AR pistol @ night (MA)?

pupchow

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I've got a virgin lower receiver collecting dust, and a recent thread got me to thinking about a 9mm AR pistol build. There's a company selling inserts for pmags, which allows the feeding of 9mm from an AR lower, without the need for any other mods or adapter. And if the pistol is constructed using a non-detachable magazine configuration, the AWB restrictions would not apply.

So, virgin lower with fixed 9mm pmag, and a pistol brace. And an 11" 9mm upper with bipod. Any problems with this plan?
 
I've got a virgin lower receiver collecting dust, and a recent thread got me to thinking about a 9mm AR pistol build. There's a company selling inserts for pmags, which allows the feeding of 9mm from an AR lower, without the need for any other mods or adapter. And if the pistol is constructed using a non-detachable magazine configuration, the AWB restrictions would not apply.

So, virgin lower with fixed 9mm pmag, and a pistol brace. And an 11" 9mm upper with bipod. Any problems with this plan?

This?

Mean Arms EndoMag: Convert Your AR Lower to 9mm With This Magazine Insert | The Loadout Room

I don't know anything about hunting in MA, but this 9mm conversion mag look pretty cool, it almost makes 9mm AR's not totally gay.
 
This?

Mean Arms EndoMag: Convert Your AR Lower to 9mm With This Magazine Insert | The Loadout Room

I don't know anything about hunting in MA, but this 9mm conversion mag look pretty cool, it almost makes 9mm AR's not totally gay.

Yep, that's it. One issue that's been reported with them is a problem with extraction if there's any upward pressure on the magazine. The insert fits two versions of pmags, and the later version of pmag is supposed to have a "shelf" to prevent the magazine from inserting beyond its engagement point. So, not sure if the issues happen with both types of mags.

The EndoMag insert includes a round limiter, which can be trimmed down to alter capacity. My being limited to 10rds in MA, I'd rather a 20rd mag than a 30. I'm going look into the possibility of that configuration, since there should be plenty of room for the spring if I'm only using half the capacity.

I'm also wanting to find data on the accuracy of these 9mm uppers. If grouping isn't satisfactory to extend my range beyond 40 yards, it wouldn't be very valuable for night hunting (in MA, pistols restricted to those chambered no larger than .38). It'd still be delivering a lot more energy than the ridiculous .22LR from a rifle that I'm currently using, so that probably won't stop me from building one.
 
The issue i am seeing is the pmags....if i can be made to work with a preban mag...I guess your kinds sorta onto something, except for you can only use .22lr for night hunting in MA....so whats the point?
 
Mostly the no artificial light regulation... Go for it. I hope you get some. [thumbsup]

The issue i am seeing is the pmags....if i can be made to work with a preban mag...I guess your kinds sorta onto something, except for you can only use .22lr for night hunting in MA....so whats the point?

From the mass 2018 hunting rags

Artificial lights for hunting any bird or mammal except raccoon and opossum

Rifles chambered to take ammunition larger than .22 caliber long rifle, and pistols and revolvers chambered to
take ammunition larger than .38 caliber, between the hours of 1⁄2 hour after sunset and 1⁄2 hour before sunrise

9mm = 0.3543307 inch

That's if you're planning on hunting. I think we're talking about a pistol here

Forgot to put the. I knew the grammar police would be in soon.
 
While technically i think your right...in the lawlass land of MA i dont think it would fly if you ever had to explain it. Pistol braces will go the way of bumpstocks for sure sooner or later

I think it was the pistol vs rifle hunting regs that consfused me..

I never thought to put a laser on a pistol and night hunt....i guess im going to start carrying my .357 or p226 9mm when i dawn my nightvision setups. I guess i just found a use for my spare IR laser.


The pmags are still an issue though ...permently attaching pmag doesnt make the mag any less illegal...

Im not trying to be negitive...there are just more laws than i can remember.
 
WRT magazine capacity. The mag capacity will be 10rd, and it'll be a fixed magazine. There's a shop selling the pmags with the endomag insert installed, permanently configured for 10rd capacity. Not an issue. Using a preban mag has no bearing, since it will be a fixed mag.

ETA. Here's a discussion on AR pistols in MA
AR pistol with fixed Mag? (In mass )
 
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I may be missing an obvious point. But how would you make this mag “perminanry fixed” to the lower. And how would you reload?

I’ve seen some mags for .223 that open up and allow reloading of the mag while it’s still in the lower.
 
For a post 94 AR receiver to be built into anything with AWB features, it has to be originally manufactured as a fixed magazine, which then by statute removes it from the AWB category. IE....can not modify it after the fact. This is according to Healey's enforcement notice. It specifically states that it can not be modified to be made compliant, which includes preventing it from accepting a detachable magazine. This is precisely why I manufacture my receivers on a CNC machine in my shop, and mark them as FMG (Fixed Magazine Gun).
 
I may be missing an obvious point. But how would you make this mag “perminanry fixed” to the lower. And how would you reload?

I’ve seen some mags for .223 that open up and allow reloading of the mag while it’s still in the lower.

Key MGL language is this part: "(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine"

There's at least one magazine locking device on the market, which enables removal of the magazine after you've separated the upper from the lower. At that point it would have "an ability to accept a detachable magazine." So no-go with that type.

There are other magazine locking devices on the market which render the magazine non-detachable, which then prevents the firearm from being able to "accept a detachable magazine."

With the Endomag locked in place with a magazine lock, it is then integral. Pivoting the upper away from the lower gains you access to the now integral feeding device, which you can now top off as you would with any other integral feeding device.

The Endomag and the side-charging 9mm pistol upper available from FM Products fit and function well together. And the forward side-charging handle of the upper makes it a very easy to unload/clear the firearm, vs. a standard AR charging handle.
 
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While technically i think your right...in the lawlass land of MA i dont think it would fly if you ever had to explain it. Pistol braces will go the way of bumpstocks for sure sooner or later

I think it was the pistol vs rifle hunting regs that consfused me..

I never thought to put a laser on a pistol and night hunt....i guess im going to start carrying my .357 or p226 9mm when i dawn my nightvision setups. I guess i just found a use for my spare IR laser.


The pmags are still an issue though ...permently attaching pmag doesnt make the mag any less illegal...

Im not trying to be negitive...there are just more laws than i can remember.

IR is considered by this lovely state as artificial, so its a no go at night. Would have to be thermal, or a nightvision set up that doesnt rely on IR. and 357 is "over 38 special" so thats a no go at night also. (it is below 38 caliber, we all know that, the way they enforce it, they treat it as 38 special - i know its fu(ked up but it is Mass after all)
 
The only saving grace is with the gen3+ stuff I find the Ir illuminators are pretty much unnecessary....

Also remember we’re talking about hunting regs...for pest control you can use any caliber or light you want any time of day or night.
 
Yep, that's it. One issue that's been reported with them is a problem with extraction if there's any upward pressure on the magazine. The insert fits two versions of pmags, and the later version of pmag is supposed to have a "shelf" to prevent the magazine from inserting beyond its engagement point. So, not sure if the issues happen with both types of mags.

The EndoMag insert includes a round limiter, which can be trimmed down to alter capacity. My being limited to 10rds in MA, I'd rather a 20rd mag than a 30. I'm going look into the possibility of that configuration, since there should be plenty of room for the spring if I'm only using half the capacity.

I'm also wanting to find data on the accuracy of these 9mm uppers. If grouping isn't satisfactory to extend my range beyond 40 yards, it wouldn't be very valuable for night hunting (in MA, pistols restricted to those chambered no larger than .38). It'd still be delivering a lot more energy than the ridiculous .22LR from a rifle that I'm currently using, so that probably won't stop me from building one.
I was hoping to do the same - Endomag a 20 round pmag limited to 10 rounds and make the mag fixed. Better looking setup.

Did you have success with this?

Is it compliant?
 
I was hoping to do the same - Endomag a 20 round pmag limited to 10 rounds and make the mag fixed. Better looking setup.

Did you have success with this?

Is it compliant?
I ended up using the fixed 30/10 Endomag. I'm using it with a tripod mount, so not much of an issue with clearance. I might revisit the 20/10 concept after this deer season.
 
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