At what point do you take a defensive stance when someone approaches you in your car?

tinhorn

NES Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,994
Likes
4,009
Location
SE MA
Feedback: 11 / 0 / 0
Maybe I've been watching too many self-defense videos but I can't dance and it's too hot to plow. I've been thinking about a couple local incidents.

The first incident happened a few years ago but the guy defending himself was accused of first degree murder, and although acquitted, had his life messed up for two years during which time his wife died. They wouldn't let him out of jail to see her.

Amabile argued that Robbins acted in defense, noting that he is 65-years old, and Roux was in his thirties, and weighed well over 200 pounds. He added that Robbins never got out of his truck during the altercation.

In the defense’s version of events, the dash-cam footage showed that Roux was unhappy with Robbins’ slow driving on Main Street in Wareham.

Amabile said Roux veered right, trapping Robbins’ pickup truck against the curb. Roux then got out of the vehicle, Amabile said, and approached Robbins’ driver’s side window. Roux was yelling and threatening to kill Robbins, Amabile said, noting that the threats were audible on the dash-cam video.

During the altercation, Amabile said Robbins stabbed Roux once under his armpit. The location of the single wound was “consistent with him flailing in the window, and carrying through on his threat to kill the occupant of the pickup truck” Amabile said.

After he was stabbed, Roux attempted to drive himself to Tobey Hospital but collided with a sidewalk bump-out. He succumbed to his injuries several days later at a Boston hospital.

In the prosecution’s version of events, Roux only became agitated only after Robbins escalated the conflict. First, Buckingham said Roux was forced to stop short when Robbins slammed on his breaks and then Robbins “gave him the middle finger.”

Buckingham also argued that Robbins’ truck was not trapped against the curb; she said “there might have been a brush against a car to leave” but noted that Robbins had the ability to leave the situation.

Buckingham said there was no evidence Roux had a weapon when he approached Robbins’ truck, though he was audibly angry. The prosecution did not suggest Robbins exited his vehicle, but theorized that Robbins inflicted the wound that ultimately killed Roux through the open driver’s side window.

I personally found it interesting that even though Roux was 33 years old, the only picture our local paper ever printed appears to be a youthful school photo.

And recently I read about this lawsuit because of hurt feelings and civil rights. No criminal charges but there are some interesting parallels in the initial provocation (macroaggression?)

According to the complaint filed in Plymouth Superior Court on Thursday, Keri Hendricks was sitting in her car with her 7-year-old daughter in the backseat waiting for her son to come out of the store Sunday afternoon....Hendricks was stopped in the middle of the parking lot’s driving lane heading toward [Stop & Shop]....

After about 30-45 seconds, Tim Newman rolled down his window and yelled “Go” at Hendricks, he said in an interview.

Hendricks, who is Black, then stepped out of her car and approached the truck, Newman said.

When she approached the Newmans’ car, which also had the Newmans’ three children in the back, Tim Newman said he didn’t know what to expect.

A tense altercation ensued....

Well, of course it would.

Now it appears that both of these dramas could have been avoided had Whitey just kept his mouth shut and maintained the proper attitude of timidity and deference to hostile people. But they didn't, and despite my best efforts, I don't always do so, either. I'm interested in hearing opinions from you armchair philosophers.

Where's the balancing point?


Btw, I copied and pasted bits and pieces:
 
You will lose this legal battle 99% of the time. Just keep driving and if if things start to escalate, call 911.

Also, never let yourself get boxed in. Always leave enough room between you and the car in front of you at a stop light to pull out and drive away if something happens.
 
It's like they say, in Apocalypse Now: Never get out of the [land] boat.

That said, SWIM that was in another state was approached from the vehicle in front of them at a traffic light, as the driver in front was upset about something. Front Vehicle Guy was big.

When SWIM reached for his gat (in appendix carry), just the motion of his arm was enough to dissuade the Front Vehicle Guy from continuing, and he went back to his vehicle and drove away.

IMO, unless the other driver has a firearm, staying in your ride is the smart move. If he does have a firearm, flooring it, while remaining in you vehicle is a smart move.

IANAL, YMMV, etc.
 
In the defense’s version of events, the dash-cam footage showed that Roux was unhappy with Robbins’ slow driving on Main Street in Wareham.

Amabile said Roux veered right, trapping Robbins’ pickup truck against the curb. Roux then got out of the vehicle, Amabile said, and approached Robbins’ driver’s side window. Roux was yelling and threatening to kill Robbins, Amabile said, noting that the threats were audible on the dash-cam video.
The other side of the story is the prosecutions, who said Roux “was parked behind Robbins at an intersection when Robbins stopped his pickup truck in the road. Roux exited his sedan and approached Robbins’s truck."

Either way, Robbins was in a pickup truck and Roux in a sedan, how "trapped" was he, really?
 
If you have to ask, you probably shouldn’t do it. Even in a free state legal headaches aren’t worth it. If you have no choice, it is what it is of course.

Personally, with Bruen and the 2a movement continuing to win bigly, I think the next line of attack against us is going to be on self defense and use of force laws.
 
You will lose this legal battle 99% of the time. Just keep driving and if if things start to escalate, call 911.

Also, never let yourself get boxed in. Always leave enough room between you and the car in front of you at a stop light to pull out and drive away if something happens.
This. To the point if its a slow rolling rager, you can "train" them directly to the cops. Then either 2 things happen, the cops will peel them off or they'll all of a sudden realize that theyre f***ing acting retarded and break contact.

It's way easier to defend yourself under "reasonable person" doctrine if you go full retard with the car trying to escape the situation than it is getting out or opening the window. The former is someone trying to save their ass, the latter looks/smells like mutual combat and "self defense" goes right out the window. Any damage you do to your car insurance will pay for it. And even surcharges for an intentional collision/pushing shit out of the way or whatever are going to be cheap money even the first warmup round you would spend with a defense attorney.
 
Also, never let yourself get boxed in. Always leave enough room between you and the car in front of you at a stop light to pull out and drive away if something happens.
Great point. If you can see the rear tires of the car in front of you, you can pull around it.
 
You will lose this legal battle 99% of the time. Just keep driving and if if things start to escalate, call 911.

Also, never let yourself get boxed in. Always leave enough room between you and the car in front of you at a stop light to pull out and drive away if something happens.

basic lesson from vehicle convoy combat theory, being in a vehicle is an advantage, and being in a moving is a huge advantage against incoming threats. always keep driving unless you have to make a stand

Great point. If you can see the rear tires of the car in front of you, you can pull around it.

This. Always leave room between you and the car in front of you, it's a good habit to get in to, it becomes natural after a while. Don't get boxed in.

Stay in the car w/ the windows up if at all possible. If someone stops in front of you and gets out of the car, drive around them or back up if you can. If you absolutely can't, then assess the situation: Is it a harmless Karen who doesn't pose a physical threat and just wants to squawk? Let her, and tape it. If it's a dude menacing, do what you need to do to get out of danger - staying in the car is usually the best option. If someone gets out of their vehicle w/ a baseball bat or axe, run their ass over, let the police/insurance sort it out.

Also, your car door is your friend. If they're actively trying to smash the window or open the door, the door can be used as a weapon to strike them with, then drive off. You can also use your door as a shield, or a weapon (more in cases when someone attacks you while getting in/out of the car). Have pepper spray readily available, and a knife. And of course I presume you're carrying.
 
The quote I believe is…

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
Gen Mattis
[thumbsup]He was quoting a book he kept nearby as did other leaders before him.



Meditations in Popular Culture​

Just as Frederick the Great reportedly rode into battle with the works of the Stoics in his saddlebags, so too did marine and NATO commander General James “Mad Dog” Mattis, who carried Meditations with him on deployments in the Persian Gulf, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Bill Clinton reportedly reads it once a year, and one can imagine him handing a copy to Hillary after her heart-wrenching loss in the US presidential election. Lanterns on the Levee author William Alexander Percy observed in his autobiography that “there is left to each of us, no matter how far defeat pierces, the unassailable wintry kingdom of Marcus Aurelius. . . . It is not outside, but within, and when all is lost, it stands fast.”

Theodore Roosevelt, after his presidency, spent eight months exploring (and nearly dying in) the unknown jungles of the Amazon, and of the eight books he brought on the journey, two were Marcus Aurelius’ Meditations and Epictetus’ Enchiridion. Chinese leader Wen Jiabao has re-read the book on countless occasions. Marcus’s writing also makes a prominent appearance in Steinbeck’s East of Eden, in John Stuart Mill’s On Liberty, and of course many people know Marcus Aurelius from the popular film Gladiator, where he is the old and wise emperor at the beginning of the film played by Richard Harris.
 
No matter the cause. My thought process is. No matter what happened. A conflict will most likely cost me 100K in a good shoot. So, anything that happens. Will this cost more than that? Which basically means. Will I (or anyone with me) be hurt or killed. It all comes down to situational awareness. Don't put yourself in a no way out situation. Always leave room in front of your car.

One thing about covid. It has kept a lot of people out of my space. If someone gets to close. Give a few coughs and people usually back up. Kinda funny to watch
 
aways keep pepper spray handy, i sprayed a**h***s twice; bums that tried to grab me through the car window. had a can of mace back in the day when in came in a large can like raid near me. it was funny; as i drove away could see the a**h***s jumping around : i'll kick your ass, i'll kick your ass on and on. the down side; one time got some in my left eye, ouch
 
You will lose this legal battle 99% of the time. Just keep driving and if if things start to escalate, call 911.

Also, never let yourself get boxed in. Always leave enough room between you and the car in front of you at a stop light to pull out and drive away if something happens.
my dad taught me this before I could even see over the dash. Always leave room to move. Lock doors roll up windows and get away. Its only "worth it" if you have no where to retreat to.
 
You will lose this legal battle 99% of the time. Just keep driving and if if things start to escalate, call 911.

Also, never let yourself get boxed in. Always leave enough room between you and the car in front of you at a stop light to pull out and drive away if something happens.

This was taught in my driver's ed class in 1972. When you stop, if you stay far enough behind the vehicle in front of you so you can see their rear tires (over the end of your hood) meet the pavement, you will always have room to get out from behind them without backing up.
 
Road rage being so common is why I run a forward and rear facing dash camera that records audio, and I always keep two MK-3 size cans of the law enforcement Sabre Red at easy reach in my door pocket for road ragers. I've been forced to use it once in the 18 years I've been driving. I was in my truck in a parking lot with engine off, my kid in the car, guy approached my drivers door out of nowhere and became beligerent and tried to swing at me through the open window, he thought I cut him off or something. I already had the can in my hand ready to go the second he came up to my window. Hot sauce shut him down real quick, it was quite comical as he came running out of the nearby store screaming and dumping milk on his face while trying to call 911. It was in Palmer where I know some of the Leo's from when I did loss prevention and they basically laughed at the guy told him he better smarten up that he was lucky all he got was pepper sprayed. The thing that sealed the deal for them and make them not question it was that I was in my vehicle and the other guy had gotten out of his vehicle and approached mine, that automatically made him the agressor in their mind. I was also the first person to call the PD and speak to dispatch which helps.
 
This was taught in my driver's ed class in 1972. When you stop, if you stay far enough behind the vehicle in front of you so you can see their rear tires (over the end of your hood) meet the pavement, you will always have room to get out from behind them without backing up.

I been doing this forever, but that is a good rule of thumb.. I usually just eyeball the distance.
 
Back
Top Bottom