Are ASP Baton Legal or not in Mass

I dont believe theyre illegal to possess in your home, but im sure many towns and maybe the state as a whole has a law against carrying them, ive never seen them for sale here except maybe at a gunshow.
 
What Tater and Atmay said...

So keep it at home... And i have a brand new ASP 16" Airweight I'd be willing to sell... And a Casco expanding one...

Leftovers from when I was a dealer...
 
under the dangerous weapons law, they are a felony to posess on your person, or under your control in a vehicle, if [strike]amd only if charged + convicted of disturbing the peace[/strike] arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace.

FIFY. Conviction is not required, an arrest under either condition is sufficient to be charged under MGL 269-10(b).
 
Despite the SJC's ruling, this is one of those things that's not likely to be on firm ground. The previous NES thread on the subject is here.

First, I have a feeling that few, if any, LEOs you're likely to encounter are aware of this ruling and can appreciate the subtle difference between an expandable baton and a blackjack.

Second, absent anything 269-10 related, they'll charge you, or threaten to charge you, with some other contempt of copy type crime. Either way, at the very least, they're going to take your property and resist giving it back.
 
FIFY. Conviction is not required, an arrest under either condition is sufficient to be charged under MGL 269-10(b).

Wait....what?

I really shouldn't be surprised, but that's just f--king mind boggling. Just being arrested for allegedly committing a crime while carrying a baton if a felony? WHAT?! THE?! ****?!
 
Wait....what?

I really shouldn't be surprised, but that's just f--king mind boggling. Just being arrested for allegedly committing a crime while carrying a baton if a felony? WHAT?! THE?! ****?!

Yes, the arrest is sufficient to be charged, but to clarify...

If the arrestee has no prior felony convictions, it's a misdemeanor charge, but with a potential sentence of 2.5 years incarceration it renders one a prohibited person.

If the arrestee has prior felony convictions, it's a felony charge, with a potential sentence of 5 years incarceration.
 
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Yes, the arrest is sufficient to be charged, but to clarify...

If the arrestee has no prior felony convictions, it's a misdemeanor charge, but with a potential sentence of 2.5 years incarceration it renders one a prohibited person.

If the arrestee has prior felony convictions, it's a felony charge, with a potential sentence of 5 years incarceration.

After I saw your other post, I went and read the law again, and my mind is boggled.

Like, how does that work? Being alleged to have committed a crime is a crime in and of itself?
 
IANAL, but...

The way the statute is worded, the arrest is what triggers the charge under 269-10(b).

The eventual disposition (convicted/acquitted/dismissed) of the charges for which the arrest was made does not generally make the arrest itself unlawful.

It seems the arrest would need to be deemed unlawful to negate the charge under 269-10(b).
 
IME, blackjack in LE has traditionally been used to refer to a leather-wraped spring with a hunk of lead on the end. Nothing more. This mostly comes from the older cops in the twilights of their careers who were given orginally-issued blackjacks by the WWII generation cops as they retired off the job in the late 70's and early 80's.

That's not to say Kevlar's posts aren't valid, but I've never heard of someone trying to prosecute carrying of an ASP under the DW Per Se statute as the functional equivilent of a blackjack.
 
IME, blackjack in LE has traditionally been used to refer to a leather-wraped spring with a hunk of lead on the end. Nothing more. This mostly comes from the older cops in the twilights of their careers who were given orginally-issued blackjacks by the WWII generation cops as they retired off the job in the late 70's and early 80's.

That's not to say Kevlar's posts aren't valid, but I've never heard of someone trying to prosecute carrying of an ASP under the DW Per Se statute as the functional equivilent of a blackjack.

And if there was a trial on this, the state would be forced to prove every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, including the breach or disturbance of the public peace. The problem is, that is a very easy thing to prove if you are in public and there is any sort of confrontation.

BTW: These devices are very likely covered under the second amendment BTW.
 
Think about it this way, what more responsibility would you need to exercise with an ASP under the law than with a handgun? They are perfectly legal to carry, just know the use of force laws and you are GTG. Understand though that not all cops are up on their law - I have dealt with 269 sec 10 in the court system, cops, DA's have no idea how to charge it. That does not make it illegal to carry.
 
I got in trouble for having a baton in my vehicle back in the mid 90s. So I now carry a sport axe because I like to go camping.
 
I got in trouble for having a baton in my vehicle back in the mid 90s. So I now carry a sport axe because I like to go camping.

+1

unless you live in Chelsea or another MS13 infested town, you should keep one handy. [rofl] [rofl]


[thinking]
 
If a baton is used for protection Let say someone or a group try to mug you or attack you and u use the baton to protect yourself and hit someone and brake their skull or seriously injure them ( broken bones and such) can us still face consequence under the dangerous weapon law from MGL? or does the Legitimate defense doctrine supersede that??

Would it matter if the Baton was used in a Public place ( street) or Private ( Parking Lot or Garage)

+1

unless you live in Chelsea or another MS13 infested town, you should keep one handy. [rofl] [rofl]


[thinking]
 
If it was legitimate self defense, under the law, you should not have an issue. However, remember who you are dealing with. Private or public should not matter. However remember that often when a self defense situation happens, you may be detained or arrested while the police sort things out.
 
You're not supposed to defend yourself....it's too much like self-help.

I'd say that if you do get into a dust-up, unless there's an iron-clad witness that "the other guy started it" you're in for some fun.

Consider this: You can legally carry a hi-cap nine in boston, but a 4-inch knife is illegal.

With f**ked up stuff like that, legal or not, your worse than Hitler for having such an item. [rolleyes]
 
ooh something I actually know a little bit about

Expandable batons (eg: ASP) are legal to buy own and carry. They sell them at the barracks store on Mass ave across the street from Berklee College, no special license required to sell or buy or anything of the sort. 100% legal, despite popular misconception.

An expandable baton can be a suitable defense weapon. However, you will find yourself facing dangerous weapon charges if 1) You are arrested on a warrant while in possession of said baton 2) You are arrested during a breach of peace while in possession of said baton. Bashing in the skull of your attacker may or may not qualify as a BOP, there is some gray area, it really depends on the LEO that responds to your situation... SO:

Do not use unless you are VERY certain that a LEO responding to your situation will sympathize with your use of self defense. There is a duty to flee in MA (and I think many other places). If it is safe to flee, it is safe to assume that deploying your baton is a bad idea. If it is unsafe to flee, you have a duty to defend yourself without escalating the amount of force. If you have a reasonable fear that serious bodily harm or death is imminent, escalating force (drawing a weapon) may not necessarily be considered an escalation of force for all intents and purposes of this scenario. SO... rule of thumb: As with any weapon, an expandable baton should only be drawn if equal or greater force is attempted first by the attacker, or serious bodily harm/death is UNARGUABLY imminent.

If you are arrested for beating someone with an expandable baton: You might be able to lawyer yourself out of assault and battery type charges, but you would have to somehow prove the arrest was invalid in order to avoid the dangerous weapons charge. That charge is automatic upon being arrested under one of the two conditions mentioned above. BS, I know.
 
IME, blackjack in LE has traditionally been used to refer to a leather-wraped spring with a hunk of lead on the end. Nothing more. This mostly comes from the older cops in the twilights of their careers who were given orginally-issued blackjacks by the WWII generation cops as they retired off the job in the late 70's and early 80's.
.

I still have my Dad's "Iron Claw" and "sap" from his cop days. Some day I will move it from MA to NH just to be safe.

Ever see those expandable prop rods body men and mechanics use?
 
For what it's worth, I have a little first hand experience with ASP and other batons and they are not very effective weapons. I watched a skinny kid take about 3-4 direct shots to the head with an ASP and keep on fighting like it was nothing more than a bitchslap. He was in some pain afterwards, but at the time it had little effect.

For something to keep in the car, get a 4 or 6 cell Maglite or a bat. You may be questioned about the bat if stopped, but it's not illegal and of course you don't have to answer any questions.
 
Tire Checker
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I think I've got this right.

It comes down to MGL c269 s10b, which contains

"... whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a), shall be punished by imprisonment ..."

It appears that if you're carrying an ASP, a LEO can make it a felony by arresting you for disturbing the peace.

ETA: I missed hotpastrami's post, which covered all of this.
EATA: Even the first offense has a 2.5 year possible sentence, so this is a lifetime DQ.

Google site:northeastshooters.com asp baton illegal for a list of previous threads.
 
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