7.62x51 / 308 Semi-auto options

Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
7,117
Likes
13,128
Location
NH
Feedback: 9 / 0 / 0
I've been thinking it might be wise to pickup a 7.62x51 / 308 semi-auto rifle, especially with the possibility of a new AWB in the next 1-4 years. However, I am not particularly enamored with any of the options except perhaps the FAL (presumably DSA).

What options might I be missing?

Criteria:
- No AR-10 platform (would like something different)
- No M1A/308 M1 (have two '06 M1s and would like something different)

Hard mode: $1200ish, under $1600 at max.

Ones I am aware of:
- FAL (DSA, most likely)
- G3/PTR91/C308 (heard it destroys brass which stinks as a reloader)
- SCAR (out of price range)
- Galil ACE
- Tavor 7
- Bren 2?
 
The Tavor and X95 in 5.56 have been in military service since 1995. The Tavor 7 in 7.62 is unreleased and unproven. I want one but will wait until it sees service.

The SCAR is military-proven and would be my choice if I didn't have a thousand other things to spend that much money on first.

Honorable mention is the Desert Tech MDR. Looks tempting but they're a tiny company, no military service, and it was rushed to market. More recent reviews with the improved gas system have been positive but I would never get one.

Under the criteria you mention, I agree with Grendizer.
 
Thanks for the responses so far. Still leaning FAL; $5 G3 mags is kind of enticing though. I had forgotten about the RFB.
Bren 2 gets my vote
Are they even for sale yet?
The Tavor and X95 in 5.56 have been in military service since 1995. The Tavor 7 in 7.62 is unreleased and unproven. I want one but will wait until it sees service.

The SCAR is military-proven and would be my choice if I didn't have a thousand other things to spend that much money on first.

Honorable mention is the Desert Tech MDR. Looks tempting but they're a tiny company, no military service, and it was rushed to market. More recent reviews with the improved gas system have been positive but I would never get one.

Under the criteria you mention, I agree with Grendizer.
I've seen videos on the MDR and have some concerns also. Plus I think it's like $2500.
I've held, but not fired a Tavor X95. It seemed pretty nice but with a few ARs already in my possession, it didn't seem to make much sense for me.
I would go PTR K3P and SBR it

K3P PDWR PTR 111 – PTR
Wasn't aware they made a pistol version. I would think 308 with 12.5'' barrel might be unpleasant though, maybe not.
3 years ago i would have said a saiga or vepr :(. Still looking for a 16" of either to this day.
Yeah I tried to convince a friend who only shoots 308 to get a 308 Vepr before they were banned, but it didn't happen.
 
I would go with the PTR91 but for a little more money if I wanted a preban I would have gone for a Springfield Armory SAR3 or SAR8 overstrike made in Greece by EBO. There was one posted here for $1,500. Max I have seen them they are $2K
 
why have you ruled out the LR-308 / AR-10? If accuracy is of concern this platform will (for the most part) school all the piston drive options.

--
Those of you who love the RFB have likely never owned one. It is typical Keltec POS that I wish I hadn't purchased. Further, Keltec only warranties original purchaser of their products. forward ejection is a complex design that manufacturers like FN may successfully execute. Keltec not so much. Why do you think the newer RDB design abandoned forward ejection? Keltec is the worst. avoid and you're welcome.

--
SCAR 17 is a nice rifle, nicely overpriced too. the lightweight profile barrel helps with weight but does no favors in terms of accuracy. for half the price one could build an LR-308 that outshoots a SCAR-17.

--
the DSA FALs are nice although given it's an FAL the thing is still "old-school". I have no experience with CETME pattern rifles like the PTR although people who own PTR rifles seem pleased with them. again an LR-308 can be built lighter and more accurate.
 
Last edited:
why have you ruled out the LR-308 / AR-10? If accuracy is of concern this platform will (for the most part) school all the piston drive options.

--
Those of you who love the RFB have likely never owned one. It is typical Keltec POS that I wish I hadn't purchased. Further, Keltec only warranties original purchaser of their products. forward ejection is a complex design that manufacturers like FN may successfully execute. Keltec not so much. Why do you think the newer RDB design abandoned forward ejection? Keltec is the worst. avoid and you're welcome.

--
SCAR 17 is a nice rifle, nicely overpriced too. the lightweight profile barrel helps with weight but does no favors in terms of accuracy. for half the price one could build an LR-308 that outshoots a SCAR-17.

--
the DSA FALs are nice although given it's an FAL the thing is still "old-school". I have no experience with CETME pattern rifles like the PTR although people who own PTR rifles seem pleased with them. again an LR-308 can be built lighter and more accurate.
The reason for no AR-10 is that I already have three AR-15s of various style and just wanted something different. It's the same with M1A/M14. I have fired one of my friend's many, many times and it's a fun rifle and would continue to round out the US infantry rifle collection, but it's similar enough to my M1s that it seems sort of like overlap; plus I already have access to one often enough to shoot it when I really want to.

I don't think I'd go for the RFB, I just forgot it existed. I saw a video where the guy said "it's Keltec, so you know it's just going to work" and the comments section absolutely slammed guy, calling him a shill, etc.

People seem to like PTRs, although I heard they render brass unusable and I have heard the ergos are not on par with the FAL. For the specs of this purchase I'd put it maybe #2 behind the FAL in my list; they're fairly obtainable and magazines are plentiful and cheap.

SCARs are cool but I don't envision this rifle to be much more than for fun and to have something in a common caliber I already reload (for a friend). It's just too dang expensive for what this purchase is intended to be.
FAL is definitely old school. I tend to lean towards old school!
My home built FAL destroying pumpkins at Monadnock. Those were the days.

View attachment 279255

It’s the only gun I ever built myself and the thing is butter smooth and accurate.
So yeah I vote Right Arm of the Free World!
That's awesome.
One of the main things I miss about the NES shoots was getting to do "recon."
Everyone was always willing to let others try their stuff and vice versa. Would have been a good opportunity to try a FAL and/or other options.

"Old school' is definitely fine for me, the majority of firearms I own are milsurps (and if you add military-related designs like ARs and AKs, almost exclusively of military-inspired variety).
 
Yes, like mac1911, I was thinking along the lines of the 742 or 7400. It avoids much of the assault weapon mystique, but still gets you a reliable auto-loader in .308 (243 Win. .30-06, etc.) for closer to $500 (my guess).
As a matter of fact, I was just shooting my neighbor's 7400 in .30-06 yesterday with some 110g frangibles. Sweet! Now, granted, the magazine capacity is reduced and the mags are slightly awkward, but they do work and are available for $20 at a lgs.

I know there are aftermarket 10-rounders for the .270,.280 and .30-06 (Model 740/742), but I've seen a .308 version with aftermarket stock and magazines, too (now to find it).
 
Last edited:
FAL is definitely old school. I tend to lean towards old school!
My home built FAL destroying pumpkins at Monadnock. Those were the days.

View attachment 279255

It’s the only gun I ever built myself and the thing is butter smooth and accurate.
So yeah I vote Right Arm of the Free World!
May I ask how hard and how much tooling it required? I think I recall reading that for the barrel it's best to have a smith do it. Haven't looked into parts kits or anything, just wondering if it's an avenue that's at all viable in the current year.
 
DSA does such nice work if I were in the market for FAL I would definitely go that route. they're also an Illinois based business and one of the few remaining FAL sources so I would want to support them. their staff and owner seem like cool people.

getting back to post # 24 by OP

i also thought an LR-308 would be just a big AR-15 and while in some way this is true, the LR-308 handles differnetly and doesn't feel at all like a typical .223 AR. the handiness and quick feeling is gone. it's much more substantial. my point is if you went with an LR-308 i don't think you'd end up looking at it as a big AR-15.

in terms of reloading, an LR-308 will definitely be the friendliest auto-loader 308 option. with an adjustable gas block (I favor the SLR sentry series) one can dial down the gas and keep the brass in good shape. any of the piston driven guns like an FAL will absolutely rape the brass. they'are also much harder on any optics due to the heavy forward recoil impulse, whereas an LR-308 has somewhat less reciprocating mass. the black rifles mfr's are obviously hurting for sales, so it goes in our favor. the CMMG or LMT 308 rifles are impressive but there are like ton of other good ones too.

that being said I know that feeling of being bored with a rifle platform. the upside to the DSA FALs is they are definitely reliable and hold their value pretty well so if you decide to ditch it least no major loss. also parts availability is a non issue. i refuse to get into a rifle platform if i can't easily get parts. I get the sense that LR-308 rifles tend to lose value a little quicker, probably due to more availability. a side note is DSA warns against using any steel cased 308 ammo which for me is annoying. i tend to find whatever conditions are needed to run wolf 308 since it's so cheap.

Chris Bartocci (Small Arms Solutions) has some nice videos posted on all of these rifle platforms. may be of relevance to you.

DSArms SA58 FNFAL (Metric) Review.mp4
 
May I ask how hard and how much tooling it required? I think I recall reading that for the barrel it's best to have a smith do it. Haven't looked into parts kits or anything, just wondering if it's an avenue that's at all viable in the current year.

Back story: Before my father passed away he gave me a SHITLOAD of parts kits. AK/ Krinkovs, MP34, Sten, Beretta (models 38/42 and the AR70!), Suomi, FAL, PM63, you get the idea. Lots more I can't even remember right now. So I wanted to build one of them into an operable gun and did a lot of research to see which one would be the easiest for someone who'd never "built" a gun. Research told me FAL is a fairly straightforward home build.
I sold every last one of those kits besides one of the FAL's. The upper was STG-58 (with a mint barrel) and the lower was Imbel. I bought a barrel vise and receiver wrench, pin gauges, Go/No Go gauges, and had to find the correct locking shoulder, for proper headspace. I got a complete kit of new springs from Falcon Arms. The receiver (on the FAL, the upper is the "gun") came from DSA, transferred to me through FFL, and yes I FA10'd it once I was done building. On the barrel, it had to be removed from the old torch-cut upper. That meant using a cut-off wheel VERY CAREFULLY and split the forward section of the receiver so it can be removed from the barrel threads without doing any damage. Then to time the barrel to the new receiver required repeatedly sanding down the face of the receiver, and mock-fitting the barrel until the barrel would tighten to the proper torque and be perfectly timed so the sights will line up top-dead-center.
So as far as difficulty goes, that part was the toughest and most time-consuming. When I was done and had a few months to shoot the rifle and make sure everything was good, I sold the barrel vise, receiver wrench, pin gauge set, and Go/No Go gauges and got a little less back than what I had spent on all that stuff.
Everything I learned while building that rifle I found on FALfiles.com, and this link: Building the FAL at Home, Assembly
I don't remember exactly how much the whole project cost me in the end, but I want to say it was around $700. I have a folder somewhere with all the invoices for the receiver, parts and materials. Of course the parts kit being free was a big help. ;)

in terms of reloading, an LR-308 will definitely be the friendliest auto-loader 308 option. with an adjustable gas block (I favor the SLR sentry series) one can dial down the gas and keep the brass in good shape. any of the piston driven guns like an FAL will absolutely rape the brass.

The FAL has an adjustable gas system. On mine I had adjusted it so the brass lazily trickles out of the action and plops right down next to the rifle, with average 7.62 NATO at least. With hotter .308, brass would kick out with slightly more force but barely noticeable. None of the brass that I shot through my FAL was every overly beat-up. I ran out of factory .308/7.62 after I got my .308 Garand in a trade last year. I think I had around 300 rounds left of mixed Santa Barbara 7.62 and Federal .308, and I shot the hell out of the Garand when I first got it, giggling like a little girl and immediately in love with that rifle. LOL. So I have neglected my FAL since the Garand came along. But I just recently started reloading .308 and I worked up to a nice mild load that has so far run beautifully in my Garand, with decent accuracy. In fact on my lunch break today I'm gonna hit the range and run my reloads through the FAL for the first time. Since I can't afford to buy factory .308/7.62 for the foreseeable future anyhow, I'll be shooting nothing but reloads through both my FAL and Garand and want to have one load that will work nicely with both. When I get to the range today I'll first open up the gas adjustment 3 or 4 positions and start firing one round at a time from a magazine, and dialing the gas adjustment back up incrementally until the gun consistently locks open the bolt on the empty mag. My reloads are 43.0gr of H4895 under 150gr boat-tail bullets with mixed .308 and 7.62 brass, trim length 2.08 to 2.14.

TLDR: The FAL is a fun rifle.
 
Back story: Before my father passed away he gave me a SHITLOAD of parts kits. AK/ Krinkovs, MP34, Sten, Beretta (models 38/42 and the AR70!), Suomi, FAL, PM63, you get the idea. Lots more I can't even remember right now. So I wanted to build one of them into an operable gun and did a lot of research to see which one would be the easiest for someone who'd never "built" a gun. Research told me FAL is a fairly straightforward home build.
I sold every last one of those kits besides one of the FAL's. The upper was STG-58 (with a mint barrel) and the lower was Imbel. I bought a barrel vise and receiver wrench, pin gauges, Go/No Go gauges, and had to find the correct locking shoulder, for proper headspace. I got a complete kit of new springs from Falcon Arms. The receiver (on the FAL, the upper is the "gun") came from DSA, transferred to me through FFL, and yes I FA10'd it once I was done building. On the barrel, it had to be removed from the old torch-cut upper. That meant using a cut-off wheel VERY CAREFULLY and split the forward section of the receiver so it can be removed from the barrel threads without doing any damage. Then to time the barrel to the new receiver required repeatedly sanding down the face of the receiver, and mock-fitting the barrel until the barrel would tighten to the proper torque and be perfectly timed so the sights will line up top-dead-center.
So as far as difficulty goes, that part was the toughest and most time-consuming. When I was done and had a few months to shoot the rifle and make sure everything was good, I sold the barrel vise, receiver wrench, pin gauge set, and Go/No Go gauges and got a little less back than what I had spent on all that stuff.
Everything I learned while building that rifle I found on FALfiles.com, and this link: Building the FAL at Home, Assembly
I don't remember exactly how much the whole project cost me in the end, but I want to say it was around $700. I have a folder somewhere with all the invoices for the receiver, parts and materials. Of course the parts kit being free was a big help. ;)



The FAL has an adjustable gas system. On mine I had adjusted it so the brass lazily trickles out of the action and plops right down next to the rifle, with average 7.62 NATO at least. With hotter .308, brass would kick out with slightly more force but barely noticeable. None of the brass that I shot through my FAL was every overly beat-up. I ran out of factory .308/7.62 after I got my .308 Garand in a trade last year. I think I had around 300 rounds left of mixed Santa Barbara 7.62 and Federal .308, and I shot the hell out of the Garand when I first got it, giggling like a little girl and immediately in love with that rifle. LOL. So I have neglected my FAL since the Garand came along. But I just recently started reloading .308 and I worked up to a nice mild load that has so far run beautifully in my Garand, with decent accuracy. In fact on my lunch break today I'm gonna hit the range and run my reloads through the FAL for the first time. Since I can't afford to buy factory .308/7.62 for the foreseeable future anyhow, I'll be shooting nothing but reloads through both my FAL and Garand and want to have one load that will work nicely with both. When I get to the range today I'll first open up the gas adjustment 3 or 4 positions and start firing one round at a time from a magazine, and dialing the gas adjustment back up incrementally until the gun consistently locks open the bolt on the empty mag. My reloads are 43.0gr of H4895 under 150gr boat-tail bullets with mixed .308 and 7.62 brass, trim length 2.08 to 2.14.

TLDR: The FAL is a fun rifle.
Yeah, I most likely won't go the build route as cool as that might be. I've thought about trying to build AKs but since parts kits aren't nearly as prevalent or inexpensive as in the past, I figured it was unlikely I'd make my costs back and as much as I like AKs I don't think I'd build enough of them to justify it.

I nearly pulled the trigger on a Galil parts kit before deciding I just didn't want to deal with the potential for wasting nearly $1000 in parts without even factoring in the cost of tools.

My only other thought would be to see if my local smith could do the barrel related stuff for me and I'd try to tackle the rest. I think it only logically makes sense if I'd come out ahead in cost though, otherwise a factory built rifle with a warranty makes more sense.

I guess it's time to do a little more research.
While I don't own a 308, I have loaded for my friend's M1A so I have dies and mountains of brass. I load 30-06 more than anything for my M1s, so I have plenty of projectiles on hand as well.

Only other nuisance I am seeing is DSA sells an ambi safety selector (I'm left-handed) but it's $70 and out of stock [thinking]...not like I'm unused to rifles not accomodating me, I guess.
 
Yeah, I most likely won't go the build route as cool as that might be. I've thought about trying to build AKs but since parts kits aren't nearly as prevalent or inexpensive as in the past, I figured it was unlikely I'd make my costs back and as much as I like AKs I don't think I'd build enough of them to justify it.

I nearly pulled the trigger on a Galil parts kit before deciding I just didn't want to deal with the potential for wasting nearly $1000 in parts without even factoring in the cost of tools.

My only other thought would be to see if my local smith could do the barrel related stuff for me and I'd try to tackle the rest. I think it only logically makes sense if I'd come out ahead in cost though, otherwise a factory built rifle with a warranty makes more sense.

I guess it's time to do a little more research.
While I don't own a 308, I have loaded for my friend's M1A so I have dies and mountains of brass. I load 30-06 more than anything for my M1s, so I have plenty of projectiles on hand as well.

Only other nuisance I am seeing is DSA sells an ambi safety selector (I'm left-handed) but it's $70 and out of stock [thinking]...not like I'm unused to rifles not accomodating me, I guess.

I think all build these days are pretty much because they can be fun to do. The idea you could build a quality rifle, even an AR15 for less money than buying a production model went away some time ago. 15 years ago when there were maybe 15 companies doing ARs, builds made a lot of sense, with the proliferation of ARs in the market builds are pretty much done for fun.
 
Back
Top Bottom