3-gun noob advice kilothread

[meth0d]

Tape targets as much as you can until it is your time to shoot and walk through your plan as you tape.

I like this idea, definitely going to start doing that.

Plan your reloads in your head and never reload from slide lock. Slide lock is a surprise and messes your head.

Yeah, I found this to be true on stages 2 & 4. Hit the slide lock with a couple of targets left in a few different arrays. It was towards the end of the stages but certainly would have been smoother if I reloaded after shooting 8 instead of going to slide lock.

When you have your plan set, no matter what you see stick to it. Even if you see someone that seems to have a better plan, that is their plan not yours. Maybe next time you can utilize some of their ideas.

Sounds good, thank you Gary!

Why did you have issues grabbing shotshells?...In any case shotgun loading is something that must be practiced to gain proficiency.

I think I grabbed some of my t-shirt when I went for the first caddy, only got 3 out of 4 shells. Definitely be tucking my shirt in next time out. Other than that the caddies seemed to work well at keeping the shells in place; (California Competition Works 4 shell strippers with the spacers installed). I want to get an ELS belt in the near future, having to unbuckle my belt between stages to shuffle things around was a pain for sure.

In any case shotgun loading is something that must be practiced to gain proficiency.

Absolutely agree, I was happy I didn't toss any shells when it was time to load, haha. Those dummy shells are great tools, very useful.

Your shotgun has no choke or choke tubes. Either get an unported barrel with tubes, or if you can find a longer barrel with ports, have it cut and rethreaded for chokes. Chokes will give you more flexibility on targets, particularly longer shots.

This was something I had read about prior to the match, money is kind of tight so I had to shoot this one in stock config. I like the setup that Ed has on his 930, which I think matches up with what you're describing, I'll have to shoot him a PM about who did the work for him.

Thanks again for the info guys!

 

[TY43215]

At least you didn't leave all your shotshells on the table! In any case shotgun loading is something that must be practiced to gain proficiency.

And you called me mean

 

[Dan S]

And you called me mean

Hey, we shoot together, so I guess it rubbed off.
Besides, Jeff learned a valuable lesson.

 

[Nuke8401]

Shotgun reload points with an 8 round tube (or less) with the plan of shooting 8 and reloading 8 is a gamble. One miss and your plan is toast and the chances of going dry are greater. When shooting with an 8 round (or less) tube shooting 4 and loading 4 is a safe plan as you always have extra shells in the gun. It may not be the fastest but until you can count shots and deal with misses up to 8, starting with 4 is much easier. In the end you are still loading the same number of shells whether it’s 4 or 8 at a time.
- I think the biggest advantage of shooting 4/loading 4 is that even with some misses it allows you to keep the same planned reload points and stay on the plan. When you hear someone say I missed a shot and my plan went south, they may not have had the best plan, a miss or two should not alter your reload plan.

Same with rifle and pistol reloads, don’t plan to have zero, one or two rounds left in the gun at the finish. Reload early (on the move at all possible) so misses don’t force you to go dry/do a standing reload.

You can overcome an un-choked barrel with some #6 high brass for heavy/distant steel (Federal Prairie Storm flight control is my favorite). Hard on the shoulder but great for distance/tight groups from an open choke.

Stage planning, like others have said, commit to a plan early and stick to it. There will always be someone with a different plan that appears to be better. Just shoot your plan and learn from others, what made their plan better? Was it really better? Less movement? Closer distances? Less stops, shooting positions? Not really much different than pistol.

David E.

 

[MAShooter]

When formulating your plan for the stage, you need to factor in your strengths and weakness, as Gary said. The problem with watching other peoples plans is their strengths/weakness are likely different from yours. It's good to watch and learn from others but you need to consider see if each element is something that's good for you. Meaning one person might be good at very long shots and factors that into their plan - which might not be so good for the next guy. Once you have it worked out - stick with the plan. Last minutes changes have a tendency to invite Mr. Murphy for a visit - sometimes it's worth the risk but generally not a good idea.

Afterwards review how your plan went. Consider what worked and what you might have done different. Consider the elements of the other guys plans and what they did that would have made yours better, then go and practice those element so you can incorporate it into your next match.

All the advice from these guys is good for any type of action shooting (pistol, rifle, shotgun). But even more so in Multi-Gun because there is just more going on - more guns to carry gear for, more reloads to plan for, more potential malfunctions to clear, just more targets in general typically larger stages. For example, the typical USPSA large field course, if it's all paper targets, is going to have no more than 16 targets (assuming 2 rounds per target). Stage 2 at New Bedford had 20 rifle and 17 pistol - almost 2.5 times the number of targets to worry about (and stage 4 had 20 rifle and 18 pistol). I saw more than a few people who, as soon as the started shooting, went into target-overload where they completely lost track of where they were and what they were doing. Folks who had a plan, even if it didn't go exactly right, generally were able to execute through the course efficiently and with purpose.

 

[TY43215]

Folks who had a plan, even if it didn't go exactly right, generally were able to execute through the course efficiently and with purpose.

And then there were those of us who had a very good plan that went to hell real quick

An important part of what Dave said is

Last minutes changes have a tendency to invite Mr. Murphy for a visit - sometimes it's worth the risk but generally not a good idea.

I have seen it, I have done it and it is either hero or zero. The zero part is what will happen more than not. Having a plan set in your mind will allow you to make a change on the fly.

David wrote

I think the biggest advantage of shooting 4/loading 4 is that even with some misses it allows you to keep the same planned reload points and stay on the plan. When you hear someone say I missed a shot and my plan went south, they may not have had the best plan, a miss or two should not alter your reload plan.

This makes a lot of sense. I have been trying this because I can only hold 2 rounds maybe 3 without dropping them. Maybe after the hand surgery it will change but I am not counting on it so I use a 6 shell carrier or a belt and grab 2 after the side saddle is empty. Loading 4 was so new to me I lost it after the first shotgun stage but I hope to get some more practice in before my next match.

The biggest thing about this sport is the willingness to help others. I know I appreciate the info being shared.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

So what do you guys do to keep yourselves focused when coming up with a plan and then sticking to it when it's time to shoot?

You've gotten some great advice here and I wouldn't change a word of it.

At a macro level you're really talking about a complex choreography. The single biggest problem inexperienced shooters have, and the easiest to fix is the lack of a plan or the inability to execute a plan.

Ideally you want to know well in advance every step you're going to take, where you're going to take each shot, where you're going to reload, etc. I like to break stages down into small component parts so that I'm just executing a series of "go here, do this" tasks. A multigun match like Saturday's is almost like two stages put together but is exponentially more complex than a single gun stage. I try to engineer enough 'slack' into my 'choreography' so that I have flexibility to recover from things that don't go according to plan.

Visualization as jar said is critically important. You should be able to walk through your plan in real time in your mind's eye. Shortly before I shoot I like to be able to close my eyes and walk through every step and detail of my plan from the buzzer to the last shot. But it's something I need to work harder on and be more disciplined about.

Visualization also requires a very positive mental attitude. You need the ability to see yourself shooting the stage well. Not necessarily fast, not necessarily first, but according to your plan. This is particularity important when things don't go well and where mental toughness comes into play. You need to constantly be in the moment and let go of whatever happened on the last stage or even the last shot. Once you squeeze the trigger it's time to move on and continue to execute your plan. You cannot make up for mistakes. You can only try to minimize them going forward and try to shoot as smoothly as possible AT your ability level. Consistency and minimizing your mistakes are two of the most important elements.

Second guessing your plan after watching other shooters is a fatal mistake. I'll sometimes change my plan, but not unless I have plenty of time to absorb it and only if I understand the strengths of the shooter I'm copying from. Most competitors are generous with their plans and advice and most want to win or lose on as level a playing field as possible. Just make sure that what's works well for them plays to your strengths.

 

[MFP4073]

One small thing to add to Knuckle Dragger's (and other's) comments; I like to walk through stages with my shooting buds. Each of us has different strengths and weaknesses and we understand that.

Walking through stages together to identify the mose efficient way to shoot a stage pushes us to improve on our weak areas. I find walking through a stage with Lugnut or JT or HDGun or many others is helpful. I also find it motivates me to focus on the task at hand. The collaboration helps identify the optimum way to shoot it -then it comes down to who can execute it best. At the end of the day it really helps identify where improvement is needed for everybody.

Also- to help stay focused, properly execute, and adjust if necessary, I use round counting in my head. Almost like a weird sort of meditation when working through stages. It helps to keep me to stay in control and flow. If I know what is left in my gun(s) at all times, it allows me to adjust a plan, reload quickly, know when I need to take that extra split second on a piece of steel so as not to miss ect... ect...

 

[Dan S]

Go through this thread.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/139861-So-you-want-to-shoot-3-gun

 

[Dan S]

Also- to help stay focused, properly execute, and adjust if necessary, I use round counting in my head. Almost like a weird sort of meditation when working through stages. It helps to keep me to stay in control and flow. If I know what is left in my gun(s) at all times, it allows me to adjust a plan, reload quickly, know when I need to take that extra split second on a piece of steel so as not to miss ect... ect...

Matt,
With a lot of 3 gun matches, you won't do that and keep track. Stage 4 had 40 rounds rifle, 36 pistol, minimum.

 

[MFP4073]

Dan-

I am by no means an expert but I keep track of it and found out over the years that it works for me. Pistol, two-gun, three-gun, steel plates whatever... If I am handling a pistol it is typically 10+1, 17+1 or 20+1 rounds (depending on which I am using), rifle is typically 29+1 rounds (sometimes 19+1 or 39+1)for me, and the shotgun is 8+1 unless specified to start with a different capacity. With the shotgun I count up when loading and down when shooting. Each time I switch to a different gun I work within the appropriate round count for that gun.

Perhaps I was not clear enough. I am simply counting the rounds I have in the gun and how many I have shot. If you know what you start with in each gun and what you have shot and /or reloaded while working stages they go a lot smoother. But I know you already know that.

I remember struggling in the beginning to figure things out like everybody does. Hell, I still struggle now! This is just one thing that has helped me in all of the shooting games I enjoy. I really started it when "the guys" were teaching me shoot steel matches and I just hung on to it. If you lose count shooting steel - you lose.

In short- If I am shooting a gun, I try and keep track of what is in it at all times. And I use the count to help me focus. That is not to say I don't loose track sometimes!

ETA: I should add it gets a hell of lot more complicated when you have to manage a mix of slugs and shot on the same stage. Lucky for us at Pelham, they set it up so we could start or finish with slugs.

 

[Dan S]

Try needing to keep track of slugs that must be shot in multiple places in a stage! Have a miss then have shoot one knockdown, then go back for the slug, shoot a bunch and back to slug before dumping the shotgun. Much more fun!

Matt, do you count cards in Blackjack too?

 

[MFP4073]

Jeez Dan... What are you trying to say?? I am not Rain Man-weird or anything like that!

I think of myself more like the guy in Office Space who wants his stapler.

 

[Dan S]

Jeez Dan... What are you trying to say?? I am not Rain Man-weird or anything like that!

I think of myself more like the guy in Office Space who wants his stapler.

Nah, you're not weird. We all have different ways of dealing with things.

 

[Nuke8401]

wrong thread
never mind!