ATF Loses Guns, Laptops....

center442

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(I didn't come up with this on a search of the forum. Mods, if it's a dupe please delete.)

This makes me wonder what the attitude of the BATFE would be toward a private citizen who was this careless...[thinking][rolleyes] If you do a web search on the topic "ATF loses guns" you'll find many FFL holders who have been punished for being even less careless. I guess what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

BTW, when I went back to Yahoo's web page a minute later to post the link to the story it had disappeared. Hmmmm......

Audit: ATF lost 76 weapons, hundreds of laptops

By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer1 hour, 51 minutes ago

The ATF lost 76 weapons and hundreds of laptops over five years, the Justice Department reported Wednesday, blaming carelessness and sloppy record-keeping.

Thirty-five of the missing handguns, rifles, Tasers and other weapons were stolen, as were 50 laptops, the internal audit found. Two of the stolen weapons were used in crimes.

The audit by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine found "inadequate" oversight of weapons and laptops resulted in "significant rates of losses" at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

"It is especially troubling that that ATF's rate of loss for weapons was nearly double that of the FBI and DEA, and that ATF did not even know whether most of its lost, stolen, or missing laptop computers contained sensitive or classified information," he added.

In a Sept. 10 letter responding to the audit, ATF acting Director Michael J. Sullivan said his agency "agrees or partially agrees with most of the recommendations."

"We are revising our procedures of reporting losses of weapons or laptops," Sullivan said.

The audit looked at ATF's inventory of weapons, laptops, ammunition and explosives between Oct. 1, 2002 and Aug. 31, 2007.

It found that ATF lost three times more weapons each month than it had in a similar 2002 audit by the Treasury Department, which used to oversee the agency. It also lost 50 times as many laptops as reported in the earlier audit.

Of the 76 weapons, 35 were reported stolen, 19 lost and 12 missing from inventories, investigators found. Of the 418 missing laptops, 50 were stolen, 8 lost and 274 could not be found during inventory. Another 86 laptops were unaccounted for because ATF had either destroyed or lost documents showing where they were, the audit concluded.

Two weapons reported stolen were used to commit crimes. In one instance, a gun was stolen from an ATF car parked outside the agent's home and later used to shoot through the window of another residence, the audit found. In the other, a stolen ATF gun was taken from a burglary suspect.

Additionally, ATF employees did not report 13 of the 76 lost weapons, or 365 of the 418 missing laptops, to internal affairs as required. ATF officials also did not report much of the lost equipment to the Justice Department.

Investigators could not conclude what was on 398 of 418 missing laptops — except that few were encrypted. That means any sensitive material on the laptops could have been exposed.

Moreover, "we found that ATF did not regularly attempt to determine whether the lost, stolen or missing laptop computers contained sensitive or classified information," the audit said.

But few — only 18 of 7,500 — ATF laptops were authorized to hold classified information.

Compared to weapons loss rates for the FBI and Drug Enforcement Administration, the ATF misplaced almost twice as many guns. The audit found that the ATF lost .52 weapons per 1,000 employees, compared to .29 at the FBI and .28 at the DEA.

Fine's investigators concluded there were proper controls and oversight of explosives in ATF's possession, and good security for ammunition. However, nine of 20 ATF field offices surveyed did not have proper accounting methods for ammunition.

___

On the Net:

The Justice Department's report can be found at: http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/ATF/a0829/final.pdf
 

doobie

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Two weapons reported stolen were used to commit crimes. In one instance, a gun was stolen from an ATF car parked outside the agent's home and later used to shoot through the window of another residence, the audit found. In the other, a stolen ATF gun was taken from a burglary suspect.

This is why ATF agents shouldn't have guns, they contribute toward gun violence.
 

Scrivener

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It found that ATF lost three times more weapons each month than it had in a similar 2002 audit by the Treasury Department, which used to oversee the agency. It also lost 50 times as many laptops as reported in the earlier audit./QUOTE]

So all this government ordnance and data is now "on the street."

I feel so much safer knowing these professionals are protecting us. [rolleyes]
 
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ATF

It found that ATF lost three times more weapons each month than it had in a similar 2002 audit by the Treasury Department, which used to oversee the agency. It also lost 50 times as many laptops as reported in the earlier audit./QUOTE]

So all this government ordnance and data is now "on the street."

I feel so much safer knowing these professionals are protecting us. [rolleyes]
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Yup. Talk about the gang that couldn`t shoot straight. FUBAR organization.
 
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All Things Fubar.

WTF; is ADD a prerequisite for the position?

Are we going to have to start attaching things to agents like school kids with their mitten clips?
 
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this news item shows up at least yearly showing what a bunch of nincompoops the agents are. You would think that since this happens so many times a little refresher course on responsibility would be in order. My company requires me to sit through quarterly meeting on safety,MSDS and environmental rules MANDATED by the federal govt because we are military contractors. So why should the BATFE agents be any different?
 
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All Things Fubar.

WTF; is ADD a prerequisite for the position?

Are we going to have to start attaching things to agents like school kids with their mitten clips?

That's perfect Raoul Duke! I can just picture some poor slob agent walking down the street with an AR, a laptop, 2sets of cuffs, a shotgun, a radio, a ballistic vest, and a dog all attached to his clothing. [rofl]
 
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My company requires me to sit through quarterly meeting on safety,MSDS and environmental rules MANDATED by the federal govt because we are military contractors. So why should the BATFE agents be any different?

That says it all.

Your company is a military contractor, so the Fed's expect you to do things similar to the way the DoD does them.

The BATFE (FWIW, they hate the 2 extra letters) couldn't carry the DoD's jockstraps, let alone come remotely close to meeting the DoD standards. I think you'll find other .gov agencies in the same boat.
 
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That's perfect Raoul Duke! I can just picture some poor slob agent walking down the street with an AR, a laptop, 2sets of cuffs, a shotgun, a radio, a ballistic vest, and a dog all attached to his clothing. [rofl]

Yup, and just to top it off, the string holding everything attached would have to be a bright red yarn...and the name tags would have to be sewn in by wives or mothers prior to the first day "on the job"
 

wahsben

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Maybe they should have chips imbeded in them and their firearms so that if the firearms are further away than arms reach they both start beeping.
This is an organization that should be dissolved.
 

doobie

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Any government agent who loses government property should be investigated fully and if they are found at fault, they should be fired and never be able to work for the government again.....

...Can anyone see the problems with that?

...I can... government investigating it's own = it was never the fault of the agent, but had it been a citizen, then they would have been at fault.
 

drumenigma

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Any government agent who loses government property should be investigated fully and if they are found at fault, they should be fired and never be able to work for the government again.....

...Can anyone see the problems with that?

...I can... government investigating it's own = it was never the fault of the agent, but had it been a citizen, then they would have been at fault.

The government will take responsibility for its actions the day hell freezes over. You should know that when you go to work for the government they give you a suit of +1 protection against prosecution.
 
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The government will take responsibility for its actions the day hell freezes over. You should know that when you go to work for the government they give you a suit of +1 protection against prosecution.

The reality is that government works very hard to harm its union employees. Which is why you see no improvements to work flow with computerization in many places. The unions do not give one inch to modernization plans. It is not due to the lack of foresight, but the employees have been burned so many times.

When you work in government service you will discover that there are employees out there only to exact physcological games on you. You will discover employees that are out there to disrupt things.

You will find management that believes that government should be a wasteful spender to PLOW money in a legimate fashion into the economy.

I have seen the hellbount destruction in trying to eliminate employees effect the local 4-h club.

Bill
 

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Lost or Stolen laws

In jurisdictions that have (or want to have) "Lost or Stolen" reporting laws, will the ATF office be required to file the report with the local police?
 
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The reality is that government works very hard to harm its union employees......snipped..........

As to the whole post, I've got to ask you a simple question.

Are you now, or have you every been a Federal Employee?

Because, my employer has been the Federal Goverment (.mil, in one form or another) for the past 36 years (2 years of it, early '80's, I was just part time). And, I've seen little to none of what you;re talking about.

I sure haven't seen any of this. Our union (for my area) is pretty much a joke, voluntary, and I am a member and pay the dues as a means of "lawyer insurance".
 

drumenigma

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The reality is that government works very hard to harm its union employees. Which is why you see no improvements to work flow with computerization in many places. The unions do not give one inch to modernization plans. It is not due to the lack of foresight, but the employees have been burned so many times.

When you work in government service you will discover that there are employees out there only to exact physcological games on you. You will discover employees that are out there to disrupt things.

You will find management that believes that government should be a wasteful spender to PLOW money in a legimate fashion into the economy.

I have seen the hellbount destruction in trying to eliminate employees effect the local 4-h club.

Bill

From what I understand about unions is that government workers can not belong to a union under federal law.
(Lloyd-Lafollette Act and Civil Service Reform Act) There is no need to be in a union because government workers have to go through due process in the event their job is in jeopardy. The government may subcontract out something to a company that has union employees in a privately owned company but the government employees themselves are not in unions.
 
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From what I understand about unions is that government workers can not belong to a union under federal law.
(Lloyd-Lafollette Act and Civil Service Reform Act) There is no need to be in a union because government workers have to go through due process in the event their job is in jeopardy. The government may subcontract out something to a company that has union employees in a privately owned company but the government employees themselves are not in unions.

You understand wrong.

I'm a Federal Civil Service employee (WG-11 pay grade) and I'm a member of the union. AATU, part of NAGE. http://www.nage.org/

There sometimes is a need for the unions with Federal Employees, but, it isn't about money or healthcare.

It is about workplace equity, safety and general good working conditions. It keeps management from running amok, and doing what they wish.

Yes, I have filed a couple of grievances over the years.
 
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sig shooter

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it wouldnt suprise me to learn that the ATF was conviently "losing" guns so they could further there agenda to ban guns all togeather.
 

drumenigma

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You understand wrong.

I'm a Federal Civil Service employee (WG-11 pay grade) and I'm a member of the union. AATU, part of NAGE. http://www.nage.org/

There sometimes is a need for the unions with Federal Employees, but, it isn't about money or healthcare.

It is about workplace equity, safety and general good working conditions. It keeps management from running amok, and doing what they wish.

Yes, I have filed a couple of grievances over the years.

Hmm, maybe I remembered certain things incorrectly. But I still believe that as a government worker there are limitations. For example you are not allowed to strike correct?(for example, could you imagine what would happen if the police went on strike?) That was part of the first act I posted. Organization was allowed however under that act. I believe some of these acts were put in to place in order to protect the government from unions trying to leech more than they deserved. Not that I am saying all unions are bad as many do great things for people. There are just those that have occured over time that tried to take advantage of their position within the company.
 
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Limitations, definitely.

I happen to prefer a union that can't strike, has no control over health care or other such benefits, and isn't mandatory.

That way, they do what they're supposed to do. Protect the employees from overstepping management and promote safety.

The origins of unions was more over work conditions than over money.
 
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