A Leo might. I suppose if you are in your car and someone tries to carjack you, though I would first try to drive over them if they are in front of me.
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45ACP obsolete?
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Quite_Exasperated
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You’ve obviously never tried to cross Chelmsford Street in Lowell at lunchtime..
M60
NES Member
Do you mean like my glock 21. Its capacity is 13 + 1 in .45acp. My 1911's hold 10 + 1 using Chip McCormick magazines. Not much difference in round count really. Accuracy advantage goes to the 1911 however. I'll stack up my Colt, Springfield Armory and Kimber1911's against the Glock 21 any day. More modern designs are not always better. Only a fool thinks that way.
Glock 21 and 5” 1911s are nowhere near as concealable as a Glock 43x and P365xl.
I’ve still got several full sized 1911s. I never carried more than 8+1 in my 1911s. 10 round mags are a pain in the neck in 1911s. I do have a P14-45 and have flush fit 14 round mags for that gun, but carrying 14+1 45 in a 5” 1911/2011 is one heck of a lot of weight and size to carry. A Glock 21 is lighter but still a huge gun compared to a 43x.
I’ve still got several full sized 1911s. I never carried more than 8+1 in my 1911s. 10 round mags are a pain in the neck in 1911s. I do have a P14-45 and have flush fit 14 round mags for that gun, but carrying 14+1 45 in a 5” 1911/2011 is one heck of a lot of weight and size to carry. A Glock 21 is lighter but still a huge gun compared to a 43x.
M60
NES Member
I have a p365 with a wilson xl frame for summer carry with shorts, but again, it doesn't have the accuracy of the 1911. Sorry to hear that 10 round magazines are a pain for you.. Again modern design isn't always better.
Of course it is harder to shoot than a full-size 1911. It’s a smaller gun with a shorter sight radius and a worse trigger. But it is much easier to carry. A 4” gun with 6+1 on your belt beats a 44 oz 5” 1911 sitting in your safe because it was too much gun to be bothered with that day.
Soundwave
NES Member
You're making me want to break out my RO Elite Compact 4" 1911 this weekend!
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Won’t matter to me. I’m inpatient at MGH ICU. I’ve made a 50-yard hit on a bowling pin with my 4” Kimber Compact back when I could see iron sites (Jon Green at Goal can attest — we were seated in the back of a moving Goal minivan at the time, I was the shooter and he was my safety officer).
But the reality is that right now, at age 62, I can’t control the recoil of 45 ACP as well as I could at age 32, and I can no longer see iron sights. My 10+1 43x is easier to carry than my 6+1 Kimber Compact, not as easy to shoot but good enough for me within 25 yards.
I’ve had 7 1911s over the years, from my POS ParaOrdnance P-14 to several Kimber Series I to a Colt Delta Elite to a Springfield Armory to a Wilson Combat 5” that I shot in IDPA and USPSA for years. I’m quite familiar with the advantages (and disadvantages) of the 1911 platform.
M60
NES Member
Well sure if you leave your 1911 at home. In that situation I carry my Sig 938. It accommodates all of those situations.
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Agnotology
NES Member
If it's lethal, and you can shoot it well, it isn't obsolete. Talk ballistics all day if you want, permanent wound channel vs temporary, hydrodynamic shock from high velocity low grain rounds, energy transfer via ballistic mediums, Paul Harrel's meat target results, how explodey a particular cartridge makes a ripe watermelon when shot, pig cadeavers, etc etc.
Four things matter. Powder load, projectile shape, bullet weight, bullet material. The overall size of the starting caliber means nothing compared to those four attributes.
Regardless of what round you start with, whether 9mm or a 12 gauge, you can get to your desired result by tailoring your projectile and load with the above characteristics. And desired results vary, from target shooting, competition, home defense, CC, LEO, security, hunting, etc.
Everyone has their own use case.
Four things matter. Powder load, projectile shape, bullet weight, bullet material. The overall size of the starting caliber means nothing compared to those four attributes.
Regardless of what round you start with, whether 9mm or a 12 gauge, you can get to your desired result by tailoring your projectile and load with the above characteristics. And desired results vary, from target shooting, competition, home defense, CC, LEO, security, hunting, etc.
Everyone has their own use case.
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Like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Are they not all 100 year old cartridges in the end.
I was shooting my swede Mauser from 1913 and guy asks me what I was shooting. I said 6.5
He gets all “bro” with me and says “ no way thats to old to shoot creed.” I laughed and said “No, Swede , 6.5 Swede and its better than creed” he was not having it.
Lol, that was a good conversation. The cast loads through the 308 K98 really sent him for a loop,
The shift to 9mm is market based: more people use it, more manufacturers produce it, economies of scale increase for the round, prices go down, and technology swoops in to make engineering and ballistics improvements. Beyond that, physics takes over in that the muzzle energy of .45 ACP is, on average (but not always), greater than 9mm. Your body has to absorb significantly more energy which makes it inherently more difficult to be accurate and consistent in times of high stress. For other forms of shooting (i.e. non self-defense purposes) this is all a moot point. Of course, if the .45 ACP market presented the same economics to producers as 9mm, you'd see "improvements" being made, too.
None of this means .45 is obsolete. But it has largely become isolated to a more narrow band of use cases. Still a fun round to shoot, and even more fun with PCCs.
None of this means .45 is obsolete. But it has largely become isolated to a more narrow band of use cases. Still a fun round to shoot, and even more fun with PCCs.
gerrycaruso
NES Member
I like 45acp. I own more guns in that caliber than any other. I also shoot more 45acp than all other calibers combined. I hope it is obsolete because then it will be cheap and I can buy more.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
Traditional archery tackle can take anything in North America.
Sure is hard though.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
Today people think .32-20 is obsolete, yet it was extremly popular for decades and was used as a deer rifle often, not with smokeless, but black powder.
Yet some still think .308 is a minimum for deer. Maybe it is, if you're shooting them at over 300 yards.
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Finally! Correct caliber identification! Love it!
