300+ yard ranges in Mass

AHM

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To be clear, Harvard doesn't allow non-members on the 200/300 Range. Membership is a prerequisite for qualification.
Two distinct concepts,
two distinct assertions.

What if its a qualified former member? Myself would fall into that now
No go. Qualified members only.
Wat? Mega gay.
The Harvard Sportsmen's Club Handbook

...​
200/300-Yard Range
ALL General Range And Safety Rules Apply!​
Qualified HSC Members Only. Qualified members will be issued​
a supplementary sticker for their membership card which must be​
produced upon demand. No guests or non-qualified members​
may shoot at this range.​
 

Dench

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Two distinct concepts,
two distinct assertions.


The Harvard Sportsmen's Club Handbook

...​
200/300-Yard Range
ALL General Range And Safety Rules Apply!​
Qualified HSC Members Only. Qualified members will be issued​
a supplementary sticker for their membership card which must be​
produced upon demand. No guests or non-qualified members​
may shoot at this range.​

Shit. That handbook is some serious business. It would never contain stupid rules like no steel outside of the machine gun ranges or anything. [rofl] (since changed! Progress!)

I understand though. When I left Harvard in 2021 I forgot how to shoot from 100-300 yards. It's noted in the handbook. I think the longest range within a hour drive for me here in SWFL is 1,500 yards. I don't dare shoot in the 100-300 ranges on this range. Only 0-100 or 300+!

Not a big deal though, I can't see a situation where I'd be even near that range. It is a bullshit administrative rule though.
 

M1911

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Wat? Mega gay.
The rule book says qualified members only. You are no longer a member.

As part of the leadership of a different club, I rewrote the range rules twice. It's very easy to criticize range rules, particularly when you don't have the context for the range rules. There were some range rules that it took years (and the changing of a board member) before I could convince the board to remove.

It's quite a bit harder to write and enforce range rules.
 

Dench

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The rule book says qualified members only. You are no longer a member.

As part of the leadership of a different club, I rewrote the range rules twice. It's very easy to criticize range rules, particularly when you don't have the context for the range rules. There were some range rules that it took years (and the changing of a board member) before I could convince the board to remove.

It's quite a bit harder to write and enforce range rules.

Why demand membership? Isn't qualification the important thing?
 
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The rule book says qualified members only. You are no longer a member.

As part of the leadership of a different club, I rewrote the range rules twice. It's very easy to criticize range rules, particularly when you don't have the context for the range rules. There were some range rules that it took years (and the changing of a board member) before I could convince the board to remove.

It's quite a bit harder to write and enforce range rules.
Very well stated. Don't like all the club rules ? It's real simple, find another club to join.
 

M1911

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Why demand membership? Isn't qualification the important thing?
Neither you nor I were part of the committee that wrote the rules, so we don't have all the context.

As you know, a single escaped round can result in a range being shut down permanently. This is a far greater risk in eastern MA than it is in some rural locales. You've shot on that range, so you know that while the berm is substantial, it isn't like we are shooting towards a large hill (as is true at some other clubs). So it wouldn't take much for someone being inattentive to clear the berm.

Why should the club provide the use of valuable 200/300 range (along with the attendant risk to the club) to someone who isn't paying for it? And since you no longer live in New England, why do you care?
 

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So you're just stirring the pot.

With HSC? Sure. HSC is probably the best range in MA. That said, for the 12 years I was a member there one thing was like clockwork, people defending dumbass policies for reasons. And guess what? When one of those dumbass policies was finally changed all the brilliant minds who defended it just rolled over to the next bullshit policy to cling to. HSC was acting like they'd run out of body bags for all the death and destruction putting a plate on the 100 yard range would create. I remember those conversations, and they went just like this one now. You people will justify everything for any reason simply to keep a rule in place. They made it real clear 10 years ago that I didn't know what I was talking about. That I didn't know the risks. That I just didnt get it. Yet here we are, all that shits out there now. [rofl]

It's not as bad as Danvers Fish and Game, but holy shit the people who cling to rules for rules are cut from the same cloth.
 

M1911

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With HSC? Sure. HSC is probably the best range in MA. That said, for the 12 years I was a member there one thing was like clockwork, people defending dumbass policies for reasons. And guess what? When one of those dumbass policies was finally changed all the brilliant minds who defended it just rolled over to the next bullshit policy to cling to. HSC was acting like they'd run out of body bags for all the death and destruction putting a plate on the 100 yard range would create. I remember those conversations, and they went just like this one now. You people will justify everything for any reason simply to keep a rule in place. They made it real clear 10 years ago that I didn't know what I was talking about. That I didn't know the risks. That I just didnt get it. Yet here we are, all that shits out there now. [rofl]

It's not as bad as Danvers Fish and Game, but holy shit the people who cling to rules for rules are cut from the same cloth.
I was an officer or board member of a club for more than a dozen years and the same less than 10% of the club members did all the work for the club. As a result of that experience, I give the benefit of the doubt to club officers and board members. Lots of folks in the peanut gallery at clubs bitch about how the club should do X or Y but are unwilling to ever get off their butt to help. So I have basically no patience for such loudmouths.

Unlike you, I have had experience in changing range rules at a club -- it took me about 10 years of work to get some changes approved. I know how hard this is to do. Organizations are made of people and it is difficult to convince people to change their mind. It requires calm persuasion over a long period of time. You, instead, would rather mock people on the internet. Good for you. Enjoy the internet points that you've won.

Considering that you live more than 1,000 miles from HSC, you bitching about HSC's policies, which do not impact you, is just you behaving badly. You've made no impact on HSC through this discussion, other than for people to form opinions about you. Congrats.
 

Dench

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I was an officer or board member of a club for more than a dozen years and the same less than 10% of the club members did all the work for the club. As a result of that experience, I give the benefit of the doubt to club officers and board members. Lots of folks in the peanut gallery at clubs bitch about how the club should do X or Y but are unwilling to ever get off their butt to help. So I have basically no patience for such loudmouths.

Unlike you, I have had experience in changing range rules at a club -- it took me about 10 years of work to get some changes approved. I know how hard this is to do. Organizations are made of people and it is difficult to convince people to change their mind. It requires calm persuasion over a long period of time. You, instead, would rather mock people on the internet. Good for you. Enjoy the internet points that you've won.

Considering that you live more than 1,000 miles from HSC, you bitching about HSC's policies, which do not impact you, is just you behaving badly. You've made no impact on HSC through this discussion, other than for people to form opinions about you. Congrats.

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I could very well be.

I can still go to HSC as a guest. If that's correct, as far as I know due to this thread I can use every range except the 200/300 range. And the only reason I can't use that range is simply because I am not a paid member any longer. if that's all correct, I think that's silly. If anyone can explain why a former qualified member can no longer use that one specific range I'd be curious. If I had to guess maybe it's to keep a lane open for actual members? That would make sense and I'd understand. I'm not sure it's the case, though.

One of the reasons I was not involved in much at HSC was how I was treated by a lot of the old guys. No one was rude to me outright, but plenty of people were dismissive and not interested (plates being a big one). So, I simply did not want to spend additional time around those people. It was also 70 minutes from where I lived so that was another hurtle to being additionally involved. Otherwise I tried my best to keep ranges cleaner after I left than how I found them. I didn't go to HSC for social reasons. Plenty of people do and I understand the attraction and see how it's fun. Just was not my thing. In other words, I was nothing more than a person who shot there (poorly) every so often. I had no clout or influence.

I'm not mocking anyone specifically either. Just group think. people need to think things through objectively and stop taking negative feedback about 3rd parties so personally (specifically you). All the plate concerns that were given to me were made up or very out of context. The people at the time simply did not want them in use (and they refused to state it that simply). The justifications they gave were false. So, while I was unsuccessful in changing them, another NES member years later was. And he deserves credit for having the time and patience to change peoples minds as you said. At the time, I wasn't able to give much time and effort outside of presenting the data I could find. I was in school full time, working full time and I lived quite far away. And as I mentioned, I was turned off from interacting with the board from then on. In an era where I had little free time, trying to negotiate with people who aren't interested just wasn't in the cards. And for the sake of openness and transparency, even these mentioned parties here were still running the club very well at that time. They just simply did not want to use plates and were not honest nor educated about the rationale. That's all I'm pointing out here. They weren't bad people. Or lazy people. They just didn't care about plates, my opinions/factual data or the reality of plate use. It's not really a big deal and its lesser so that it worked out regardless down the road.

I already stated I think HSC is probably the best club in MA. with that praise comes a nod that it's being run well and correctly. HSC is a GREAT club. And it's leaders to a fantastic job the majority of the time. However, like every human on Earth they make mistakes. And god forbid I point it out. I don't know why you think I'm attempting to be mean to people or earn internet points. Not my intention. I'll tell you what; I can say without a doubt that you or the old or new HSC board would run those clubs better than I. I'm no wizard of running a gun club. And you'll never find me in a million years pretending I'm someone who I'm not. And if you think I am, let me know so I can self assess. Other than that I can give my opinions about whatever I want here on NES. if you don't like it to bad. add me to ignore if you don't want to read them or discuss. I'm here to chat about anything and everything.

I give you a ton of credit for working with people who cling onto ideas while they cant articulate why. I mean it. Its not the best skill in my toolbox. Takes an amazing amount of patience.

If you don't like my HSC hot takes you're really not going to like my danvers fish and game opinions. [rofl]
 
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AHM

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... When I left Harvard in 2021 I forgot how to shoot from 100-300 yards. It's noted in the handbook. I think the longest range within a hour drive for me here in SWFL is 1,500 yards. I don't dare shoot in the 100-300 ranges on this range. Only 0-100 or 300+!

Not a big deal though, I can't see a situation where I'd be even near that range. It is a bullshit administrative rule though.
Let me predict the bruising rationale:

"If you want to skinflint,
don't do it by using Harvard ranges without paying membership dues -
get a frigging ham radio license. @one-eyed Jack will even help you".
 
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Am I hearing that some of these clubs have permanent steel plates set up on the ranges? Sure would be nice not to have to set up and break down my plates every time I shoot.
 

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Am I hearing that some of these clubs have permanent steel plates set up on the ranges? Sure would be nice not to have to set up and break down my plates every time I shoot.
HSC has them, and even at 100yds range it is holding up now after the last redesign. :)
all was still there yesterday, it is a record - they were shot down previously on a weekly basis.
there are of course plenty of idiots who still damage plates and hurt themselves in the process. last was at the 25yds plates where some imbeciles kept shooting rifles at them, and someone was even hit with a ricochets. so, no plates there, anymore.
 
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