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.380 Semi Auto suggestions for female shooter?
- Thread starter MJM
- Start date
My first sugestion would be a SIG P232. Second would be one of the Beretta models 84, 85, etc. As you are not going to CC it, I would stay away from the tiny pocket models and get one of the mid sized models. The one exception is that I would not get the new Walther P380. It has been having too many reported problems.
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![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Go with a good name brand hollow point. Golddots or Golden Saber. Cor-bon is not bad if you stick with the ones loaded with Barnes DPX bullets.
I will just add that my Walther PPS in 9mm is as managble if not more so than my Walther PPK/s in .380. But go with what you can shoot well. If .380 is the most you are comfortable with, buy quality in both firearm and amunition and be sure to train with it and make sure it is 100% reliable with the ammo you choose.
I will just add that my Walther PPS in 9mm is as managble if not more so than my Walther PPK/s in .380. But go with what you can shoot well. If .380 is the most you are comfortable with, buy quality in both firearm and amunition and be sure to train with it and make sure it is 100% reliable with the ammo you choose.
Mass-diver
NES Member
Why?
A small, possibly unreliable semiauto in a weak caliber is just about the opposite of what most people want for home defense.
The whole reason people buy .380s is because they are so light to carry, but choosing one for HD you negate the one positive of the caliber (and platform).
Can you imagine someone breaking into your house at night? Hyped up drugs with a baseball bat - and she reaches for the tiny little .380; which BTW, IME with both the sig and walter ppk are super susceptible to limp wristing. Seriously, I could not think of a poorer choice. And, with the blowback design, lots of these .380s kick more or the same as a 9mm anywhere.
thanks for all the good info. The reasoning behind the .380 as opposed to the shotgun, 9mm or rabid animal is her personal preference. She has shot well a .380 and felt that the recoil was much more managable than the 9mm. In regards to caliber and the home invader hopped up on drugs i believe the .380 would be better than nothing. That being said, there are many reports of drugged up criminals being shot multiple times with .45 that continue their assault. i am not a huge fan of the .380 myself but she was so i figured i'd run with it, that is if any good suggestions were had.
For home defense, I would definitely lean towards a 9mm at a minimum. even a smaller 9mm may be nice (see the Kahr PM9, I have yet to shoot one, but all of the reviews I have read have been generally positive, with exception to the price). If a .380 is non-negotiable for whatever reason and it is for HD primarily with no real concern for CC then I would say check out the Beretta or the Sig P232. But only if a 9mm is not an option for whatever reason. the .380 are great mouseguns for either a backup or extreme CCW, but I would ideally rather rely on a 9mm at a minimum for HD
Mass-diver
NES Member
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but I don't think many people would compare the stopping power of .45 to a .380.
A little pocket pistol is .380 is better than nothing, but might also give one a false sense of security. If this is a friend of your I would suggest that you make an effort to get her to change her mind. For many applications there is no right or wrong answer, but in this case (HD) a .380 is such a suboptimal choice.
The obvious choice here is a 20gauge shotgun with slugs.
For a recoil-sensitive girl?
Chuck
NES Member
If she's shot a 380ACP and liked it, then she can handle more recoil then my wife. She hates every DA or DAO 380 I ever owned; both blowback and recoil operated. Mostly because of the trigger pull. But flash too (remember for home defense to test fire in low light conditions). For her carry piece she's thinking Kahr K9 because the metal weight will soak up some recoil, more so then the MK9. But, for home defense she actually loves the full size 1911, far and away her favorite pistol. Second is a 1st Generation Glock 17, with the trigger work I did on it and the closer grip then the later generations (she's got small hands). Good luck find the "perfect" pistol!
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+1 and I carried a German-made PPK/s for >20 years. Still own it, just won't carry it any more.
For HD, I'd recommend a M&P 9 full-size with Apex trigger or a trigger job (yes, even in a Free State) or Glock 17 . . . depends on what fits her hand and she can shoot better.
Also have her fire a 1911 . . . if she had big hands, she can get a double stack. 1911 is heavy but handles recoil well (steel frame models only).
If she is comfortable with and likes 380's, go with it. 380's being to small for personal protection is the old way of thinking. I challange anyone to be hit with six or seven rounds of modern hollow point and tell me that it doesn't hurt at all. There are many article about how newer ammo available today make this not true anymore. Hell, more people are killed in this country every year by 22's then any other caliber.
I disagree. The .380 now is just as crappy as it was 20+ years ago, "new ammo" doesn't change the game here. The .380 ACP is still marginal there's no getting around it. Changing the bullet will not fix the power limitations inherent to the cartridge. The problem is the bullet cannot be pushed fast enough to really activate the JHP. The best you can hope for really is hot ball ammo, more than anything else. Is it better than nothing? Sure... WAY better... but given a choice (which it sounds like can be made in this case) it's not even on the top 10 unless we're talking about guns you slide into your pocket.
Why advocate for such a crappy cartridge in a home defense role when the alternatives are far better- a medium to full sized 9mm handgun is not going to be any more abusive in terms of recoil (in some cases it will actually be tamer!) it will have way better stopping power, (good JHPs can actually expand fully and penetrate to the depths required to reach vitals) and the ammo will cost half as much, making it more likely the gun owner will practice with that firearm. That's what we call a win-win proposition.
Dead people don't really tell us much about wound ballistics or stopping power (eg, how long it actually took the threat to stop doing whatever it was they were doing, which is all one is really concerned about in a self defense realm). Lots of gangbangers have killed each other with subcaliber garbage, but that doesn't mean that it's the best choice for self defense. If "dead people" were an accurate measure of stopping power, .25 ACP would be probably in the top 10, even though it's basically the most anemic and worthless cartridge money can buy.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
-Mike
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To back up what Mike is stating above . . .
- I hand-loaded hot .380 loads with Sierra JHP back some 30 years ago. I retrieved a number of them after shooting them at 50 yds into tires covered with 2-3" of dirt. Most were NOT deformed in any way and as a matter of fact I recall re-loading a couple of them.
- The guns used were OMC Backup .380 (AMT's earlier name) and German PPK/s.
- Also shot them thru gallon milk jugs filled with water with the same result.
- The case is small and thus limits how much powder anyone can load in it. It makes for a puny round ballistically!
Also understand the gun's purpose . . .
- To STOP the threat IMMEDIATELY so that you/your loved ones aren't hurt/killed.
- It doesn't matter if the perp dies hours later. If he's still "in the fight" NOW, you have major problems on your hand.
- Many with .22 wounds bleed out internally . . . but this is a slow process and doesn't help the victim at the time of the threat.
- I hand-loaded hot .380 loads with Sierra JHP back some 30 years ago. I retrieved a number of them after shooting them at 50 yds into tires covered with 2-3" of dirt. Most were NOT deformed in any way and as a matter of fact I recall re-loading a couple of them.
- The guns used were OMC Backup .380 (AMT's earlier name) and German PPK/s.
- Also shot them thru gallon milk jugs filled with water with the same result.
- The case is small and thus limits how much powder anyone can load in it. It makes for a puny round ballistically!
Also understand the gun's purpose . . .
- To STOP the threat IMMEDIATELY so that you/your loved ones aren't hurt/killed.
- It doesn't matter if the perp dies hours later. If he's still "in the fight" NOW, you have major problems on your hand.
- Many with .22 wounds bleed out internally . . . but this is a slow process and doesn't help the victim at the time of the threat.
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I know you mentioned no revo's, but a 38/357 in a K frame sized gun (or L if it fits her hands) is a great home defense gun. IMHO there is nothing like not having to think about anything but pulling the trigger (safety, loaded ....) no failure drills to practice etc. I would think something with a 4 barrel in 357 (or 38spl+p) would be a great choice.
My wife who has very small hands has no trouble with recoil shooting a 2" 38 special j frame.
I disagree. The .380 now is just as crappy as it was 20+ years ago, "new ammo" doesn't change the game here. The .380 ACP is still marginal there's no getting around it. Changing the bullet will not fix the power limitations inherent to the cartridge. The problem is the bullet cannot be pushed fast enough to really activate the JHP. The best you can hope for really is hot ball ammo, more than anything else. Is it better than nothing? Sure... WAY better... but given a choice (which it sounds like can be made in this case) it's not even on the top 10 unless we're talking about guns you slide into your pocket.
Why advocate for such a crappy cartridge in a home defense role when the alternatives are far better- a medium to full sized 9mm handgun is not going to be any more abusive in terms of recoil (in some cases it will actually be tamer!) it will have way better stopping power, (good JHPs can actually expand fully and penetrate to the depths required to reach vitals) and the ammo will cost half as much, making it more likely the gun owner will practice with that firearm. That's what we call a win-win proposition.
Dead people don't really tell us much about wound ballistics or stopping power (eg, how long it actually took the threat to stop doing whatever it was they were doing, which is all one is really concerned about in a self defense realm). Lots of gangbangers have killed each other with subcaliber garbage, but that doesn't mean that it's the best choice for self defense. If "dead people" were an accurate measure of stopping power, .25 ACP would be probably in the top 10, even though it's basically the most anemic and worthless cartridge money can buy.
-Mike
Disagree away. I am not saying that it's my favorite caliber, but as I said I have several articles that state exactly what I posted about 380's with modern ammo being more effective then in years past. I just think if thats what she likes go with it.
Mass-diver
NES Member
? source. Everything I have read (including all of Evan's Marshall's stuff which actually tends to favor small calibers) indicates that it is a horrible round, sure Hp bullets help a bit, but the only reason to every choose thing is round is for lightweight carry. It has no place as a designated HD weapon.
If you got your heart set on a 380 this seems to be a good price for a sig P238
http://www.nelsontactical.com/products/sig-sauer-p238-two-tone-238380t-p-1159.html
http://www.nelsontactical.com/products/sig-sauer-p238-two-tone-238380t-p-1159.html
Mass-diver
NES Member
For all the .380 bashing I've done in this thread, I have to admit that's a cool little pistol!
I guess the first question is which .380 did she shoot well?MJM;1474072She has shot well a .380 and [B said:
As people have pointed out, some .380's can have a greater "felt" recoil than some 9mm. I found that with the Beretta's. I shot a 84 right after shooting a 92 type M (single stack 9mm). I felt like the 84 had more felt recoil. Personal preference is what it boils down too. I taught my wife to shoot with a Para P13.45, and a Glock 20. She hated the Para, fell in love with the Glock. Then she qualified with the M9 during her service in the Army. Now, she won't shoot anything else! It's all personal preference. She won't shoot the .45ACP anymore (after the Para, a single-stack Springfield, and a SIG P220).
Doug
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