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3d printed firearms!?

mega dupe.

If I had a printer, I would totally print the pistol just because I am an American, and it makes people uneasy.
 
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edmorseiii said:
If I had a printer, I would totally print the pistol just because I am an American, and it makes people uneasy.
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yup, if i could maintain control over one of the printers at work long enough i'd figure this was no different than running off a few copies of targets. [laugh]
 
Kids with extra chromosomes who lust over guns and cant shoot can now make one offed semi-functional models in their moms basements with their dad's computers. Yay!
 
The whole " I can print 3D guns in plastic at home" concept is predicated on theft. Stealing designs, stealing other people's intellectual capital, stealing research. It makes sense for the sub 25 / 25-30 year old entitled age group that has never ponied up on an intellectual / physical level. They see shit, - like they did when they were 6 years old- scream a lot, and someone gives it to them. They sound somewhat smart because they've been exposed to knowledge on the internet. They scan stuff for catch phrases, but they never really read it. And they don't understand it.

3d printing of firearms is idiotic. And anyone who thinks they can fire and maneuver with something that came off a Makerbot using a student version of SW is too stupid to be allowed to drive a car. But YouTube, etc., makes them into heroes.

And all you can say to them is... well... go be a hero. Show us we're wrong.
 
philellison4 said:
This seems so dangerous to me and I don't think this kid understands the full implications of his actions... What do you guys think of him?

3D Printed Guns (Documentary) - YouTube
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Absolutely fine. Besides, Darwin lurks with printed firearms. If you create a design yourself, you've got a good chance of blowing off your hand unless you're smart/an engineer. The guy who created the .380 one created an ABC plastic pistol that trashes the barrel with every shot and sometimes breaks the whole thing (Especially with repeated shots).

Think of it like a modern day Liberator. Do you really think the French, after finding these air dropped everywhere, really stopped and questioned "What if a kid got this?". They didn't, but I'm sure the Nazis would have protested. That's really a good summary of the politics behind it. It isn't by any means a practical firearm.
 
Timber said:
The whole " I can print 3D guns in plastic at home" concept is predicated on theft. Stealing designs, stealing other people's intellectual capital, stealing research. It makes sense for the sub 25 / 25-30 year old entitled age group that has never ponied up on an intellectual / physical level. They see shit, - like they did when they were 6 years old- scream a lot, and someone gives it to them. They sound somewhat smart because they've been exposed to knowledge on the internet. They scan stuff for catch phrases, but they never really read it. And they don't understand it.

3d printing of firearms is idiotic. And anyone who thinks they can fire and maneuver with something that came off a Makerbot using a student version of SW is too stupid to be allowed to drive a car. But YouTube, etc., makes them into heroes.

And all you can say to them is... well... go be a hero. Show us we're wrong.
Click to expand...

Angry much?
How you feel about big boys getting blue prints from ar15's and spend time at a Cnc and busting out a lower? Or people do a fact builds / semi builds of guns not made any more . Or ones that parts kits are too dam pricey.
I got blue prints for a mosin if I had enough time I could make a receiver from scratch .

When ever you invent some thing and put it out into the wild you have to realize after a x amount of time it's fair game for any one to copy . 1911 is a perfect example of this.
The only reason colt still owns rights to the m16/m4/ar15 is cause they where smart enough to make little changes over time to keep it in there control.

That said most of the guns for 3d prints are released with a open source type copy right . Free to use but you can't take credit. You can can make changes and take credit for your changes tho.
Arduino is a perfect example of this . There's a ton of different makers of this micro controller . They sell and profit from it and all they have to do is give credit to the original makers etc.


Most of these guns are much safer then you think and "the student sw" is the same thing as the full program btw .
These guns aren't made on DIY 3d printers there made on much higher end . Granted some dumbass will try and die or get messed up.

The people designing these are not some snot nose kid in moms basement . And I take offensive to that I live in my moms basement lol granted I chose to move back to help the family with bills but I digress.
The people coming up with plans for these are engineers for the most part.
 
Blue prints, huh? And you're right. I have no idea about that "x" amount of time in either copyright or patent law that applies to inventing or writing something. You're also right about SW student version being the same as SW standard, professional, etc. While you're at it tell me more about busting out stuff on CNC machines.

Or maybe you should stay in your lane. I.e posting about how your cat is your best friend and stacking LEOs like cordwood because you skipped a few dime bags and bought a Mosin.
 
Timber said:
Blue prints, huh? And you're right. I have no idea about that "x" amount of time in either copyright or patent law that applies to inventing or writing something. You're also right about SW student version being the same as SW standard, professional, etc. While you're at it tell me more about busting out stuff on CNC machines.

Or maybe you should stay in your lane. I.e posting about how your cat is your best friend and stacking LEOs like cordwood because you skipped a few dime bags and bought a Mosin.
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I can program Cnc machines in g code at the machine . I don't use auto cad or master cam software or any of that crap to do it. Give me a print, a simple basic calculator and a pad of paper I can figure out how to program the part. Only time I need to look at the book is for codes I don't use all the times . Ie stuf like a taper pocket etc . Working in a prototype shop running manual machines for a few years you learn how to take a part you never built before and figure out where/how to start and what fixtures you'll need.

............................

With Sw depending on what student codes your able to apply for you can use any version of sw. depends on what program your school etc has set up with them.
Vets can get a code to use professional for a year for free...

..........................

Patents and copyrights are not for life . They have time limits depending on what there for and how there setup. That's why I said X amount of time . You know in algebra you use X etc as a variable .....


...............,.............

I love my cat , but I generally post a photo of my Pittbull with my 1911 lol .
Only a dumbass buys a dime bag. You save buying more .
Also I have a crap load of family that are cops you'll all most never see me post about stacking them or any one like cordwood. I mite say a cop that broke the law or is a ass should go to jail or get beat up but that's cause i see them no different .


Who doesn't love a good mosin ?
 
I think I followed some posts about Cody on ARF. If not him, then it was someone else, but the common theme with AR-15 plastic lowers is they break relatively early. The video shows this as his latest version lasted what? Under 100 rounds? So if these things are to be somewhat usable some major redesign needs to be done to parts originally designed to be machined from metal.

If any sort of rapid prototype firearm is to be made, Selective Laser Sintering is probably a more realistic approach to do so. These machines lay down a layer of metal power, and then use a laser to sinter the powder and fuse it and then proceed to the next level. However, these machines are quite expensive. $200-400k in capital and thousands in yearly maintainence. The average kid in mom's basement won't have one of these.

I have no opinion on 3D printing. It's merely a novelty to me and I don't think the designs are strong enough to pursue as a truly dependable firearm. Taking a few shots while cringing at the expectation of the gun to fail at any moment is not my idea of a good time.

The idea of a 100% transparent plastic AR-15 hanging on my wall as a display piece does sound pretty cool though
 
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The 3D stuff could look very promising in some applications, but I don't think I would trust it for a firearm. Funny how this technology has been around for a while, was watching old episodes of mythbusters and they had one in M5 and used it for a surfboard. I think if someone would use one to crank out some dummy rounds would be really damn nice!

Charles.
 
philellison4 said:
This seems so dangerous to me and I don't think this kid understands the full implications of his actions... What do you guys think of him?

3D Printed Guns (Documentary) - YouTube
Click to expand...

How is this more dangerous from a "normal" firearm? Criminals already have access to firearms. Why should I be limited in how I choose to create my firearm, be it from aluminum, plastic, or a ****ing shovel?
 
This guy is passionate and crazy. He is a gun activist on steroids. Putting a blueprint online hurts the cause more than helps it. If everyone could print one then there would be no way to trace the gun because there is no serial number thus making it possible to do harm to others with out possibly getting caught. It's like having the black market with a click of a mouse.


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Before this thread gets locked, what is the update with Defense Distributed? Did the ATF shut them down? I don't see anything about AR-15's on it anymore, just the pistol. I've been away to long......
 
I'll pass on a 3D printed gun unless all guns have been banned and confiscated and I need a modern Liberator.
 
jjames783 said:
This guy is passionate and crazy. He is a gun activist on steroids. Putting a blueprint online hurts the cause more than helps it. If everyone could print one then there would be no way to trace the gun because there is no serial number thus making it possible to do harm to others with out possibly getting caught. It's like having the black market with a click of a mouse.


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This is no different then when someone invented the drill press. Everyone could make a pistol or a cannon in a few hours. The only difference between this thing and a CNC machine is the price and that's what scares people. Imagine if there was a pistol that the Receiver was a piece of angle iron with 4 holes drilled in it. Anyone could go to home depot and build it and order the rest of the parts online.
 
jjames783 said:
This guy is passionate and crazy. He is a gun activist on steroids. Putting a blueprint online hurts the cause more than helps it. If everyone could print one then there would be no way to trace the gun because there is no serial number thus making it possible to do harm to others with out possibly getting caught. It's like having the black market with a click of a mouse.


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you do know that per federal law, if you manufacture your own firearm for personal use and it is legal to possess in your state and not an NFA item that you do not have to serialize it, right? this goes for 3D printing, %80 lowers, AK flats, etc.

and for the record i do agree with timber on the IP rights issue. we utilize rapid prototyping here at work, and i personally know the folks who design the products and see them through to the final manufacturing stage. if we got ripped off left and right, those folks would be out of work--as would i. no users left in the building means no reason for me to be there to provide assistance to 'em. IP is relevant and important.
 
jjames783 said:
This guy is passionate and crazy. He is a gun activist on steroids. Putting a blueprint online hurts the cause more than helps it. If everyone could print one then there would be no way to trace the gun because there is no serial number thus making it possible to do harm to others with out possibly getting caught. It's like having the black market with a click of a mouse.
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So how is John Rosenthal doing? You obviously play golf with him or something.

-Mike
 
philellison4 said:
This seems so dangerous to me and I don't think this kid understands the full implications of his actions... What do you guys think of him?

3D Printed Guns (Documentary) - YouTube
Click to expand...

I think he understands exactly what he is doing.

noxin said:
How is this more dangerous from a "normal" firearm? Criminals already have access to firearms. Why should I be limited in how I choose to create my firearm, be it from aluminum, plastic, or a ****ing shovel?
Click to expand...

This.

Come and take said:
Plus 1. It's not illegal so why not.
Click to expand...

This, again.

jjames783 said:
This guy is passionate and crazy. He is a gun activist on steroids. Putting a blueprint online hurts the cause more than helps it. If everyone could print one then there would be no way to trace the gun because there is no serial number thus making it possible to do harm to others with out possibly getting caught. It's like having the black market with a click of a mouse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
Click to expand...

I wonder how many crimes have actually been solved by having the serial number from the gun used in the crime. All it really does is let the authorities identify the owner of the gun, and even that's not a certainty.

At this point in time, I wouldn't use a 'printed' gun because I have better options available to me. Some day, though, folks might need access to tools that their government doesn't want them to have.

That's when those tools will be most needed.
 
I don't see this as a one dimensional issue, but I will say that 3D printing itself is a bit of a red herring in the whole debate.

Timber is right that the "anarcho-blah-blah" stuff is BS and reflects the entitlement mindset of the napster (and everything that followed) crowd. I have some caveats there, because the music industry was not blameless there as that movement represented a consumer revolt against their monopoly practices. Both sides were wrong. The right answer to "I don't like your price" is to not buy it, not to steal it.

Information cannot be "free" in any blanket sense, it must price in the cost of production and it's own risk. Not all information is created equal. Some information can harm it's discoverer or help his enemy. The best price may be zero for some information and even negative where it is in the information owner's interest to pay to get it of there.

Now on to the guns... The point here is to side-step the debate of gun regulation based on controlling the manufacturers. It is important to note that a great many of our prohibitions in this society are accomplished via tight control of "commercial" activity. This is based on the idea that jurisdiction over commercial activity gives government infinite leeway to write any law they see fit.

Clearly this is false, but for 230 years that has been their story and they are sticking to it. So, this debate, in theory, moots that aspect of it and get the debate on guns back to, "should the government be allowed to stop me from drilling holes in metal in my garage"?

3D printing will remain something of a novelty for guns for a while maybe even a long while as production of prcision parts that can take 50,000 PSI is going to remain quite expensive. Magazines are a different issue as they can be made effectively now.

Also note that the magazine design in a printed polymers is not the same as magpuls or colts, it requires new engineering. If they want to make that effort and release the info, that is their choice.
 

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