Off the shelf or custom?
I’m going to take a minute to share my recent purchase experience with the NES crew because this type of information would have been immensely helpful for me to read prior to purchasing my first “made to order” firearm. If you are the type that can assemble an AR from 7 toothpicks, 1 LB of string cheese and some peanut butter, this piece will bore you-skip forward. If, however, you are considering your first AR or a similar purchase and you haven’t build one, or had one built for you, then this may be useful info.
I was in the market for an AR but I live in MA so I have onerous restrictions to deal with. You know what they are so I won’t repeat them. Right off, I knew I wanted something more than the MA-neutered basic Bushmaster (Sub DPMS, ect). After many months of considering every single component I soon realized that I was considering about a $1200-$1800 rifle, not the $1000 or so I had budgeted.
In the end the only stock rifle I really fell in love with was the Smith M&P 15T which lists at $1700 and FS has, occasionally, for about $1300. I wasn’t put off by the price of the Smith but I kept hearing that I would be “paying for the Smith name” and that “Stag would end up making most of the components.” Frankly, I wasn’t really bothered by that as the Smith was configured almost exactly the way I wanted it except that:
1. I would have had to replace the pinned (Hate’em) stock
2. I would have to replace the standard grip with an ergo grip
Here is the Smith and Wesson MP15TF (what’s the (F) for you ask? It’s for “fixed” as in fixed stock.
After adding those pieces, I’d be good to go.
After much deliberation, I was indeed about to go that route but, at the last minute, I talked to Dirty Pacman who had recently worked with John and had a glowing report. I feel strongly about “buying locally” (go ahead, call me a socialist, I have an advanced degree in economics so I’ll verbally beat you into the ground if you try it….kidding. Sort of.)
Anyway, I called up John in Springfield and he gave me a basic quote that was comparable to the MP. I didn’t jump on it right a way. I thought about it for a while and returned to John two months later to complete the deal. John repeatedly told me, “before you decide, pay me a visit and look at my shop. Handle some guns, let’s talk about your ideas.” Contrast that with most gun shops-FS aside.
I paid him a visit and he spent almost two hours with me, doing mock ups of different options and patiently answering my questions (oh, and looking at his “Flotter-like” collection.) I left, thought about it for a few hours and when I got home, I called him and said, “start building.”
Three weeks later I picked up my rifle from him. Here it is.
Now, for the meat of the story. The benefits of purchasing from a builder like John include the following. I list them because I wouldn’t have been aware of them prior to this purchase and I think the perspective might be useful to others in a similar position.
1. He introduced efficient options I hadn’t considered. For instance, he suggested, the fiber optic conversion on the front Yankee Hill BUIS. Short money-big difference.
2. I spend a total of 4 hours total talking with him. Can you get the attention of a sales person or a company rep for that long? I had each and every question, even unrelated, answered at length often with tangible examples in front of me.
3. While the internals are stock mil spec, John took the time to work many of them over on the machines, polishing and smoothing each piece. The results are substantial. I don’t think Smith will do that.
4. I had decided to go with a single stage trigger to save money thinking that I would buy a nice drop-in trigger in a month or two when funds replenished themselves. I guess the standard mil spec trigger must of offended his sensibilities as John, decided to tweak the trigger with a different spring set (among other things) and the result is the most phenomenal single stage trigger I’ve felt. When he gave it to me he was almost giddy…”you’ve got to try this trigger,” he said, and he was right.
5. I didn’t really know how I wanted to handle the end of the barrel. John showed me a large assortment of compensators (as well as a crowned barrel), which I was able to put onto the end of the barrel (mock up) to get a feel for looks before I made my decision.
6. John sent (emailed) me pictures of each piece as he completed them keeping me in the loop and excited about the rifle.
7. When I picked it up, we spend another hour or so reviewing different sight options.
8. When and if this rifle goes fubar, I’ll simply call John and bring it over. Smith, with great customer service, can’t be any easier.
9. The overall fit and finish on this rifle is superb. No play between the upper and lower, he even filled in the red and white safely switch for me.
10. The end result was about $100 more than the Smith. Even if you ignore all of the small fit and finish issues, the ACE stock and Ergo grips more than account for that.
My point is this. If you are already an AR expert who can put these together in your sleep then it is pointless to pay someone else do it. BUT:
1. if you are like me, a beginner to the world of ARs and you just want the rifle you’ve envisioned done right and on time,
2. If you would like a little bit of handholding along the way,
3. or even a great price on something you won’t take the time to do yourself,
I would encourage you to consider having your rifle made rather than buying it off the shelf. Now this is definitely not a knock on Smith or any other maker/model. I think they’re probably great guns. I simply wanted something no one else was making stock these days.
EDIT I forgot to mention one key aspect of the transaction. John doesn't sell complete rifles. He sells Uppers and Lowers. You will assemble (insert 2 pins) and complete/submit the FA-10 on your own. This is very simple. If you need further explanation call him. Or PM me and I will explain.
So....now you're wondering how it shoots? Well, I took it to the range yesterday with 2 boxes of 20 rounds each of:
Privi Partisan
Lake City 5.56
Remington Boat Tail
Federal
Brown Bear 62 grain JHP
Brown Bear 55 grain
Fiochi
American Eagle 5.56
Hornady
UMC 5.56
The result- 400 rounds, 10 types of ammo, steel, brass, cheap, expensive, 8 different mags (new and used) and not a single hiccup.
So that’s it. This is my hands down positive review of John and JDL sales. Please note that I am not being compensated in any way for this. No discounts (purchase was completed prior to this post) no payments, etc. I’m just happy with the work and I want to let others know that a custom rifle is only minimally more expensive than an off the rack model, and he will do small jobs too. I will probably visit him again when the 6.8 fever gets to be too much to handle.
I’m going to take a minute to share my recent purchase experience with the NES crew because this type of information would have been immensely helpful for me to read prior to purchasing my first “made to order” firearm. If you are the type that can assemble an AR from 7 toothpicks, 1 LB of string cheese and some peanut butter, this piece will bore you-skip forward. If, however, you are considering your first AR or a similar purchase and you haven’t build one, or had one built for you, then this may be useful info.
I was in the market for an AR but I live in MA so I have onerous restrictions to deal with. You know what they are so I won’t repeat them. Right off, I knew I wanted something more than the MA-neutered basic Bushmaster (Sub DPMS, ect). After many months of considering every single component I soon realized that I was considering about a $1200-$1800 rifle, not the $1000 or so I had budgeted.
In the end the only stock rifle I really fell in love with was the Smith M&P 15T which lists at $1700 and FS has, occasionally, for about $1300. I wasn’t put off by the price of the Smith but I kept hearing that I would be “paying for the Smith name” and that “Stag would end up making most of the components.” Frankly, I wasn’t really bothered by that as the Smith was configured almost exactly the way I wanted it except that:
1. I would have had to replace the pinned (Hate’em) stock
2. I would have to replace the standard grip with an ergo grip
Here is the Smith and Wesson MP15TF (what’s the (F) for you ask? It’s for “fixed” as in fixed stock.
After adding those pieces, I’d be good to go.
After much deliberation, I was indeed about to go that route but, at the last minute, I talked to Dirty Pacman who had recently worked with John and had a glowing report. I feel strongly about “buying locally” (go ahead, call me a socialist, I have an advanced degree in economics so I’ll verbally beat you into the ground if you try it….kidding. Sort of.)
Anyway, I called up John in Springfield and he gave me a basic quote that was comparable to the MP. I didn’t jump on it right a way. I thought about it for a while and returned to John two months later to complete the deal. John repeatedly told me, “before you decide, pay me a visit and look at my shop. Handle some guns, let’s talk about your ideas.” Contrast that with most gun shops-FS aside.
I paid him a visit and he spent almost two hours with me, doing mock ups of different options and patiently answering my questions (oh, and looking at his “Flotter-like” collection.) I left, thought about it for a few hours and when I got home, I called him and said, “start building.”
Three weeks later I picked up my rifle from him. Here it is.
Now, for the meat of the story. The benefits of purchasing from a builder like John include the following. I list them because I wouldn’t have been aware of them prior to this purchase and I think the perspective might be useful to others in a similar position.
1. He introduced efficient options I hadn’t considered. For instance, he suggested, the fiber optic conversion on the front Yankee Hill BUIS. Short money-big difference.
2. I spend a total of 4 hours total talking with him. Can you get the attention of a sales person or a company rep for that long? I had each and every question, even unrelated, answered at length often with tangible examples in front of me.
3. While the internals are stock mil spec, John took the time to work many of them over on the machines, polishing and smoothing each piece. The results are substantial. I don’t think Smith will do that.
4. I had decided to go with a single stage trigger to save money thinking that I would buy a nice drop-in trigger in a month or two when funds replenished themselves. I guess the standard mil spec trigger must of offended his sensibilities as John, decided to tweak the trigger with a different spring set (among other things) and the result is the most phenomenal single stage trigger I’ve felt. When he gave it to me he was almost giddy…”you’ve got to try this trigger,” he said, and he was right.
5. I didn’t really know how I wanted to handle the end of the barrel. John showed me a large assortment of compensators (as well as a crowned barrel), which I was able to put onto the end of the barrel (mock up) to get a feel for looks before I made my decision.
6. John sent (emailed) me pictures of each piece as he completed them keeping me in the loop and excited about the rifle.
7. When I picked it up, we spend another hour or so reviewing different sight options.
8. When and if this rifle goes fubar, I’ll simply call John and bring it over. Smith, with great customer service, can’t be any easier.
9. The overall fit and finish on this rifle is superb. No play between the upper and lower, he even filled in the red and white safely switch for me.
10. The end result was about $100 more than the Smith. Even if you ignore all of the small fit and finish issues, the ACE stock and Ergo grips more than account for that.
My point is this. If you are already an AR expert who can put these together in your sleep then it is pointless to pay someone else do it. BUT:
1. if you are like me, a beginner to the world of ARs and you just want the rifle you’ve envisioned done right and on time,
2. If you would like a little bit of handholding along the way,
3. or even a great price on something you won’t take the time to do yourself,
I would encourage you to consider having your rifle made rather than buying it off the shelf. Now this is definitely not a knock on Smith or any other maker/model. I think they’re probably great guns. I simply wanted something no one else was making stock these days.
EDIT I forgot to mention one key aspect of the transaction. John doesn't sell complete rifles. He sells Uppers and Lowers. You will assemble (insert 2 pins) and complete/submit the FA-10 on your own. This is very simple. If you need further explanation call him. Or PM me and I will explain.
So....now you're wondering how it shoots? Well, I took it to the range yesterday with 2 boxes of 20 rounds each of:
Privi Partisan
Lake City 5.56
Remington Boat Tail
Federal
Brown Bear 62 grain JHP
Brown Bear 55 grain
Fiochi
American Eagle 5.56
Hornady
UMC 5.56
The result- 400 rounds, 10 types of ammo, steel, brass, cheap, expensive, 8 different mags (new and used) and not a single hiccup.
So that’s it. This is my hands down positive review of John and JDL sales. Please note that I am not being compensated in any way for this. No discounts (purchase was completed prior to this post) no payments, etc. I’m just happy with the work and I want to let others know that a custom rifle is only minimally more expensive than an off the rack model, and he will do small jobs too. I will probably visit him again when the 6.8 fever gets to be too much to handle.
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