy of Nancy Thompkins' book on long range prone shooting. Lots of good stuff in there.

As to calibers, dont forget the. 308. The old girl is no slouch at 1000. Maybe not tje ideal caliber for a new purpose built rig, but used Palma rifles can be bought fairly easy.