If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS February Giveaway ***Canik TP9SF Elite***
What I’m trying to say is how does a map of the school, which would definitely help with post-Incident walk through, improve school safety??Where in my post did I imply anything other than what you're saying here?
In fact, you're essentially restating what I said: that these tools would help out-of-town officers help CLEAR. Meaning, search the building for other suspects. I'm quite well aware how most school shootings go down.
As for your second point, I've got a dozen posts scattered all over NES in favor of arming people on the scene.
What I’m trying to say is how does a map of the school, which would definitely help with post-Incident walk through, improve school safety??
Here is a big question... Every police officer should have a key card or keys on their person to access schools and other government buildings.. grab a rifle and run towards the shooting..none of it helps if the cops are too scared to go in.
All of this would stop tomorrow if we armed teachers/janitors and administrators who qualify for an LTC.
You should be in charge, russian government killed more hostages than terorists thinking like this in 2002 in a theater.Why not have an Ansul-type system that pumps in knockout gas through the whole school and then just walk in all masked-up and cuff the intruder...?
What could go wrong...?
View attachment 678202View attachment 678203
Or the cameras in Epstein's prisonI wonder the backup plan for when the technology fails, cause technology fails all the time.
Look at Apollo 13, or the challanger
How easy it is to scare people and get them to agree to almost anything.At least Taunton is doing something PROACTIVE, rather than REACTIVE. jmo
I agree with the idea, something's better than nothing. But it doesn't mean that those people won't also be to scared or capable of engaging in and winning a gun fight with someone who might have a long gun, more ammo, body armor, etc.none of it helps if the cops are too scared to go in.
All of this would stop tomorrow if we armed teachers/janitors and administrators who qualify for an LTC.
didn’t they try this in Russia?Why not have an Ansul-type system that pumps in knockout gas through the whole school and then just walk in all masked-up and cuff the intruder...?
What could go wrong...?
View attachment 678202View attachment 678203
of course but I think most people with an LTC would use it when needed....I guess we'd think that about cops too...difference here is these LTC holding adults are already stuck inside the building with the shooter. There's a huge difference between being faced with imminent death vs charging into a building with a shooter to save someone else's kid. I'd bet 9/10 times a teacher with a gun would use it when the shooter got to their classroom. Not recommending teachers try to hunt the shooter down in the hallways.I agree with the idea, something's better than nothing. But it doesn't mean that those people won't also be to scared or capable of engaging in and winning a gun fight with someone who might have a long gun, more ammo, body armor, etc.
Good point, going into the fire vs getting out of it are definitely two different things.of course but I think most people with an LTC would use it when needed....I guess we'd think that about cops too...difference here is these LTC holding adults are already stuck inside the building with the shooter. There's a huge difference between being faced with imminent death vs charging into a building with a shooter to save someone else's kid. I'd bet 9/10 times a teacher with a gun would use it when the shooter got to their classroom. Not recommending teachers try to hunt the shooter down in the hallways.
Hey! My idea was for Nitrous Oxide (laughing gas.) Not the stuff the Commies used...didn’t they try this in Russia?
Moscow theater hostage crisis - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
All 40 of the insurgents were shot dead when unconscious, and up to 130 hostages died during the siege, including 9 foreigners, due to the toxic substance pumped into the theater.
A study published in 2012 concluded that it had been a mixture of carfentanil and remifentanyl. The same study pointed out that in a 2011 case at the European Court of Human Rights, the Russian government stated that the aerosol used was a mixture of a fentanyl derivative and a chemical compound with a narcotic action.
So, Reverse Prison...Active security monitoring all entry and exit points. Maglock doors with central control and manual override. Double door security at entry points. Stop letting the bastards in.
Great post.What happens when you have a janitor and several teachers in plain clothes, a detective (in plain clothes) who was out getting lunch and the off-duty rookie police yahoo in skinny jeans and a shedium t-shirt who was driving by and is now going in with a truck gun and no radio? And none of them knows who the other is.
Are any or all disciplined enough to hold back and ID each other without opening fire just because they see a male in plain clothes with a gun in his hand, specifically at a call for an active shooter, with no other information or description available of the shooter? Or shooters. Plus 01 rule. Where’s there’s one bad guy you always have to suspect and prepare for the possibility that there’s a second or even third shooter.
I’ve personally run this scenerio dozens of times while teaching the course and friendly fire is always a very large presence and high risk. It’s very difficult when you have numerous people rushing in thru different access doors, all armed, all scared and all amped up, to keep them from shooting each other, but it’s an incredibly important thing to be aware of and to set your mind to.
Gun does not equal bad guy. ID ID ID. You might come around a corner and see an adult male, with his back to you, raising a gun to fire at another adult male or a teenage kid. Which one is the shooter and which one is trying to stop the shooter?
We’ve tried to run it so that any plainclothes officers are trained to stay outside the red zone and assist with casualty collection and setting up a triage point, perimeter security, comms, getting a TOC up and running among other tasks, but it’s just an impossibility to get some people to not go in, it’s just who they are and why they became cops, so that’s not a feasible tactic to push.
Even when uniformed officers are in formation and moving down the hallways, with a diff set of responders heading right at them, all it takes is for one rifle barrel or pistol being flagged around a corner from either point man or a lone responder in jeans and hoodie who hasn’t linked up yet and joined a formation, fire alarms and sprinklers and strobes likely going off, people screaming and running in every direction, wounded pulling at your pants leg and begging for help as you step over and keep moving towards the threat, it’s chaos, and almost on cue, someone, fearing that rifle barrel, always opens up on him thinking they got the jump on the bad guy and getting snappy with their trigger before even seeing who the person is. That one or two shots then turns into a dozen shots back and forth and they don’t even know who’s who yet. The bad guy’s still shooting 3 hallways away. What’re you gonna do now PL?
Any way I’ve run that scenario with hundreds of students in dozens of classes, it ends up with some friendlies shooting at each other due to lack of discipline and fear, we purposely put those scenarios in there to make them aware of it, and this is only with Simms rounds and they know that, yet they still can’t control the adrenaline and fear to stay off that trigger until ID is made. There’s so many more things that can and do go wrong when running these scenarios. Simply put it’s a shitshow no matter how smoothly you run it or how many times you do it over and over again to work out those things, because each time it will be different. Different people. Different training. Different bad guy(s).
These things are in no way simple to conduct in any shape or form or even train for. It may seem easy enough to picture it all in your head, but when you’re actually in it, everything changes.
How easy it is to scare people and get them to agree to almost anything.
So, Reverse Prison...
We have that level of entry denial at our embassies and consulates. In any given year, the number of intruder containment situations at all of our diplomatic missions combined is less than the number of school shootings in any given month. A current trend is these school shootings are being done by people that don't even go to the school.So, Reverse Prison...
It’s sad when you see dirtbag politicians spending upwards of 1M of our money on their own personal security per year, and not a dime of it on our kids security, only pumping money in to teach their communist agenda.How much defense in depth do you think you'd have to go through to gain entry to the West Wing? I lock the doors to our home, have cameras and peepholes; am I imprisoning my kids when we're indoors?
Lock the doors and arm willing teachers. Act like what is inside is worth protecting, because it is.
Agreed but most teachers want nothing to do with it. My cousin is a long time teacher in the Sturbridge school system and she told me she’d quit if guns were allowed in school. She was with some friends and they all agreed. I’m sure some would carry but I bet it would be a very low number. But some is better then none in my opinion.
Active security monitoring all entry and exit points. Maglock doors with central control and manual override. Double door security at entry points. Stop letting the bastards in.
none of it helps if the cops are too scared to go in.
All of this would stop tomorrow if we armed teachers/janitors and administrators who qualify for an LTC.
Agreed but most teachers want nothing to do with it. My cousin is a long time teacher in the Sturbridge school system and she told me she’d quit if guns were allowed in school. She was with some friends and they all agreed. I’m sure some would carry but I bet it would be a very low number. But some is better then none in my opinion.
just like Cher, Springsteen, et al, were going to leave the country when OMB got elected. Your cousin is all talk, no action. The senior janitor could be authorized to stroll down the corridors with an SKS strapped across his chest. Your cousin is not giving up her pension or her summer's off work schedule to make a point about anything.
All talk.
Ask her if in an active shooter situation, would she rather see 5 children die before the aforementioned janitor "cleans house", or would she rather see 10 children die before the cops arrive. When she dodges the direct question and says it would be best if the authorities handled it, call her a simpleton, imbecile and moron.
If she doesn't want to carry, that's cool. She knows her limitations.