AR-15 BCG UN-STUCK!

meth0d

meth0d

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** All set, broke free after a few whacks grabbing the CH per the helpful suggestions below! **

I need some HELP!

I can't seem to get the BCG to unlock from the chamber and move rearward within the upper, it's locked up in the fully closed position. I've tried yanking real hard on the charging handle but she won't budge. [thinking]

Just sprayed some Breakfree CLP in and will let it soak and see if that helps.

I've been using Hoppe's Elite Gun Oil, but I think it may be time to switch.

Upper specs for reference:

DSA M4 Flat top upper
White Oak Armament 18" SPR barrel, rifle length gas
Young Mfg NM Chrome FA BCG
LMT Charging handle

Any suggestions welcome, thanks!
 
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You weren't using Wolf lacquer coated ammo by any chance were you?

Try holding the rifle vertically and whacking the butt of the rifle 'smartly' onto the ground.
 
hminsky said:
You weren't using Wolf lacquer coated ammo by any chance were you?

Try holding the rifle vertically and whacking the butt of the rifle 'smartly' onto the ground.
Click to expand...

I ran 40 rounds of Wolf through it to try it out, but the box said they were polymer coated.[thinking]

I'll give it a whack against the ground, thanks!
 
New barrel with a tight chamber. Your should run a few hundred full power brass cased rounds first to break it in it should loosen up a bit.
 
WOOOOOOOO! UNSTUCK!

I tried a few whacks and it came loose a little bit, came back and saw the post to pull the charging handle while banging it on the ground, so I tried that and it popped right out!

Thank you very much guys! [party]

Glad I checked it tonight, instead of waiting until I got up to the middle of Maine with no NES access, hahaha

ETA: It's rather disconcerting to go out and purposefully bang $1600+ worth of rifle and glass against the ground!
 
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I have watched the poly-coated Tula and Wolf stick in the chambers of: My 20" Model 1, my 16" Model 1 (well used, used to eat thousands of Wolf rounds no problems), my Colt 6920, my YHM 20", my co-worker's Mark 18, and a completely random shooter's 16" RRA.

I think there's something seriously wrong with what they've been making lately - it was never this bad. Give me back the lacquer coated stuff!
 
This thread makes me sick to my stomach that I'm actually building a $2k+ AR.

Seriously? That kind of an AR, built from decent quality components, will jam up in a very bad way? Yikes...
 
Steel cased ammo is best used in 5.56 chambered rifles. Do you know what chamber the White Oak bbl is using?
flintoid, shit happens regardless of the price of rifle or even the ammo you use. That's why malfunction clearance is part of firearms training.
 
flintoid said:
This thread makes me sick to my stomach that I'm actually building a $2k+ AR.

Seriously? That kind of an AR, built from decent quality components, will jam up in a very bad way? Yikes...
Click to expand...

i'll take it when you're done. [wink]

gotta watch out for that lacquer stuff, i've run wolf ammo, and i've seen friends run it with no issues. ARs are definitely picky beasts. not sure how but i ended up with a few boxes of core-lokt .223 and my rifle would jam up every round. the core-lokt rounds were JSPs and the soft lead would hit the feed ramp and then the bolt would close on the cartridge. bad juju. worked OK in drgrant's rifle so he shot the ammo for me.
 
andy t said:
Steel cased ammo is best used in 5.56 chambered rifles. Do you know what chamber the White Oak bbl is using?
flintoid, shit happens regardless of the price of rifle or even the ammo you use. That's why malfunction clearance is part of firearms training.
Click to expand...

either that or there are chamber issues, like you are alluding to. Being that headspace is set by God's Will of the machinist who crafted the AR barrel chamber and bolt (two separate machinists from separate companies, mind you), wouldn't you think that, even though It's The Best Rifle On the Face of The Planet (I read a little bit of your blog, fb), couldn't there be issues with assembling it from parts?

Or are these guns HS'd so tight that you need to custom order your ammunition? I'm not trolling here- I'm trying to better understand a platform that I've never built- I've only done battle rifles like the AK and FAL.

The headspace of the AR-15 and the setting of it has always astounded me- both the AK and FAL require you, the builder, to determine the headspace. Gauge it properly, with your own hands, eyes, and fingers. Use your brain to determine setback, how tight you want it and for what ammo you will be running. While the AR requires you to turn a barrel into a receiver?

Couldn't headspace be an issue here? Expanding cases due to improper headspace? Or it could be an incorrectly machined chamber?

-Devil's advocate
 
The barrel is a Wylde chamber, .223 and 5.56 NATO.

The folks at Rainier Arms checked the headspace the bolt with the barrel for me when I ordered the parts.

I think the problem was caused by the coating on the Wolf ammo as a lot of other people have experienced with AR-15s (based on readings on the interwebz).

So far I've run the following through it:

290 rounds of 55 grain Ultramax remanufactured FMJ. - one FTE and one FTF, (could have been the excessive amount of oil I had on the gun) I single fed the round that had the FTF and it went off on the 2nd firing pin strike.

20 rounds of Hornady Superformance 5.56mm 75 grain HPBT. - No problems, noticeably more accurate than the Ultramax (as is expected from Match ammo [laugh])

40 rounds of Wolf 55 grain .223, polymer coated. - No problems during firing, stuck BCG after the fact.
 
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flintoid said:
either that or there are chamber issues, like you are alluding to. Being that headspace is set by God's Will of the machinist who crafted the AR barrel chamber and bolt (two separate machinists from separate companies, mind you), wouldn't you think that, even though It's The Best Rifle On the Face of The Planet (I read a little bit of your blog, fb), couldn't there be issues with assembling it from parts?

Or are these guns HS'd so tight that you need to custom order your ammunition? I'm not trolling here- I'm trying to better understand a platform that I've never built- I've only done battle rifles like the AK and FAL.

The headspace of the AR-15 and the setting of it has always astounded me- both the AK and FAL require you, the builder, to determine the headspace. Gauge it properly, with your own hands, eyes, and fingers. Use your brain to determine setback, how tight you want it and for what ammo you will be running. While the AR requires you to turn a barrel into a receiver?

Couldn't headspace be an issue here? Expanding cases due to improper headspace? Or it could be an incorrectly machined chamber?

-Devil's advocate
Click to expand...

Wait till you see your first case separation coupled with a double feed. I've seen a few very nice ARs (that never saw a steel cartridge in their life) have very bad jams requiring a rod to remove.

Jams will eventually happen no matter what gun you have, though its true an AR will jam more frequently than an AK. Know how to clear them and have the equipment on hand to do so.

ETA: Common reasons for AR FTE: Case lip separation/rounding, full case separation, rounded extractor lip and/or old extractor spring/oring.

I shoot a fair amount of steel ammo. I replace my extractor kit every 3k rounds as preventative maintenance. It's cheap and provides me peace of mind. YMMV.
 
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From my understanding headspace issues are not often seen in ARs. If they do surface, it tends to be catastrophic. I did buy a USGI field headspace gauge that I use when mating a used bolt with a new/used bbl. I have never had the bolt fail the gauge test yet.
The chamber is a much bigger concern on ARs. Especially when shooting steel case ammo. Read this before running steel cased ammo.
Unless a rifle is from a known good manufacturer, the markings on the bbl are suspect. The only way to really determine what kind of chamber you have it so either:
take a cast and measure it
or
Run a 5.56 reamer down the chamber to see if any material comes out.
I also match the ammo with the purpose of a rifle. I see no point in running steel case out of Wylde chambered, precision AR at a distance (>100 meters) when shooting for groups. However, I use steel cased exclusively when training with carbines from 0-200 yards. I even get hits at 300 when I do my part.
Over two training classes with rigorous firing schedule, I had one stuck case in a class that I had to mortar my rifle to clear. Other than that, knock on wood, it has been running "straight hot and normal".
 
meth0d said:
So far I've run the following through it:

290 rounds of 55 grain Ultramax remanufactured FMJ. - one FTE and one FTF, (could have been the excessive amount of oil I had on the gun) I single fed the round that had the FTF and it went off on the 2nd firing pin strike.

20 rounds of Hornady Superformance 5.56mm 75 grain HPBT. - No problems, noticeably more accurate than the Ultramax (as is expected from Match ammo [laugh])

40 rounds of Wolf 55 grain .223, polymer coated. - No problems during firing, stuck BCG after the fact.
Click to expand...


NOoooooo!!!!!!

You're feeding your 2k rifle with crappy ammo. Crank up the wallet and get some good, quality ammo. No wolf, ultramax reload please.

i.e. you don't fill up your bentley/ferrari/porsche with regular unleaded.
 
chinalfr said:
NOoooooo!!!!!!

You're feeding your 2k rifle with crappy ammo. Crank up the wallet and get some good, quality ammo. No wolf, ultramax reload please.

i.e. you don't fill up your bentley/ferrari/porsche with regular unleaded.
Click to expand...

I have a 2k rifle that has over 7k rounds of tula/wolf thru it. Some guns like it, some guns don't. Get a reamer and most guns will not have issues.
 
chinalfr said:
NOoooooo!!!!!!

You're feeding your 2k rifle with crappy ammo. Crank up the wallet and get some good, quality ammo. No wolf, ultramax reload please.

i.e. you don't fill up your bentley/ferrari/porsche with regular unleaded.
Click to expand...

Why spend the money on better ammo when you are not going to see the benefit. Short range matches and practice, I burn through Tula, leaving the handloads for when accuracy matter. If your rifle will not run Tula, then there is something wrong with it.
 
im going to go out on a limb...........
Did you clean the upper I MEAN REALLY CLEAN IT. before assembly and test fire. I am no expert on ARs. but have put together 6 in the last 2 years. All the parts and uppers I recieved where in my eyes,,,frign DIRTY from a sticky anti corrosion type of film to metal bits left over from machine work right out of the box. New guns and parts are not clean. Also most anti corrosion crap they put on is not a lube.
From my youth.....my dad always told me after I cleaned any of my guns, clean it again.
Now Im not one for strict cleaning. I do a quick wipe,bore snake and light lube after a range trip with my ARs. I have a franken built parts sourced from everywhere AR it has eaten nothing but wolf the new stuff and old greenish laquer stuff going on 2k plus rounds now. I have been lucky and only run into bad magazines and some dead primers. yet to have any wolf jam in my chambers. Mind you non of my ARs or my skills for that matter are for long distance shooting.
I personally would clean the begeez out of your rifle, get a good chamber brush and try again.
PS if your building a AR for accuracy then you must use accurate ammo, wolf is not.
 
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Try the Italian Love Lube next time. It will let you clear jams much faster.

Sent from the Hyundai of the droids, the Samsung Replenish, using Tapatalk.
 
Alright, this thread is full of misconceptions.

andy t said:
Steel cased ammo is best used in 5.56 chambered rifles. Do you know what chamber the White Oak bbl is using?
flintoid, shit happens regardless of the price of rifle or even the ammo you use. That's why malfunction clearance is part of firearms training.
Click to expand...

You can't clear these stuck cases easily. I've had to whack the rod with a hammer repeatedly to get them out.

atilla said:
i'll take it when you're done. [wink]

gotta watch out for that lacquer stuff, i've run wolf ammo, and i've seen friends run it with no issues. ARs are definitely picky beasts. not sure how but i ended up with a few boxes of core-lokt .223 and my rifle would jam up every round. the core-lokt rounds were JSPs and the soft lead would hit the feed ramp and then the bolt would close on the cartridge. bad juju. worked OK in drgrant's rifle so he shot the ammo for me.
Click to expand...

It's not the lacquered ammo that's the problem. In fact, I never had a problem with the old lacquered ammo.

andy t said:
From my understanding headspace issues are not often seen in ARs. If they do surface, it tends to be catastrophic. I did buy a USGI field headspace gauge that I use when mating a used bolt with a new/used bbl. I have never had the bolt fail the gauge test yet.
The chamber is a much bigger concern on ARs. Especially when shooting steel case ammo. Read this before running steel cased ammo.
Unless a rifle is from a known good manufacturer, the markings on the bbl are suspect. The only way to really determine what kind of chamber you have it so either:
take a cast and measure it
or
Run a 5.56 reamer down the chamber to see if any material comes out.
I also match the ammo with the purpose of a rifle. I see no point in running steel case out of Wylde chambered, precision AR at a distance (>100 meters) when shooting for groups. However, I use steel cased exclusively when training with carbines from 0-200 yards. I even get hits at 300 when I do my part.
Over two training classes with rigorous firing schedule, I had one stuck case in a class that I had to mortar my rifle to clear. Other than that, knock on wood, it has been running "straight hot and normal".
Click to expand...

I have two Model 1s, a Yankee Hill, and a brand new Colt that are all having the same issues with Wolf/Tula ammo. My friend was having the same problems with his SBR (forgot which high-end barrel he's using) and I also assisted another shooter with his Stag that was having the same issue. It's not the individual guns - in fact I only have one rifle that will shoot the stuff reliably now. And one of the Model 1s never had problems before the past year or so - it ate Wolf and asked more more.

chinalfr said:
NOoooooo!!!!!!

You're feeding your 2k rifle with crappy ammo. Crank up the wallet and get some good, quality ammo. No wolf, ultramax reload please.

i.e. you don't fill up your bentley/ferrari/porsche with regular unleaded.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. And yes, you can fill up a high-end car with regular unleaded.

Supermoto said:
Why spend the money on better ammo when you are not going to see the benefit. Short range matches and practice, I burn through Tula, leaving the handloads for when accuracy matter. If your rifle will not run Tula, then there is something wrong with it.
Click to expand...

Again, I've got multiple rifles having problems with the Tula, from a variety of manufacturers.

mac1911 said:
im going to go out on a limb...........
Did you clean the upper I MEAN REALLY CLEAN IT. before assembly and test fire. I am no expert on ARs. but have put together 6 in the last 2 years. All the parts and uppers I recieved where in my eyes,,,frign DIRTY from a sticky anti corrosion type of film to metal bits left over from machine work right out of the box. New guns and parts are not clean. Also most anti corrosion crap they put on is not a lube.
From my youth.....my dad always told me after I cleaned any of my guns, clean it again.
Now Im not one for strict cleaning. I do a quick wipe,bore snake and light lube after a range trip with my ARs. I have a franken built parts sourced from everywhere AR it has eaten nothing but wolf the new stuff and old greenish laquer stuff going on 2k plus rounds now. I have been lucky and only run into bad magazines and some dead primers. yet to have any wolf jam in my chambers. Mind you non of my ARs or my skills for that matter are for long distance shooting.
I personally would clean the begeez out of your rifle, get a good chamber brush and try again.
PS if your building a AR for accuracy then you must use accurate ammo, wolf is not.
Click to expand...

I ran the friggin' chamber brush through with my 19.2V cordless drill. The chamber is clean.




I therefore suggest that there are lots of bad batches of Wolf and Tula ammo out there, which points to poor QC and poor consistency between lots. Again, I've had lots of Wolf that ran through my rifles without a problem and then I've had a recent lot of Wolf that turn my rifles into single-shots. I'm hopeful that it's just this particular batch that I have right now. The Tula is worse. Much worse.

I'm probably going to order some of the Wolf military classic stuff, I'd never had problems with that, just the black box stuff. I'm probably going to run the Tula through my old A1 upper as that upper seems to eat anything. My local store sells PMC X-Tac 62gr green tip and PMC 55gr Bronze for $.30/rd so I've been shooting a lot of that lately.
 
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I agree with supermoto here. If it won't shoot Tula something is wrong with it. Running a chamber reamer willy nilly down a rifle with chrome lining will ruin it.
 
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Using a chamber reamer on a chrome barrel will remove some chrome thats about it. Its a common fix for AR's that have chambers not in spec. When I was at Colts armores classs last year several people in the class had non Colt guns with tight chambers. All were fixed using a chamber reamer. The one we used was made by Michiguns. Ned Christianson. YMMV
 
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