A Liberal Case for Gun Rights Helps Sway Judiciary

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Interesting article from all places, the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/us/06firearms.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

A Liberal Case for Gun Rights Helps Sway Judiciary
By ADAM LIPTAK

In March, for the first time in the nation’s history, a federal appeals court struck down a gun control law on Second Amendment grounds. Only a few decades ago, the decision would have been unimaginable.

There used to be an almost complete scholarly and judicial consensus that the Second Amendment protects only a collective right of the states to maintain militias. That consensus no longer exists — thanks largely to the work over the last 20 years of several leading liberal law professors, who have come to embrace the view that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to own guns.

In those two decades, breakneck speed by the standards of constitutional law, they have helped to reshape the debate over gun rights in the United States. Their work culminated in the March decision, Parker v. District of Columbia, and it will doubtless play a major role should the case reach the United States Supreme Court.

Laurence H. Tribe, a law professor at Harvard, said he had come to believe that the Second Amendment protected an individual right.

“My conclusion came as something of a surprise to me, and an unwelcome surprise,” Professor Tribe said. “I have always supported as a matter of policy very comprehensive gun control.”

The first two editions of Professor Tribe’s influential treatise on constitutional law, in 1978 and 1988, endorsed the collective rights view. The latest, published in 2000, sets out his current interpretation.

Several other leading liberal constitutional scholars, notably Akhil Reed Amar at Yale and Sanford Levinson at the University of Texas, are in broad agreement favoring an individual rights interpretation. Their work has in a remarkably short time upended the conventional understanding of the Second Amendment, and it set the stage for the Parker decision.

The earlier consensus, the law professors said in interviews, reflected received wisdom and political preferences rather than a serious consideration of the amendment’s text, history and place in the structure of the Constitution. “The standard liberal position,” Professor Levinson said, “is that the Second Amendment is basically just read out of the Constitution.”

The Second Amendment says, “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” (Some transcriptions of the amendment omit the last comma.)

If only as a matter of consistency, Professor Levinson continued, liberals who favor expansive interpretations of other amendments in the Bill of Rights, like those protecting free speech and the rights of criminal defendants, should also embrace a broad reading of the Second Amendment. And just as the First Amendment’s protection of the right to free speech is not absolute, the professors say, the Second Amendment’s protection of the right to keep and bear arms may be limited by the government, though only for good reason.

The individual rights view is far from universally accepted. “The overwhelming weight of scholarly opinion supports the near-unanimous view of the federal courts that the constitutional right to be armed is linked to an organized militia,” said Dennis A. Henigan, director of the legal action project of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. “The exceptions attract attention precisely because they are so rare and unexpected.”

Scholars who agree with gun opponents and support the collective rights view say the professors on the other side may have been motivated more by a desire to be provocative than by simple intellectual honesty.

“Contrarian positions get play,” Carl T. Bogus, a law professor at Roger Williams University, wrote in a 2000 study of Second Amendment scholarship. “Liberal professors supporting gun control draw yawns.”

If the full United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit does not step in and reverse the 2-to-1 panel decision striking down a law that forbids residents to keep handguns in their homes, the question of the meaning of the Second Amendment is almost certainly headed to the Supreme Court. The answer there is far from certain.

That too is a change. In 1992, Warren E. Burger, a former chief justice of the United States appointed by President Richard M. Nixon, expressed the prevailing view.

“The Second Amendment doesn’t guarantee the right to have firearms at all,” Mr. Burger said in a speech. In a 1991 interview, Mr. Burger called the individual rights view “one of the greatest pieces of fraud — I repeat the word ‘fraud’ — on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime.”

Even as he spoke, though, the ground was shifting underneath him. In 1989, in what most authorities say was the beginning of the modern era of mainstream Second Amendment scholarship, Professor Levinson published an article in The Yale Law Journal called “The Embarrassing Second Amendment.”

“The Levinson piece was very much a turning point,” said Mr. Henigan of the Brady Center. “He was a well-respected scholar, and he was associated with a liberal point of view politically.”

In an interview, Professor Levinson described himself as “an A.C.L.U.-type who has not ever even thought of owning a gun.”

Robert A. Levy, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, a libertarian group that supports gun rights, and a lawyer for the plaintiffs in the Parker case, said four factors accounted for the success of the suit. The first, Mr. Levy said, was “the shift in scholarship toward an individual rights view, particularly from liberals.”

He also cited empirical research questioning whether gun control laws cut down on crime; a 2001 decision from the federal appeals court in New Orleans that embraced the individual rights view even as it allowed a gun prosecution to go forward; and the Bush administration’s reversal of a longstanding Justice Department position under administrations of both political parties favoring the collective rights view.

Filing suit in the District of Columbia was a conscious decision, too, Mr. Levy said. The gun law there is one of the most restrictive in the nation, and questions about the applicability of the Second Amendment to state laws were avoided because the district is governed by federal law.

“We wanted to proceed very much like the N.A.A.C.P.,” Mr. Levy said, referring to that group’s methodical litigation strategy intended to do away with segregated schools.

Professor Bogus, a supporter of the collective rights view, said the Parker decision represented a milestone in that strategy. “This is the story of an enormously successful and dogged campaign to change the conventional view of the right to bear arms,” he said.

The text of the amendment is not a model of clarity, and arguments over its meaning tend to be concerned with whether the first part of the sentence limits the second. The history of its drafting and contemporary meaning provide support for both sides as well.

The Supreme Court has not decided a Second Amendment case since 1939. That ruling was, as Judge Stephen Reinhardt, a liberal judge on the federal appeals court in San Francisco acknowledged in 2002, “somewhat cryptic,” again allowing both sides to argue that Supreme Court precedent aided their interpretation of the amendment.

Still, nine federal appeals courts around the nation have adopted the collective rights view, opposing the notion that the amendment protects individual gun rights. The only exceptions are the Fifth Circuit, in New Orleans, and the District of Columbia Circuit. The Second Circuit, in New York, has not addressed the question.

Linda Singer, the District of Columbia’s attorney general, said the debate over the meaning of the amendment was not only an academic one.

“It’s truly a life-or-death question for us,” she said. “It’s not theoretical. We all remember very well when D.C. had the highest murder rate in the country, and we won’t go back there.”

The decision in Parker has been stayed while the full appeals court decides whether to rehear the case.

Should the case reach the Supreme Court, Professor Tribe said, “there’s a really quite decent chance that it will be affirmed.”
 
Those who embrace the collective notion of the Second Amendment do not desire to live free or in "a free state". They are more than willing to abrogate their rights and the rights of all others by whatever means in order to satisfy their own utopian delusions of the world around them.....OR They are in elected political offices or in other positions of power in government and seek to keep the public over which they rule, subdued.
 
The thing that amazes me is that IF you do accept a "collective" view towards the Second Ammendment; and assume that guns are only needed in the context of a true organzied militia....Then the militia should surely be armed with the type of weapons that would really scare the cr@p out of most anti gun folks (full-automatics, artillery pieces etc)? After all, what's the point of having a militia if it's ineffective?
 
collective my ass!

* Patrick Henry: "The great objective is that every man be armed. . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun."

* Samuel Adams: "The Constitution shall never be construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."


The First, Second, Fourth, Ninth and Tenth Amendments all use the term "The People", which is each & every individual, so why do these morons expect "The People" in the Second Amendment to be a collective when all the others are individual?


* George Mason: "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
 
I just hope all this isn't a big Liberal trick to look more Libertarian. The timing to election time is just too ominous. Of course, if they do get in like this, and then pull a "trojan horse" on the 2nd, the Dems will effectively finish themselves forever.
 
I just hope all this isn't a big Liberal trick to look more Libertarian. The timing to election time is just too ominous. Of course, if they do get in like this, and then pull a "trojan horse" on the 2nd, the Dems will effectively finish themselves forever.

Hollywood/DC "liberals" would never approve of the 2nd as an individual
right. I think the term "Liberal" as described in the article is from
more of an academic standpoint than a political one. The people taking
the "Liberal" views described in the article are lawyers and academia
types, not politicians. We won't see Hitlery or Osama Obama rolling out
the red carpet for individual gun rights anytime soon.

Of course this problem has persisted seemingly forever... 9 out of 10
times the people we see politically as "liberals" and "conservatives" typically
embody very few attributes related to the true meanings of either of those
words. The current reality is more like "Social Authoritarian" vs "Moral
Authoritarian". The latter part of both being the most prolific function-
a bunch of talking heads running around trying to insert themselves in
everyones' lives as a form of "service" from the friendly government. [rolleyes]

-Mike
 
The thing that amazes me is that IF you do accept a "collective" view towards the Second Ammendment; and assume that guns are only needed in the context of a true organzied militia....Then the militia should surely be armed with the type of weapons that would really scare the cr@p out of most anti gun folks (full-automatics, artillery pieces etc)? After all, what's the point of having a militia if it's ineffective?

One of the points that seems to get missed by a lot of people is that we don't even have the militia any more. The National Guard is not the militia - it is more like the Army farm league. If you look back thru US history you will notice that the miltias were "transformed" into the National Guard right around the same time this country's leaders started embracing socialist ideas. It was right before WWI that the National Guard was formed - Woodrow Wilson then took the US into WWI (in which many National Guard units served - the local bound militias that had previously existed would probably have NOT served overseas) - then Woodrow Wilson had the great idea of the League of Nations and getting the US involved all over the world. I believe income tax also reared it's ugly head around this same time.

You can trace a lot of the overreaching government and socialistic policies of our government back to this time period - and we are still dealing with the results of those policies today.

If the liberals and so forth want to keep arguing that the Second Amendment only applies to those who serve in the militia - then my reply is - Fine - reconstitute the militia then. I will be keeping my SAW at home - thank you very much.
 
We won't see Hitlery or Osama Obama rolling out
the red carpet for individual gun rights anytime soon.

-Mike

I like this! A new bumper sticker that says: What do Hitler, Hillary and Obama
have in common? Personal Gun Ownership Bans! [smile]

Before anyone else jumps in, we could also have just about every other
candidate plastered on that sticker as well.
 
Yup....they allpretty much suck when it comes to the 2A. AFAIK there are 2 or 3 candidates who are pro 2A and OK, or at least acceptable, (-- in my opinion -- ) on other issues. Ron Paul, Bill Richardsson and maybe Mike Huckabee...All the others this year suck when it comes to the 2A. How does Clinton/Giuliani or Obama/Romney sound for the election of '08? [crying]
 
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I find it hard to understand how someone could argue that there could be a collective right to self defense, but no individual right to self defense. Someone suddenly has a right to defend themselves that they didn't have before just because they're in a group? Makes no sense to me.

If they'd taken New Hampshire's suggestion and added "Congress shall never disarm any Citizen unless such as are or have been in Actual Rebellion" to the constitution, we wouldn't have this debate.
 
I find it hard to understand how someone could argue that there could be a collective right to self defense, but no individual right to self defense. Someone suddenly has a right to defend themselves that they didn't have before just because they're in a group? Makes no sense to me.

If they'd taken New Hampshire's suggestion and added "Congress shall never disarm any Citizen unless such as are or have been in Actual Rebellion" to the constitution, we wouldn't have this debate.

Yes - except for the fact that one of the purposes that the founding fathers specifically intended for the 2nd amendment was so that citizens could revolt.

I believe the wording somewhere in there says something about when govt. no longer serves the purposes of the people - it should be replaced.
 
What I find hard to believe is that anyone could argue that "the right of the people" has different meanings in the same document. If they want to interpret it as a collective right, then wouldn't it also apply to 1st & 4th amendments as well?
 
One of the points that seems to get missed by a lot of people is that we don't even have the militia any more. The National Guard is not the militia - it is more like the Army farm league. If you look back thru US history you will notice that the miltias were "transformed" into the National Guard right around the same time this country's leaders started embracing socialist ideas. ...

Uhhhh, I don't think so.
10 USC 311

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Most statists would like everyone to believe that the National Guard is the militia; a lot of other people have been taken in by this canard. While I haven't met the specified age limit since the first Bush was in the Oval Office, I still know a few people who do. Why, I think there are even one or two here on NES.

Ken
 
I meet the requirments of (a) and I'll take option (b)(2)... now where is my SAW?


If I read 10 USC 311 correct and this BS of the "collective right of the militia" were to be believed than women who are not in the Natioal Guard can't protect themselves with a gun?... What happened to the equal rights movement?
 
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Uhhhh, I don't think so.

Most statists would like everyone to believe that the National Guard is the militia; a lot of other people have been taken in by this canard. While I haven't met the specified age limit since the first Bush was in the Oval Office, I still know a few people who do. Why, I think there are even one or two here on NES.

Ken


The point is that the "unorganized" part of the militia is essentially non-existant. And it is the part of the militia we now call "unorganized" that used to be the organized militia - that is before the Federal government neatly came up with the National Guard and turned the "militia" away from the intent that the founding fathers had for it.

It was the citizen staffed - unorganized militia that the founding fathers saw as a bulwark against a tyrannical government - as well as a first line of defense against foreign enemies. The federal govt. controlled military we now call the National Guard now gets involved in foreign wars, controlling campus riots like at Kent State, and does things like going around confiscating weapons from law abiding citizens in New Orleans. Not exactly what I would call the original intent of the founders of this country. I find it hard to believe that our current National Guard would be willing to defend their home states against the depradations of a tyrannical federal govt. They would most likely be the first ones called into service FOR the federal govt.

I still say - we need to reinstitute the militia - the militia the way it was originally intended - and do away with the National Guard. This would go a long way towards returning this country back to the republic it was intended to be.
 
The real root of the problem isn't the National Guard, but that the "unorganized militia", which is still around and numbers in the tens of millions, simply couldn't be bothered and disarmed themselves, in a lot of cases pressured by the states rather than the feds. There were some things that were better in the old days, when some people still remembered what if meant to "belong" to another country.

The Militia Act of 1792

I. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, That each and every free able-bodied white male citizen of the respective States, resident therein, who is or shall be of age of eighteen years, and under the age of forty-five years (except as is herein after excepted) shall severally and respectively be enrolled in the militia, by the Captain or Commanding Officer of the company, within whose bounds such citizen shall reside, and that within twelve months after the passing of this Act. And it shall at all time hereafter be the duty of every such Captain or Commanding Officer of a company, to enroll every such citizen as aforesaid, and also those who shall, from time to time, arrive at the age of 18 years, or being at the age of 18 years, and under the age of 45 years (except as before excepted) shall come to reside within his bounds; and shall without delay notify such citizen of the said enrollment, by the proper non-commissioned Officer of the company, by whom such notice may be proved. That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of power and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and power-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a power of power; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service, except, that when called out on company days to exercise only, he may appear without a knapsack. That the commissioned Officers shall severally be armed with a sword or hanger, and espontoon; and that from and after five years from the passing of this Act, all muskets from arming the militia as is herein required, shall be of bores sufficient for balls of the eighteenth part of a pound; and every citizen so enrolled, and providing himself with the arms, ammunition and accoutrements, required as aforesaid, shall hold the same exempted from all suits, distresses, executions or sales, for debt or for the payment of taxes.

Ken
 
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