Winchester has a $2/box rebate on AA's right now up to $100.
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3-gun noob advice kilothread
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TY43215
NES Member
I shoot B&P slugs. I'm hoping more come in soon, they've been out of stock in the US for a while.
As far as a "cheaper" brand of shells go Rio are just as good as the Estates. And an equal quality shell to the AA's is a Rem STS. I try to stay away from any shell that has a steel base, brass is much better, way to hard on extractors.
TY43215
NES Member
I will find some to test and make sure my 11-87 likes them.
Anything will cycle a stock 11-87 action with the exception of light target loads (usually 1oz). Just make sure they are 2 3/4 dram or higher and you should be fine.
TY43215
NES Member
The Estate loads I usually run are 3dram 8s and they run great. I have seen guys at matches having trouble but not sure what they use.
Will you be ready for the Independent SG match in a few weeks? Then week after supposed to be a 3 gun in Pelham but both are on Saturdays
My hand is still not ready for shooting. Handgun recoil still doesn't sound like fun and I don't trust myself drawing yet. I'm going to shoot some sporting clays tomorrow we'll see how it feels. Surgeon says no work for at least 3 more weeks.
Jeff,
Do you think I like to type just for the heck of it? Geeeze. I'm not a great shooter, but, I do tend to keep track of the technical stuff. I've been at matches where Remington shells had the rim torn off, Federal is so so, some crimps are not so good, Winchester cheapo, crimps out right suck. I run them through an old MEC 650 just to recrimp them enough to work for trap! I'll use the recrimps for practice, not a match.
Estate shells available through Cabellas are decent, much better than the Walmart trio mentioned above. Rio shells have been awesome. A friend whose club makes large orders gets them for me. Slugs, I just got a bunch of Fiocchi 1 oz, at 1150. They shoot pretty well, don't knock the heck out of me in my pump gun, and seem to be pretty regularly available. All good things.
Where do you get the slugs from? I went out to BassPro Shops and they didn't have ANY (no 9mm either!).
Ohh ok, gotchya.
Looks like they won't be needed for the New Bedford match, anyway, so not a big concern at the moment.
I saw some discussion earlier about setting up mag carriers on belts. Do you have any experiences you can relate, or recommendations on which to choose?
I've got a Wilderness Tactical Instructors belt that has served me well for single gun games, but I am running into some issues getting all the gear setup on it for 3 gun.
Also, thanks for all the great information in this thread!
Looks like they won't be needed for the New Bedford match, anyway, so not a big concern at the moment.
I saw some discussion earlier about setting up mag carriers on belts. Do you have any experiences you can relate, or recommendations on which to choose?
I've got a Wilderness Tactical Instructors belt that has served me well for single gun games, but I am running into some issues getting all the gear setup on it for 3 gun.
Also, thanks for all the great information in this thread!
I was there on June 15 and went up and down all the aisles in the gun section, must have missed that special case I guess.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
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meth0d said:I was there on June 15 and went up and down all the aisles in the gun section, must have missed that special case I guess.
Same day I was there! You've got the reloading isle, then ammo, then in the next isle there's a smaller case and the slugs are in the far left of the case, for future reference. It took me a while to find them too.
Remember that you won't be using 5 pistol mags, 30 rounds of shotgun and 60 rounds of rifle all at once. Well, maybe at the Ironman.
I have changed over to the ELS system. The primary drawback is cost. I was fortunate enough to get a Safariland certificate last year at Rocky Mountain. This system offers the best flexibility for 3 gun, you clip and unclip to change what you need on the belt. The belt is VERY stiff. For the ocassional player, again a stiff belt helps a lot. Wilderness has a belt with a stiffening band in it, I'd use that one. Blade Tech tech lock attachments will fit a lot of things and be adapted to others. They offer an easier way to add and remove carriers on the belt between stages.
Depending on your pistol, Blade Tech makes a Quad mag pouch. I got one for 1911 mags and it helped greatly with space at a recent Heavy Metal match, leaving more room for shotshell caddies and M1A mags.
What kind of shotshell carriers are you using or thinking of buying? This is one area that there is a ton of options, all good, some may work better for you than others. Keep in mind you may need room for other stuff on your belt. Shotshell carriers will eat a lot of money too.
ELS looks pretty slick. I'll look into the BladeTech too, thank you.
I picked up four of the California Competition Works 4-shell carriers with the standard metal belt clip.
The only issue I have had with them so far, is that the Wilderness Tactical belt I mentioned is 1.5" and I think the clip fits up to 2" or 2 1/4" belts, so there is a bit of free space between the belt and the clip. When I go to pull the shells out, the carrier rides up on the belt, making it a bit awkward. I defintely need to practice with them more, and see if I can get some kind of spacer to fill the void there.
I picked up four of the California Competition Works 4-shell carriers with the standard metal belt clip.
The only issue I have had with them so far, is that the Wilderness Tactical belt I mentioned is 1.5" and I think the clip fits up to 2" or 2 1/4" belts, so there is a bit of free space between the belt and the clip. When I go to pull the shells out, the carrier rides up on the belt, making it a bit awkward. I defintely need to practice with them more, and see if I can get some kind of spacer to fill the void there.
TY43215
NES Member
If you put some of the velcro hook side on the back of the clip, it will hold on the fabric of your pants. It's better than nothing and seems to work.
As much as the ELS is a great idea, it is pricey. A CR Speed belt/under belt works well. The velcro hook on the back of all gear locks into the under belt. It takes a lot to move it. Yes, it is not as good as the ELS but the belt only costs about $60 rather than a couple hundred.
If you plan to get into three gun and travel to play, the ELS is worth the investment. For me and local matches, it makes no sense since I already had the CR Speed set up for three different guns. I watch the main forum I read for the belts used.
I took a CR Speed and set it up for 3 gun with all but the holster. My holster is set with a blade teck Teck lock so it is easy to change belt to belt. I took 2 Brownell AR Mag holders and stacked them making a double. I put that on a Blade tech DOH hanger with a tech lok and it sits lower and more out of the way. On either side of it there is a pistol mag holder. I use full cap mags with gives me 18 at LAMR plus 2-18 round reloads. Front has 2 4 round shell holders and 2 6 round but I also use a side saddle on the gun.
what the stage is tells me what will be on the belt. The Kydex isn't heavy. What goes in the Kydex is. If there is a safe area close and I don't need a pistol, I will bag it.
People upgrade gear on a regular basis. I have taken advantage of that and bought used. It worked for me. My gear is not the newest and best but it works and worked well on a budget. Rifle was my big investment, shotgun used from Texas, pistol used from a shooter around here.
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California Comp works sells conversions for Tech Locks. It's almost cheaper to buy ones already set up. I'm using Mark Otto 4 round, (4) AP Custom 4x4 (2) and still have my Choate 6 round (4) I have gone to the line with 44 rounds of shotgun on my belt, and used all of them.
Sticky Velcro is your friend. I have used it on my older Safariland belts, not only does it keep carriers in place, but, with a lot of stuff on the belt, it helps keep the inner and outer belts together.
Sticky Velcro is your friend. I have used it on my older Safariland belts, not only does it keep carriers in place, but, with a lot of stuff on the belt, it helps keep the inner and outer belts together.
My current work schedule makes it tough to shoot as often as I 'd like, so I have been approaching it with budget in mind, until I can commit some more serious time to shooting and traveling for more matches.
In hindsight I probably should have gone for the tech locks on the CCW carriers, but I'm hoping/thinking it won't be that big an issue to get out to the occasional match. Tonight I'll try to get some velcro and do some more practicing (got some dummy rounds on the way from Brownells).
I really appreciate the information guys
In hindsight I probably should have gone for the tech locks on the CCW carriers, but I'm hoping/thinking it won't be that big an issue to get out to the occasional match. Tonight I'll try to get some velcro and do some more practicing (got some dummy rounds on the way from Brownells).
I really appreciate the information guys
As for as making this work, I currently use this belt, I put the buckle in front of my right front pocket which allows me to mount 2 shotgun carriers in the center front, 1 above the left front pocket 2 pistol mag pouches in normal location, and an AR mag in my left rear pocket. I use techlocks on everything but the holster. You could also move the buckle to the right rear position just behind the holster to allow 4 shotgun carries up front (I use DIY 6x6 cariiers so I only need 3). I started with Choate 6 rounders and have done a bunch of DYI changes to them. Knowing what I know now I would start with better carrieirs 4 quality 4x4s (32 rounds).
I am planning to go to an ELS setup soon, hands down winner for 3 GUN.
I think an inner/outer with techlocks would work well but still be second place to ELS.
David E.
Yeah, I think I will be able to get it done with the Wilderness Tactical belt, at least for my first match in the 3 gun arena.
I was able to get a comfortable setup for each of the 2 gun stages based on what Dave mentioned in the info thread for the RGNB match. 1 shotshell caddy on my right, just a head of the hip, then pistol holster when necessary; 3 shot shell caddys on the left starting just ahead of my hip and working back, then either pistol or rifle carriers depending on the stage requirements. I've also got a 5 shell slip on caddy on the butt stock, which will give me 7+1 in the gun, 16 on the belt, and 5 on the stock.
Off to do some more loading practice!![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
I was able to get a comfortable setup for each of the 2 gun stages based on what Dave mentioned in the info thread for the RGNB match. 1 shotshell caddy on my right, just a head of the hip, then pistol holster when necessary; 3 shot shell caddys on the left starting just ahead of my hip and working back, then either pistol or rifle carriers depending on the stage requirements. I've also got a 5 shell slip on caddy on the butt stock, which will give me 7+1 in the gun, 16 on the belt, and 5 on the stock.
Off to do some more loading practice!
I've been thinking about the New Bedford match this past weekend, and am considering some areas of my game to improve on; one of the, (many ), things that was giving me some trouble was coming up with a solid plan on how to shoot each stage, and then sticking to that plan once the buzzer went off and/or staying on track when I ran into issues.
For example, my squad started on Stage 3; I had a plan in my mind, but after seeing a few people run through I started thinking I should shoot that way, or this way, or do x y z then a b c...by the time I got up there I didn't have a clear plan in my head. Then when I ran into trouble grabbing shells from the caddy I got even more distracted and was shooting targets out of order, had to back up to get 1 last steel plate before dumping the shotgun...then my worst error of the day I forgot to step back over the fault line before blasting away with my pistol, costing big penalty time.
Now I would like to mostly attribute this to nerves and inexperience, being the first stage of the day in my first multi gun match, but I was flip flopping a bit on a couple of the other stages too, as in stage 4 I ended up shooting an array of half sized targets twice with my rifle.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
So what do you guys do to keep yourselves focused when coming up with a plan and then sticking to it when it's time to shoot?
), things that was giving me some trouble was coming up with a solid plan on how to shoot each stage, and then sticking to that plan once the buzzer went off and/or staying on track when I ran into issues.For example, my squad started on Stage 3; I had a plan in my mind, but after seeing a few people run through I started thinking I should shoot that way, or this way, or do x y z then a b c...by the time I got up there I didn't have a clear plan in my head. Then when I ran into trouble grabbing shells from the caddy I got even more distracted and was shooting targets out of order, had to back up to get 1 last steel plate before dumping the shotgun...then my worst error of the day I forgot to step back over the fault line before blasting away with my pistol, costing big penalty time.
Now I would like to mostly attribute this to nerves and inexperience, being the first stage of the day in my first multi gun match, but I was flip flopping a bit on a couple of the other stages too, as in stage 4 I ended up shooting an array of half sized targets twice with my rifle.
So what do you guys do to keep yourselves focused when coming up with a plan and then sticking to it when it's time to shoot?
TY43215
NES Member
A plan is the most difficult part for many. When Plan A crashes and burns, the ability to go to plan B takes a long time.
I enjoy watching other shooters but my plan needs to take into account my weaknesses and inabilities. I need to figure the least amount of movement I can so sometimes I will take some longer shots most will not take. You will also see me take penalties people will not usually get. I will, at times, take them to keep from going into a position not good for me. Example: I think I was the only one on our squad (probably any squad) that took the small targets and the 2 large targets on stage one from the barricade. I was there, the targets were there, I knew I would hit, and it left me one less back rotation to the left. I thought of taking the center small target from the side of the barricade because I was not going to kneel. I didn't have to. Was it a good plan? Not the best but it worked for me.
The hardest thing for me is keeping track of targets as the day gets longer. Having to figure reloads and where to start again many times confuses me. For that reason, I usually shoot a pistol with 18 round mags, a rifle that rarely needs to be reloaded, and I then have room on my belt for plenty of shotgun ammo. (I did not shoot my usual pistol this week and it cost me on stage 4).
My limited experience says form your plan. Tape targets as much as you can until it is your time to shoot and walk through your plan as you tape. Plan your reloads in your head and never reload from slide lock. Slide lock is a surprise and messes your head. When you have your plan set, no matter what you see stick to it. Even if you see someone that seems to have a better plan, that is their plan not yours. Maybe next time you can utilize some of their ideas.
If you have a malfunction, clear it and go on. It happens. If it happens a lot, get your gear fixed or make it part of the plan![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Shoot more USPSA and work on forming your own plan. It will help.
No matter what you do, NEVER watch me and try to use a plan you see me use. It will only mess you up![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
I enjoy watching other shooters but my plan needs to take into account my weaknesses and inabilities. I need to figure the least amount of movement I can so sometimes I will take some longer shots most will not take. You will also see me take penalties people will not usually get. I will, at times, take them to keep from going into a position not good for me. Example: I think I was the only one on our squad (probably any squad) that took the small targets and the 2 large targets on stage one from the barricade. I was there, the targets were there, I knew I would hit, and it left me one less back rotation to the left. I thought of taking the center small target from the side of the barricade because I was not going to kneel. I didn't have to. Was it a good plan? Not the best but it worked for me.
The hardest thing for me is keeping track of targets as the day gets longer. Having to figure reloads and where to start again many times confuses me. For that reason, I usually shoot a pistol with 18 round mags, a rifle that rarely needs to be reloaded, and I then have room on my belt for plenty of shotgun ammo. (I did not shoot my usual pistol this week and it cost me on stage 4).
My limited experience says form your plan. Tape targets as much as you can until it is your time to shoot and walk through your plan as you tape. Plan your reloads in your head and never reload from slide lock. Slide lock is a surprise and messes your head. When you have your plan set, no matter what you see stick to it. Even if you see someone that seems to have a better plan, that is their plan not yours. Maybe next time you can utilize some of their ideas.
If you have a malfunction, clear it and go on. It happens. If it happens a lot, get your gear fixed or make it part of the plan
Shoot more USPSA and work on forming your own plan. It will help.
No matter what you do, NEVER watch me and try to use a plan you see me use. It will only mess you up
As Gary said, plan your reload points as much as possible. If a stage has activators, try to shoot them first, shoot targets in groups (don't bounce from group to group, unless you know you won't get lost). Why did you have issues grabbing shotshells? Were the caddies moving around? If so, Velcro is your friend, it can be used on the caddies to anchor them. A dual belt system also helps there. Were shell bouncing around in the caddies or worse bouncing out? Again Velcro to the rescue, use the smooth part and stick narrow strips inside the caddies to stabilize the shells. At least you didn't leave all your shotshells on the table!![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
In any case shotgun loading is something that must be practiced to gain proficiency.
You obviously watched me shoot stage 3, I didn't step back over the fault line either, and got whacked with penalties too.
Your shotgun has no choke or choke tubes. Either get an unported barrel with tubes, or if you can find a longer barrel with ports, have it cut and rethreaded for chokes. Chokes will give you more flexibility on targets, particularly longer shots.
Stage 4 was easy to shoot, and easy to mess up, take your pick. All the rifle targets, except 3, could be shot from the farther end. Pistol was pretty much the same. Again, group the targets.
Watch the better shooters, you'll pick things up, but, don't change your plan prior to starting.
In any case shotgun loading is something that must be practiced to gain proficiency.You obviously watched me shoot stage 3, I didn't step back over the fault line either, and got whacked with penalties too.
Your shotgun has no choke or choke tubes. Either get an unported barrel with tubes, or if you can find a longer barrel with ports, have it cut and rethreaded for chokes. Chokes will give you more flexibility on targets, particularly longer shots.
Stage 4 was easy to shoot, and easy to mess up, take your pick. All the rifle targets, except 3, could be shot from the farther end. Pistol was pretty much the same. Again, group the targets.
Watch the better shooters, you'll pick things up, but, don't change your plan prior to starting.
Visualization is key. Come up with a plan and stick to it. Don't tape or reset when you're on deck. Stand back and visualize your plan over and over. The goal is to be able to see the whole stage go by in your head with your eyes closed. Then when you're up, it's like pressing play on a tape recorder. Shooting USPSA pistol will help a lot, as planning is required, but you don't have the distraction of multiple guns.
