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AR-15 Failure to Feed
- Thread starter Shawnyc
- Start date
E.Stoner
NES Member
That's quite a process.
I am not a big fan of abusing firearms or any mechanical device your life might rely on, nor am I advising you "never clean your gun" but it's been well documented that as many guns have been damaged by not cleaning/lubing as have been "over-cleaned". Military indoctrinated white-glove-inspection-driven cleaning practices has destroyed 100x more perfectly good rifles than the Australian/British government. The practice is so destructive that that Bloomturd and Everytown recommends fully stripping and cleaning every speck of carbon and fouling after shooting exactly 50 rounds per week.
I am joking but I shoot enough to realize cleaning is severely over rated, but if you like it, you do you.
IMHO, if you really serious about your carry/fighting weapons, you'll have one for "use" and one for practice (that gets dirty), and another one just in case something happens to the first two. The one you will carry or the grab in the middle of the night should be clean and properly lubricated but also hasn't been stripped/shot/cleaned a million times.
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Agree totally.
I'm not into "white glove" cleaning, I keep the moving parts clean and lubed and try to preserve the crown by not scraping a cleaning rod against it. I keep a bore snake in every gun case and in every compartment type handgrip.
I've had signs of things like gas port erosion prior to any sign of moving part wear, but generally my idea is since I clean immediately after every use they never get dirty to the point where I need to go further than plastic bristles, excepting the bolt that does get steel brushing due to deposits that do bake there. Usually the barrel just takes spraying out and a few oil patches, occasionally I tetra the chamber, very rarely does the barrel see a brush. In short though mostly I am able to use solvents, kinda like how my dentist cleans my teeth 3 to 4x a year, makes the individual cleanings way easier.
But ya I am a little OCD but if you went through my safes everything GTG, pride of ownership, gives me the warm fuzzies anyway. I own enough guns I kinda circle around, most of my guns only leave the safe 4 days a year, I pull them out, add a little lube, go shoot, maybe play with that one a few weeks in a row and then I get into something else - partly I guess for me its ocd but partly just because otherwise I would lose track of status if I didn't stay on top of them, never know when something rides the bench for a year and I want it good to go when it comes out.
But ya I am a little OCD but if you went through my safes everything GTG, pride of ownership, gives me the warm fuzzies anyway. I own enough guns I kinda circle around, most of my guns only leave the safe 4 days a year, I pull them out, add a little lube, go shoot, maybe play with that one a few weeks in a row and then I get into something else - partly I guess for me its ocd but partly just because otherwise I would lose track of status if I didn't stay on top of them, never know when something rides the bench for a year and I want it good to go when it comes out.
chris_1001
NES Member
I used to clean my guns after every range trip.
Now that I’m older and shoot way more and have way more. There is no way I could keep up.
I only clean my carry gun after each shoot. The others go 3-4 trips between cleaning.
Even my competition guns go a few matches between cleanings. I’m just not that anal anymore.
Now that I’m older and shoot way more and have way more. There is no way I could keep up.
I only clean my carry gun after each shoot. The others go 3-4 trips between cleaning.
Even my competition guns go a few matches between cleanings. I’m just not that anal anymore.
citoriguy
NES Member
There are different types of cleaning too. Every gun gets at least wiped down after each trip. Heavy duty/detailed cleaning is based on usage, though I will admit I like breaking guns down and cleaning every corner of them. From a time perspective, however, it’s just not practical.
3 or 4 trips is pretty reasonable, just not sure I could keep track of that. Sooner or later I'd have 20 guns in various unknown conditions. Last weekend it was ARs in .308 and 5.56, a .40 pistol.. tomorrow I'm picking up a repaired .45 from Sig - you know that is coming out this weekend and was just handling a mini 30 thinking that I forgot how cool that one was, so maybe it comes out too etc etc.
Maybe some day I'll settle down to the same few guns for a couple months and can nix the obsessive cleaning.
Artie
NES Member
For me, different guns get different cleaning schedules. If shooting cast and/or dirty reloads, get cleaned immediately after range trip. SKS, even with dirty Russian ammo, can wait multiple trips. AR15 gets cleaned immediately when running my CMMG conversion but when running .223/5.56, it can wait multiple trips. Side note on 22lr conversion in AR15, was told somewhere here that after a range trip of shooting 22lr, you should remove the conversion and run some 223/556 to blow out the gas system. I find that I usually clean my 22lr guns after a range trip just due to shooting cheap and dirty ammo.
UPDATE: Took the AR out today. First 5 mags or so I had one failure to feed. After that it repeatedly failed to lock the bolt back on the last round. I loaded 6 mags with one round each, failed every time. Slapped a milspec BCG into the same AR, ran like a top. Swapped back to the Fail Zero BCG, same issue. While it ran better, and the FTF were less frequent, it still fails to hold the bolt back on the last round. I'm confident there is an issue with the BCG. Should I reach out to Fail Zero or to Primary Arms which is where I purchased it from?
i would contact fail zero, which apparently is not zero fail. they should pay shipping and if not then i would try to return it to PA. my guess is that fail zero will take care of you, though i have no experience with their products
before you ship it off though take a close look at the gas key and gas rings. there may be an issue with the gas seal. when you hand cycle it does it feel OK? if there's no binding or issue hand cycling then i'm guessing there's an issue within the gas key or rings. i had a defective BCG from BCM (the gas key was bent). they paid shipping and replaced it. that BCG couldn't even go into battery due to the gas key being out of alignment with gas tube.
before you ship it off though take a close look at the gas key and gas rings. there may be an issue with the gas seal. when you hand cycle it does it feel OK? if there's no binding or issue hand cycling then i'm guessing there's an issue within the gas key or rings. i had a defective BCG from BCM (the gas key was bent). they paid shipping and replaced it. that BCG couldn't even go into battery due to the gas key being out of alignment with gas tube.
I'm fairly certain that FailZero has blind people staking the gas keys and that may be the cause of your issues.
Failure to hold the bolt open on last round can be a few different things.
First, I'd check to see if the bolt catch moves freely and doesn't have excessive spring tension. It should not bind at all.
Second, with an empty mag inserted fully, pull the charging handle back and see if the bolt stays to the rear by the mag follower activating the bolt catch, if it doesn't, you might have weak mag springs that can't push the follower up high enough or fast enough to engage the bolt latch
Third, Use good ammo for break in of a new rifle.
Fourth, Lube the rifle wet.
Fail Zero is sending me a new BCG. They said mine had a gas key that was gauged too tight, and they seen some leakage underneath. Should be getting the replacement in a few days and I'll run it hard.
Didn't mention any scraping in what you quoted. The only thing I occasionally work hard on are deposits that form at the bottom of the cone where the bolt rides on the carrier. A little tetra soaking and a chamber brush takes most of it away, followed by a little picking here and there to chip off what's left..
Like I said, I clean my guns after every use usually, they are never very dirty to begin with.
Just wondering, I dont "clean" my AR I use for cmp/NRA for the season. Which is not much 500 rounds. i only get out to NRA service rifle a few times a year. Any mess in the gas system wipes right off.
I generally shoot 250 rifle rounds on a Sunday. The black residue you wipe off the outside of the carrier is as present in places you can't see, and bakes itself onto some areas of the bolt, not to mention it's not really great to leave a dirty barrel sitting as such for months.
Functionally as far as running rounds it takes a lot to make a good AR fail as mentioned. But if they are going to get stored and potentially forgotten about for months I prefer to not even be able to detect the presence of anything other than nearly clean oil, ie if you went around the nooks and crannies of my guns with a q tip you could find a bit of powder in some by a tint here and there but nothing black. A swipe down the barrel would produce a clean patch. Anal, yes, but it really is not hard to accomplish if you clean every shoot and are setup to do it efficiently (for instance on my gun bench there is a container of kerosene with a big screw top large enough to submerge an AR10 bolt carrier).
i run a wet patch , few dry patches then a rust preventive wet patch down the bores each outing.
i only apply enough oil for rust prevention on the metal parts as needed . i have a "rag" thats pretty muc h pre oil ed after years of use.
Even my steel only diet AR takes for ever to get carbon caked on.
Between Thanks giving and new years my rifles get a yearly clean and inspect.
A serious question that's slightly off topic.
Is there a benefit to having an AR with 22 conversion over a Ruger 10/22 with an AR style stock? It would seem less problematic to just shoot a 10/22.
Is there a benefit to having an AR with 22 conversion over a Ruger 10/22 with an AR style stock? It would seem less problematic to just shoot a 10/22.
An M&P 15-22 is a better solution IMHO, much lighter than an AR, built around the concept of a sporting .22lr versus adapted from something intended to be a 5.56 rifle.. the factory 25 round mags are absolutely outstanding - extremely easy and quick to load by hand and reliable. They also make a performance center version with a couple inches more of barrel, intended to be accuratized.
Everyone ought to own a 10-22, they are obviously great guns, but are not particularly comfortable shooters compared to the S&W. Are no more or less accurate either, comparing standard models of each. The mags are a pain to load, though the rifles being all steel (or stainless) are of higher quality IMHO.
My only gripe with the S&W is like other things they do they just had to mess with stuff. I wish they would've started with a polymer mil-spec dimensioned lower and upper, then put their .22lr parts around it, would've been just as light that way but also would've had greater interchangeability. Doesn't really make a difference, just always felt it was silly they worked so hard to put holes in different spots and to re-dimension things ever so slightly, all for no benefit.
Everyone ought to own a 10-22, they are obviously great guns, but are not particularly comfortable shooters compared to the S&W. Are no more or less accurate either, comparing standard models of each. The mags are a pain to load, though the rifles being all steel (or stainless) are of higher quality IMHO.
My only gripe with the S&W is like other things they do they just had to mess with stuff. I wish they would've started with a polymer mil-spec dimensioned lower and upper, then put their .22lr parts around it, would've been just as light that way but also would've had greater interchangeability. Doesn't really make a difference, just always felt it was silly they worked so hard to put holes in different spots and to re-dimension things ever so slightly, all for no benefit.
So I was finally able to get out to the range today with the replacement BCG. Ran about 200 rounds through it, most mags only having a few rounds apiece. Everything worked flawlessly, no failures, and bolt locked back every time. Chalk the original one's issues up to FailZero's QC, but their customer service is top notch.
First the 10-22 is never a bad choice.
Second the M&P 15-22 may or maynot have a safety issue but you can’t use it at an Appleseed shoot. Read up and figure that one out yourself. I’d go with 10-22 before 15-22.
There are two ways to do an AR 22 conversion. One way is to simply replace AR bcg with .22 adapter. The twist rate of an AR barrel is not correct to get high level ofaccuracy out of .22 ammo but plenty of fun for plinking. The other way is to build or buy a dedicated .22 upper for the AR. There are other threads on that already. A dedicated .22 upper is more expensive than buying a 10-22. However you get very good accuracy and you are practicing the same movements as with AR in usage.
I have both 10-22 and dedicated .22 upper for AR. I shoot the dedicated upper a lot more. When I have newbies or youngsters on range fun shoot everyone likes the AR with dedicated upper the most. Low recoil and report and high cool factor. In fact I built a second dedicated.22 upper that I use with preban lower with adjustable stock for kids.
Personally I shoot AR with dedicated upper a lot. I can do a lot of positional practice ( shooting prone, sitting, standing) while doing mag changes and practicing shooting various position with cheap .22 that translate to better center fire scores.
