9mm ARs and MA Compliance

[SPO38]

I noticed that at the Marlborough show this past weekend, there was a dealer selling Quarter Circle 10 9mm carbines. Im also told that there is a large, well-known dealer selling these, who I'll refrain from naming until I know more about the status of these pieces.
With the quagmire of legal nonsense surrounding ARs and similar platforms, does anyone know if these are legal to possess?

 

[PappyM3]

By the letter of the law, they are legal to possess. I believe what you’re asking is if they conform with Healey’s enforcement notice so that FFLs can feel safe transferring/selling them.

They are blowback operated and don’t use a gas driven direct impingement system like the AR-15, nor can they accept AR-15 magazines. So I would say that the internal functional components are not “substantially similar” to use Healey’s extremely vague words.

However, they do seem to violate one of Healey’s “tests”. The interchangeability test seems to fail because the lowers do use AR triggers and other AR lower parts. But, so do .22lr ARs like the M&P 15-22, which Healey says are okay. So logical transfer says it’s also okay for the AR9s.

 

[CrackPot]

Legal? Yes. Healey compliant? who knows.

Her guidance has two tests: similarity and interchangeability.

Similarity it passes because it does not operate like a AR15

Interchangeability your receiver is allowed one interchangeable component with an enumerated receiver. The AR9 lower has an interchangeable trigger group. That is it. So this appears to pass.

BUT her guidance is vague and non-specific and therefore not valid were it the law. It says "such operating components may include, but are not limited to:" and then lists 5 components. "may" and "not limited" are how you write a press release and not how you legislate. There is no objective way to know what is legal given this language (were it the law). So, who knows.

You get to decide what you want to do.

 

[Chris5398]

A local indoor range/shop to me had a complete 9mm ar15 for sale brand new on the rack when I was there a few weeks ago. Lower was machined to only fit glock mags. Think they wanted something like 1100$ for it.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Better question with this awful MA nonsense is who would get in trouble if you bought one from an FFL and it turned out to not be kosher. You, the FFL, or both?

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Huh....so I was just reading the AWB (because, apparently, I hate myself). Specifically the "Interchangeability Test". Never really combed through it before. Says that a weapon is a copy of duplicate if it has a receiver that is...blah, blah, blah...if it includes or accepts two or more operating components.....such as:

1) Trigger assembly (most AR9's would fail this)
2) BCG (not the same as AR15)
3) Charging handle (get a side charger?)
4) Extractor (not the same as AR15)
5) Magazine port (not the same as AR15 if you get dedicated Glock, Colt, or MP5)

So if I'm now reading this correctly, does that mean most dedicated PCC mag lowers are legit? They would only have one interchangeable feature, the trigger group (if done with side charging).

 

[PappyM3]

Huh....so I was just reading the AWB (because, apparently, I hate myself). Specifically the "Interchangeability Test". Never really combed through it before. Says that a weapon is a copy of duplicate if it has a receiver that is...blah, blah, blah...if it includes or accepts two or more operating components.....such as:

1) Trigger assembly (most AR9's would fail this)
2) BCG (not the same as AR15)
3) Charging handle (get a side charger?)
4) Extractor (not the same as AR15)
5) Magazine port (not the same as AR15 if you get dedicated Glock, Colt, or MP5)

So if I'm now reading this correctly, does that mean most dedicated PCC mag lowers are legit? They would only have one interchangeable feature, the trigger group (if done with side charging).

I want to be very clear. The similarity test and interchangeability test ARE NOT part of the actual AWB. They have zero basis in law or precedent. They only exist from the fact that Healey says that’s how she somehow interprets the definition of “copy or duplicate”.

That said, in another thread it has been brought up that even shops that are very cautious have been selling AR9 type carbines. I think you’re good.

New DSI 9mm rifle

 

[jpm]

The Colt 9mm AR is the same lower as a regular AR but with a block pinned in the magazine well so the smaller 9mm mag will fit and lock in. But you can just drive the pins out and remove the block and its a standard lower, so my guess is that those would be a no-go unless you found a pre-ban one.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The Colt 9mm AR is the same lower as a regular AR but with a block pinned in the magazine well so the smaller 9mm mag will fit and lock in. But you can just drive the pins out and remove the block and its a standard lower, so those would be a no-go unless you found a pre-ban one.

What you say about the receiver is true. What level of work is required to render it an EBR is not defined anywhere by anyone. The better makes of 9x19 lowers are purpose built, not a conversion unit pinned in place.

 

[jpm]

What level of work is required to render it an EBR is not defined anywhere by anyone.

You think that would fly as a defense though? I'd expect if its easily modified with simple hand tools like a hammer and punch then its trouble.

 

[boilermaker]

So are we saying dedicated AR-9 lowers are GTG by Mass Dealers?

ETA - And yes, I realize it is up to the individual dealer to determine what they are comfortable with.

 

[22lr]

So are we saying dedicated AR-9 lowers are GTG by Mass Dealers?

Yes. Can someone please draft a memo?

 

[SPO38]

QC10 also makes one that takes MP5 magazines. Would this also be a go? I figure there's probably much more in the way of pre-ban mags.

 

[CrackPot]

Or you could read the answers already provided. You have not asked a new question but just the same one over again.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You think that would fly as a defense though? I'd expect if its easily modified with simple hand tools like a hammer and punch then its trouble.

I have absolutely no idea, which is why I am not going to declare where the line is. Anyone who claims to know is only being accurate if they precede it with "my guess is...". Ditto for lots of 10 round mags based on larger cap mags tubes without a breakway cut and dimple or similar. One vendor I know converts P-Mags to 10 rounds for MA and glues the basepad on, because that is his GUESS as to what is compliant.

With all due respect for the effort, you put forth your guess and declared it to be fact. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. There is no way to know for sure now.

We also don't know if the MA firearm definition of "a stripped lower is not a gun" would offer protection against the Healy declaration that "a stripped lower is a similar gun to ....". The only thing we do know is she has enough people running scared that her edict is nearly indistinguishable from law in everyday practice.

 

[jpm]

With all due respect for the effort, you put forth your guess and declared it to be fact. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. There is no way to know for sure now.
We also don't know if the MA firearm definition of "a stripped lower is not a gun" would offer protection against the Healy declaration that "a stripped lower is a similar gun to ....". The only thing we do know is she has enough people running scared that her edict is nearly indistinguishable from law in everyday practice.

Interesting points, thanx! I forgot about the stripped lower is not a gun thing, which is odd for here. You'd think it would be the opposite.

 

[DJBrad]

Just build it yourself with a dedicated 9mm lower. You’ll learn a lot and have fun doing it and you’ll get in before they start banning AR gun parts as out of state purchases. That would be very bad when that happens.