Agreed 100%.
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Another Linsky special: H.2486 all approved safety courses include live-fire training MA
- Thread starter Dr. Claw
- Start date
I took the MFS class for the LTC requirement when I moved to MA. They let you plink a couple rounds with a Ruger .22 pistol so they can red stamp "live fire certified" on your class certificate. Apparently police chiefs like to see it. Had to take a 8 hour NRA pistol class for my CT non res permit application and did it over at Hamilton in Sturbridge. That place was nice - had a whole row of different guns kitted out with red dots (all 22s) and then as a little "treat" they brought out the center fire handguns and you got to shoot 5 rounds of 9, 40 or 45 to top it off and feel what real recoil is. Classes are great. Mandates are not. The fact I had to go thru all that after having spent years shooting at Camp Atterbury on a weekly basis was ridiculous.
MisterHappy
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Um....I'm pretty sure that there are posters in this thread do not know it - go look back.
And I was merely pointing out that the bolded text that I replied to was, in fact, accurate and not a lie- it is possible to get an LTC, unrestricted, without having fired a gun. There is no statutory prohibition.
Quote
It turns out that, if you haven’t been diagnosed with a mental illness, and if you’re not a felon or a drug abuser, you can buy a gun in Massachusetts and carry it around with you, concealed on your person, without having fired that gun or any other gun. Ever.
I see.. My point was that his quote was not true because just because you meet those condition (not mentally ill according to the state, not a felon/gun user) doesn't equal the ability to carry. If you are not blank doesn't mean LTC in MA. Its a real simplified biased statement by this guy
But yeah live fire is not a requirement in most places and you are right... People do not read the requirements/ know if it is required or not
Either way three shots out of a 22 from 3 yards doesn't make anyone safer
kevin9
NES Member
I was not questioning the facts of what you say, nor that you had to deal with such a f'd up licensing scheme. My observation was to the larger point of whether live-fire training should be required by law for ownership or licensing, and the even larger point of whether state licensing should be required by law at all.
Dennis in MA
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I hear the next bill will to require classes in live opinion-sharing for toddlers learning to speak. Because all rights require government training and approval.
What if you wanna carry a .50AE Deagle someday? Back to the quals test again then. Best to just do the test with the biggest number caliber in existence. Once you wear the biggest strap on, you know the littler ones work too right?
cathouse01
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That is the official purpose of the CMP - The Civilian Marksmanship Program:
I am all in favor of training, but it is the proverbial “slippery slope” when you make it a requirement to exercise your 2nd Amendment right to keep AND BEAR arms (emphasis added). You start out with requiring a class to conceal carry. Then the powers that be realize that there is nothing to actual stop you from conceal carrying a handgun if you own it, so they up the anti to you have to have it to even own a handgun (even for home defense). Then they say, well most of the people don’t really need to carry a handgun for self defense, so we’ll add a bunch of restriction on who can own a handgun. It just keeps getting worse, since their goal is never actual safety, but simply restricting a right they don’t like.
Fine, I'll be contrary. If you DON'T have training and are carrying, you are a f'ing liability, both to yourself AND the general public. I've been on a public range, rarely do I see people who can consistently hit anywhere near the 5 ring outside of 3 yards while slow firing.
Open carry shouldn't be banned, but you should be smarter than that. I can only think of one or two legitimate reasons to open carry over concealed.
allen-1
NES Member
![[kiss]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/022.gif "Kiss [kiss]")
LT5
NES Member
I didn’t mean to insinuate that was your position. My response was meant to the article not you directly. That’s why I cut everything else out. I probably should’ve just copied the link instead of replying to you.
Don't confuse what the law should be with what is a good idea.
I support training, I do not support gov mandated training. The gov F's everything up.
I don't think open carry should be against the law, I do think it is stupid in all but a very few situations and should never be used to "make a point".
I think a lot of new gun owners really need to think about their choices more and get training and learn to handle a gun more safely, I don't think more laws is the way to make this happen.
I support training, I do not support gov mandated training. The gov F's everything up.
I don't think open carry should be against the law, I do think it is stupid in all but a very few situations and should never be used to "make a point".
I think a lot of new gun owners really need to think about their choices more and get training and learn to handle a gun more safely, I don't think more laws is the way to make this happen.
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so does this mean the state now hires additional useless d-bags to conduct audits? More lazy, useless, affirmative action hacks? More pensions? More job security for life?
Me too. I’ve seen some really stupid shit on military and civilian ranges. I just think a person who’s never touched a gun and wants to get one should just seek out out some training. There bad and unsafe habits can come later when they are a little salty
.Interesting story for you guys:
I train up at Sig a few times a year and I was doing one of there advanced rifle courses. There were 2 cops from Newtown CT in the class, Yes…Sandy Hook Newtown CT. They started with the basic rifles classes and moved up to the advanced classes. I said good for you for taking initiative and getting training, I know PD’s suck when it comes to that kind of stuff. They said “ya, the Department just handed us an AR15 with 5 rounds to blast off and said your good to go!”
They said they have never even seen or held a rifle before and the PD just threw one at them.
Those 2 young cops took the initiative on their own, and paid for it themselves, to get training from the ground up at the Sig Academy. So that’s over 1K in training that the PD won’t even reimburse them for.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
Let me tell you something. I was on a pistol team and those people are already on the line. It wasn’t pretty and a few of us were pretty pissed off about the lack of following basic safety rules. All of the violations were from people who should have known better.
Lank
NES Member
Shouldn't people mind their own fxking business about how I incorporate the constitution in my daily life? Talk about Karen behaivor?
I agree. But I can tell you from my own experience as an instructor and from talking with other instructors . . . that most people these days do not seek out any training more than the minimum required to get a LTC. The only exception are those that want to think of themselves as "operators" and take advanced classes in tactics that they will never legally be able to use to "defend" themselves without getting into heavy legal expenses. [e.g. shoot at someone 100 yds away that is trespassing and in most states you will face charges unless the person was holding a rifle aimed at you.]
Unfortunately, most do. If there is 'anything' I can somewhat go along with these people, it's training before you leave the house with a gun on your hip.
I would never go along, because I absolutely know it's a slippery slope, but in some unicorn world, if that was the only prerequisite to getting a gun, I'd be 'good' with that. Knowing it's the nose of a camel, I wouldn't vote or press to make it a requirement as it stands.
babygorilla
NES Member
Easy answer to Linsky's problem, and one that I think most gun owners would agree with. Bring back High School shooting teams, and make firearm safety and handling part of a freshman's gym class.
There will be less accidental shootings of youth, and the class could be NRA certified, allowing you to get a firearm at 18.
Start them at Freshman with pellet guns, then .22LR, and transition all the way up to shotgun and large caliber pistol by senior year.
There will be less accidental shootings of youth, and the class could be NRA certified, allowing you to get a firearm at 18.
Start them at Freshman with pellet guns, then .22LR, and transition all the way up to shotgun and large caliber pistol by senior year.
thorin
NES Member
I think one thing people are neglecting is that you need an LTC just to OWN a handgun in MA. I think the number of people who get one and are going to immediately start carrying daily are in the minority. Even amongst all the gun folks I know, only a percentage carries frequently. In most other states you can buy and own whatever you want, and then when they want to CCW deal with whatever additional hoops.
I live in Western MA, there are NO commercial ranges within an hour of me. I sure as heck am not in favor of my club, one of the few around, being commandeered once a week for newbs to get a state-required training. We are small and low profile and don't want people in who are not guests of members. Now, if the state builds a bunch of new ranges to accommodate this change, that would be a great side benefit but that is fantasy unicorn land. So not only do you add the cost of the live fire but the cost and burden of the travel.
I got my LTC long ago after having hunter ed., no live fire, because I wanted to hunt with a shotgun. Didn't get my first handgun until a few years later. Next to no formal training (other than in the Boy Scouts as a kid with single shot bolt 22's) but having read plenty of books, shooting IDPA, shooting with more experienced folks and having a safe mindset I feel like I'm pretty dang competent carrying. I've taken plenty of people to the range for some fun shooting and basic safety training, several of who went on to take the course and get an LTC.
This whole article is a stunt by a journo who wanted to manufacture their own evidence to prove their point. Shooting is a pretty common activity and outside of the city of Boston, I bet a whole lot of people who get their LTC have shot a gun plenty of times. Its like they want class B licenses (remember those) back. This is purely about reducing the number of LTC's by installing the biggest hurdles they can think of into the process.
I live in Western MA, there are NO commercial ranges within an hour of me. I sure as heck am not in favor of my club, one of the few around, being commandeered once a week for newbs to get a state-required training. We are small and low profile and don't want people in who are not guests of members. Now, if the state builds a bunch of new ranges to accommodate this change, that would be a great side benefit but that is fantasy unicorn land. So not only do you add the cost of the live fire but the cost and burden of the travel.
I got my LTC long ago after having hunter ed., no live fire, because I wanted to hunt with a shotgun. Didn't get my first handgun until a few years later. Next to no formal training (other than in the Boy Scouts as a kid with single shot bolt 22's) but having read plenty of books, shooting IDPA, shooting with more experienced folks and having a safe mindset I feel like I'm pretty dang competent carrying. I've taken plenty of people to the range for some fun shooting and basic safety training, several of who went on to take the course and get an LTC.
This whole article is a stunt by a journo who wanted to manufacture their own evidence to prove their point. Shooting is a pretty common activity and outside of the city of Boston, I bet a whole lot of people who get their LTC have shot a gun plenty of times. Its like they want class B licenses (remember those) back. This is purely about reducing the number of LTC's by installing the biggest hurdles they can think of into the process.
Mike S
NES Member
It's obvious racism on Linsky's part, an effort to disenfranchise low-income residents living in impoverished areas with no access to places to shoot.
Everyone should call him tomorrow and ask him, if he supports voter ID, or if he thinks it's racist. If he replies racism, ask what then is an ID requirement to exercise 2A rights?
Everyone should call him tomorrow and ask him, if he supports voter ID, or if he thinks it's racist. If he replies racism, ask what then is an ID requirement to exercise 2A rights?
Great post sir! That’s what drives me bonkers about MA. The powers at be think paying a $100 for an unconstitutional license makes you safe and everbody else safe.
Truth be told very few LTC holders in MA carry.
Even in my former PD, only one out of ~26 officers carried all the time off-duty. Even my first chief (USMC, Sgt and Veteran of WWII and Korea with personal shooting trophies in his office) only carried rarely off-duty. I only carried when going into Boston/Cambridge in the evening or Brockton anytime back in those days.
Even in recent times, only a few handfuls of gun club members (at 2 of the 4 clubs I belonged to over 45 yrs) carried at the clubs. I'm certain that it is different in other states, but still a minority of licensed gun owners.
Even in my former PD, only one out of ~26 officers carried all the time off-duty. Even my first chief (USMC, Sgt and Veteran of WWII and Korea with personal shooting trophies in his office) only carried rarely off-duty. I only carried when going into Boston/Cambridge in the evening or Brockton anytime back in those days.
Even in recent times, only a few handfuls of gun club members (at 2 of the 4 clubs I belonged to over 45 yrs) carried at the clubs. I'm certain that it is different in other states, but still a minority of licensed gun owners.
People forget that there's a metric shit ton of lefties/moonbats/libs that own guns in MA too. There might be 400k LTC but I bet an easy 65% of that number are moonbats or fake independents that don't vote properly or don't even really care. It's not that hard to find them. A fun indicator is the people who seem to normalize the LTC process as being legitimate and not abuse. They think "having a gun license" is normal. 
Sometimes I keep my mouth shut other times they get a "Do you understand how f***ed up that actually is?" Lecture, lol.
Sometimes I keep my mouth shut other times they get a "Do you understand how f***ed up that actually is?" Lecture, lol.
