78g .45ACP?

[KilgoreTrout]

Apologies if this is a dupe. I searched.

While buying some 230g range ammo today, a salesman said, "check out this round... so much lighter." It was a 78g .45 that appeared to have been made of a beer can. Aluminum.




It was amazingly light feeling.

I told the chap I wouldn't bet my skin on this stuff until I had loads of real data.

200 rounds went fast at the range this morning. Great start to my vacation.

 

[saltydude]

Wow. The more I think about it, the more useless it seems.

 

[CobaltBlueSteel]

Not sure I want to tickle an attacker.

 

[bill o]

Frangible bullets will get you killed on the streets.

 

[duarteus]

Is that still better then a 9mm lol
Burn baby burn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mac1911]

So basically they jack up the velocity with a lighter bullet.....
Like a 22-250
These are most likely copper bullets I would think.... so hmm I would say to at least come close to the 230gn in actual stopping powder these suckers must be running 1700fps or better.... heck if I want a fast as hell pistol round I will take the 762x25?

 

[JCV]

Same company also makes 9mm and .380. Same concept, light as hell. I think they make a 9mm that is like 55gr. Not 100% sure though.

 

[peterthefish]

Copper bullets and for .45 they give a velocity of 1900+ FPS. That's 5.7 speed with a projectile twice as heavy. I wouldn't want to get hit with one

 

[drgrant]

More gimmick ammo. Good for marauding water jugs, not much else. It's the Magsafe of 2013+....

 

[pupchow]

There's a YT video that does a pretty good job comparing the performance of two calibers in gel. The performance varied greatly.

I believe this is the vid (can't see it where I'm at)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx7rWloog-Q

 

[Dradian]

More gimmick ammo. Good for marauding water jugs, not much else. It's the Magsafe of 2013+....

This^

 

[Bt74]

"Police said the bullets that struck Willows in the right chest and left hip area early Monday morning left marks, but did not penetrate the skin. Police recovered five shell casings outside Willows' apartment and recovered three rounds inside the apartment." http://localnews.rr.com/article/c0999693832a49e0d2993b22710f52d2#.U8p0An7D85s

 

[Nick Fury]

The best penetration comes from the heaviest projectile in a given caliber. At least that is what personal research has shown me. And I like gimmicks...

 

[pupchow]

"Police said the bullets that struck Willows in the right chest and left hip area early Monday morning left marks, but did not penetrate the skin. Police recovered five shell casings outside Willows' apartment and recovered three rounds inside the apartment." http://localnews.rr.com/article/c0999693832a49e0d2993b22710f52d2#.U8p0An7D85s

http://manchesterinklink.com/victim-says-man-shot-tattoo/

Willows told police that she was inside her apartment when she was drawn to the window and then heard multiple gunshots. She was struck by two bullets that landed with enough force to knock her to the ground, but did not penetrate her skin.

 

[Bt74]

http://manchesterinklink.com/victim-says-man-shot-tattoo/

Willows told police that she was inside her apartment when she was drawn to the window and then heard multiple gunshots. She was struck by two bullets that landed with enough force to knock her to the ground, but did not penetrate her skin.

I hate it when bullets "land".

 

[92G]

with regards to the OP, I understand many people want to poo-poo the liberty civil defense ammo because it seems so unusual. however, after watching some actual ballistics testing I would not want to have one of their rounds fired at me, especially the 78g .45acp.

i would be very interested to see how their 9mm stacks up to the conventional 9mm JHPs.

at least the liberty civil gets good velocity from a short barrel....can't say that for some of the 95 or higher gr .380 loads.

 

[drgrant]

with regards to the OP, I understand many people want to poo-poo the liberty civil defense ammo because it seems so unusual. however, after watching some actual ballistics testing I would not want to have one of their rounds fired at me, especially the 78g .45acp.

i would be very interested to see how their 9mm stacks up to the conventional 9mm JHPs.

at least the liberty civil gets good velocity from a short barrel....can't say that for some of the 95 or higher gr .380 loads.

I wouldn't want to have any of them fired at me. Or for that matter, an anemic .25 ACP round. That doesn't mean that it should be considered suitable for self defense.

I would carry ball ammo in any caliber before I carried that shit. At least in .380 on up it will penetrate far enough to reach vitals in different circumstances.

-Mike

 

[fencer]

If you are just punching holes in paper, who cares what you are shooting. But I want my carry ammo big, heavy and slow... just like me.

But I have to imagine that stuff is not cheap.

 

[92G]

I wouldn't want to have any of them fired at me. Or for that matter, an anemic .25 ACP round. That doesn't mean that it should be considered suitable for self defense.

I would carry ball ammo in any caliber before I carried that shit. At least in .380 on up it will penetrate far enough to reach vitals in different circumstances.

-Mike

Have you seen the ballistics gel results w the 78g .45acp load?
why do you say its not good for self defense?

it achieves good penetration, excellent expansion and primary wound cavity and fragments into 5 pieaces each of which establish good sized wound tracks.

i have no particular interest in this ammo but I am interested in understanding why someone would want to discount such findings....it seems pretty solid. I agree it doesnt have an established reputation but neither do many excellent products.

 

[Nick Fury]

I have a suggestion. It will most certainly be informative. Go watch as many BrassFetcher YouTube ballistic gel videos as you can. Pay close attention to how the high velocity stuff just explodes with mere inches of penetration. Watch how a faster, lighter bullet over expands and therefore penetrates less.

The gel test video comparison that did it for me was the .45 Gold Dot 185 grain vs. the 230 grain. I think that says it all.

And remember these are optimum conditions. Put a board or some leather in the way and everything changes...

 

[whacko]

I have a suggestion. It will most certainly be informative. Go watch as many BrassFetcher YouTube ballistic gel videos as you can. Pay close attention to how the high velocity stuff just explodes with mere inches of penetration. Watch how a faster, lighter bullet over expands and therefore penetrates less.

The gel test video comparison that did it for me was the .45 Gold Dot 185 grain vs. the 230 grain. I think that says it all.

And remember these are optimum conditions. Put a board or some leather in the way and everything changes...

I agree. I have watched many of those videos and have the same conclusion. My decision is based on my carrying a revolver but you'll get the point. The 357 magnum was designed to take a 158 grain projectile......and I can handle the recoil of a 158 grain projectile......so I practice and carry a 158 grain projectile. The only sensible reason I can see in going to a lighter projectile is someone can't manage the recoil of a heavier projectile.

 

[whacko]

Have you seen the ballistics gel results w the 78g .45acp load?
why do you say its not good for self defense?

it achieves good penetration, excellent expansion and primary wound cavity and fragments into 5 pieaces each of which establish good sized wound tracks.

i have no particular interest in this ammo but I am interested in understanding why someone would want to discount such findings....it seems pretty solid. I agree it doesnt have an established reputation but neither do many excellent products.

Before making any conclusion on this super light load ask yourself this.......how do you think that round is going to do if an attacker is wearing think clothing? My guess is it is not going to penetrate well at all......but I'd like to see a ballistics test on it in gel with 4 layers of denim before I'd buy it.

Ok found exactly what I was looking for.......to me it looks liek it is basically a "frangible" projectile that did ok hetting through the four layes of denim and just exploded.. If that is what you are going for........cool. Me........I like the expansion and weight retention of my hornady 158 grain 357 mag.


Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPRigrtzNt0

 

[92G]

video in earlier post examines the 78gr .45acp through denim and into ballistics gel. it penetrated over 10 inches, demonstrated expansion and fragmentation.

i'm not saying I would carry this load in any defensive firearm, but i'm also not willing to conclude that it's crap....especially in the case of .380 where I have been completely underwhelmed by the performance of some "established" BJHPs like golden saber.