DickWanner
Banned
Are there any auxillary forces of departments on the south coast that qualify for LEOSA coverage?
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Auxillary Force on the South Coast of MA that qualifies for LEOSA?
- Thread starter DickWanner
- Start date
As long as you meet the definitions set forth in LEOSA, you qualify for it. This includes part-time, full time, volunteer etc. There was a case out of NY city that states backed this up. I believe it was People V. Rodriguez, where a part time constable from PA was arrested in NYC for carrying.
DickWanner
Banned
I understand, but not all Auxiliary Forces meet the definitions for LEOSA. I was hoping to get some help in narrowing down my search.
I dont think auxiliary meets the standard,as it states you must have powers of arrest. In Ma Auxiliaries dont have powers of arrest.I know Auxiliaries became an issue at my agency when we were going through state accrediation. We could not have them work any paid details or do paid work .In order to have arrest powers they would have to be made reserves,which the dept and town did not want to do because it would involve medical and pshycoligal tests plus open the town up to 111 status if they were injured while working.
Auxiliary arrest status depends on individual towns. In the town I was an Auxiliary in, we had those powers (although rarely used). The neighboring towns auxiliary has arrest authority and ch. 90, etc.
Dickwanner, no offense meant but, if your sole motive for a LE job is to get LEOSA coverage, I would seek another employment choice. There is alot more to this job than that perk.
Dickwanner, no offense meant but, if your sole motive for a LE job is to get LEOSA coverage, I would seek another employment choice. There is alot more to this job than that perk.
I'll be honest I don't know what the revisions to LEOSA are (which were just enacted), so maybe things changed with respect to this aspect, but I know orignal LEOSA would not cover most of the part time "volunteer" LEO possitions. So i would not expect LEOSA coverage simply by getting on as an auxilery some place.
I will disagree with this in one respect. I agree getting a LEO "job" just to LEOSA coverage, probably not a good reason to get in the field. However we aren't talking LEO jobs we are talking joining a depts auxilary...If in fact LEOSA now covers PT volunteers, I'd say LEOSA coverage would be a good enough reason to join an auxilary. If all it would take to be able to carry in all 50 states is volunteering 1 or 2 shifts a months as a auxilary officer...That sounds like a pretty good reason to join, works for the volunteers and the depts that would get use out of them...
I know what the revisions are, but it remains to be seen if/how MA will implement them. I know that they will cause serious heartache for MCOPA and GCAB who dislike LEOSA as it was and will positively hate it with the new changes. [EOPS Counsel is allegedly drafting a revision to the CMR.]
Per MGLs, "Auxiliary Police" fall under the Director of Civil Defense and have no police powers legally (per statute) any other time (and I'm not sure of it even in a declared emergency).
Although I have independently verified this, it was laid out for me first by my late Police Chief who told me that this was exactly why he disbanded them in my town and created his own Special Police force (under his command, not the Director of Civil Defense . . . who had no police experience).
Per MGLs, "Special Police" are not supposed to be a town gov't org, but really individual officers working for a company and are given police powers in their jobs ONLY. This was first told to me by a very good friend who took over a North Shore community police department as Chief (he later ran all the police academies in the Eastern half of MA). Per MGLs, so-called "Special Police" working directly under a Chief of Police for the city/town are actually called "Reserve/Intermittent Police Officers" (and attend the MPTC R/I Police Academy) and per statute (and his research) have police powers 24x7.
Now, with all that historical info behind us, police chiefs and towns are known to "do what they want" and create what they want with or without police powers. It's unknown to me if this has ever been challenged in court.
When I worked as an Aux PO at a very prominent Boston area college, a lot of the officers I worked with were also Aux or Special POs in various MetroWest and Suburban Boston communities. So issues like police powers, armed or not, etc. were discussed during many of our late evenings together (typically teams of 2-4 officers in a dorm from 1900 to 0300 hrs on weekends) during the lulls.
- Many Aux PDs were unarmed, with no arrest powers. Brookline, Natick, Belmont come to mind. IIRC, Randolph Aux POs were also but both Randolph and Stoughton PDs had both Aux and Special POs (Special POs were academy trained, armed and had police powers).
- MCOPA and others made a big push to rid MA of both Aux and Special POs for fear of "liability". I recall a conversation with the former Canton Police Chief who told me that Canton had disbanded their Aux PD a number of years earlier (when he was a Sgt) for that reason.
Some barriers to LEOSA for any and all POs in MA.
- No uniform IDs that have LEOSA required language on them.
- No uniform policy on issuance of IDs to FT, PT, Aux/Special POs, Constables, etc.
- If someone queries your department on your status, will the dispatcher say "NO, this person isn't a 'real police officer'!" jamming you up wrt LEOSA? [Will they even know who the FT retirees are? I wonder on this one and I know a few of our current dispatchers.]
- No uniform policy on issuance of retired IDs. I personally know retired FT POs that were INTENTIONALLY never given retired credentials (and in one case retirement was forced due to injuries from an on-the-job accident, no fault of the officer when he stopped to let an elderly lady cross the road and was rear-ended by a moonbat who "never saw the cruiser" in broad daylight).
Now to the duties of an Aux PO:
- Some towns will train their Aux POs. If so, this means ~6 months of attending the MPTC R/I Police Academy on your own dime (I know 1 or 2 departments that provided their Aux/Spl POs with a cruiser and pay to attend, mine didn't). When I did it in the early 1980s it was 2 nights a week.
- Some towns expect a lot from their Aux POs. I was actively recruited by Wayland PD to join there (I had been looking at moving to that area). They required 8 hrs/week IIRC plus additional training, etc. They appeared to be a very squared away bunch, but the time commitment was huge (especially if you didn't live there).
- In some towns Aux POs are treated as nothing more than slave labor . . . uniformed crossing guards to work every Sunday at churches, town events, etc. for free. Working a minimum of 16 unpaid hours over every July 4th got old, didn't allow me to enjoy being with Family and friends . . . knowing that you could never take vacation that week, etc. was a burden. I'm glad that I was off the PD before the town did First Night (they did it for a few years and then abandoned it), as I would have been forced to work for free and not be with my Wife! The Chief bitched to me about this, as his Wife had volunteered to chair part of First Night and HE wanted to be elsewhere with her.
- Some have to lay out big bucks for uniforms (some get them issued for free). My town gave us next to nothing but a badge, ID and ID case. Gun, leather, etc. cost me a pretty penny back then for a few years.
- A lot of FT POs will treat you like shit! I ended up in a face-off with one FT Detective one day over this sort of thing. Two other Spl POs were taunted mercilessly by the same Detective and a few other officers as they were filling in as temporary FT POs before FT appointments were made. A few demotions and other disciplinary action was taken when the Chief found out, but serious damage was done (including destroying the career aspirations of one Spl PO who had always wanted to become a FT PO in his hometown).
I was a Spcl PO (Reserve Officer) for many years. Over the years many have asked me why I risked my life for no pay. It's a hard question to answer, as I had no desire to ever become a FT PO. When the free vest program was available, our Chief refused to apply to supply vests for us. I was told by my late Chief that if we got injured on the job (even if we were working a paid shift or detail), we would NOT be eligible for Workman's Comp or any town equivalent. The Chief also told me that if ever got into a "legal action" due to the job, he would review all the facts and THEN make a determination if the Town Counsel (inept boobs) would cover us or NOT! Do I miss it? Yes and no, but when the current Chief offered to let me back on, I decided that 17 years was enough and opted out.
Len, I respect your time, effort, wisdom on the subject, you certainly have much more experience in the special/auxilary field than me (I really never had much interest in working for free), but I just wish to clarify in my post I specificly went with "PT volunteer LEO's" because I know it varies greatly town to town, not only what they are called (specials, auxillaries, reserves, etc) but what duties they have, some do virtually "everything" others do virtually nothing (police related)... As such anyone interested in joining such an organization should research it before taking on the responsability, because what your buddy does in town A may not be close to what you do in Town B. (but if you could join one of those "do nothing" depts and still be LEOSA covered, that does sound like a good deal to me).
Now with all due respect Len it is 2010 not 1980, if you want to talk about liability I would SERIOUSLY doubt there are any (reserve, auxillary, special) officers "taken on" (I won't say hired, because hired implies employed) by a dept that is not trained (ie sent to one of the R/I academies). It may be on thier own dime, but I just can't imagine (nor have I heard of) any depts currently that will let you go "play cop" without some training...
While my dept does not have any such "volunteer" officers, I am not pulling some sort of FT'er vs special, BS, simply pointing out peoples experience in the "volunteer LEO" field is going to vary greatly town to town, but I really doubt any "new guys" in this day and age are just hitting the streets with out so much as R/I academy...
Now with all due respect Len it is 2010 not 1980, if you want to talk about liability I would SERIOUSLY doubt there are any (reserve, auxillary, special) officers "taken on" (I won't say hired, because hired implies employed) by a dept that is not trained (ie sent to one of the R/I academies). It may be on thier own dime, but I just can't imagine (nor have I heard of) any depts currently that will let you go "play cop" without some training...
While my dept does not have any such "volunteer" officers, I am not pulling some sort of FT'er vs special, BS, simply pointing out peoples experience in the "volunteer LEO" field is going to vary greatly town to town, but I really doubt any "new guys" in this day and age are just hitting the streets with out so much as R/I academy...
You are right, it varies greatly from town to town.
Time changes all the rules and I can't state what training requirements might exist today for Auxiliary POs in various towns. When I went to work at the college as an Aux PO, I had already been Academy trained for my role as Spcl/Reserve PO in my town, so it was a non-issue personally. We were paid decently at the college. My only beef was that I would have liked to have been armed.
Fear of liability is what drove many departments to kill off their Aux/Spcl/Reserve components or throw out very high hurdles for anyone except those determined to become FT POs. Some require you to be on the Civil Service List, pass psych and PT evaluations, etc. . . . all of which is fine IMNSHO if the objective is to get appointed FT, but if one just wants to help out and wear a target on their back for the privilege of doing "free work", then I think some of this can be excessive and especially if you are charged for the privilege of taking these steps.
As I pointed out in a recent post, I asked and found out that officers today can be put on the street prior to attending an Academy, but they must pass the Brown Book Exam first and fulfill some other training. I recall shortly after 8 of us were appointed as Spcl/Reserve POs, that we had to go to MSP HQ and take the Brown Book Exam. It was a few years later before slots opened up at the MCJTC R/I Academy so that I (and many others) could attend and then take another exam prior to becoming certified.
Shepherd
NES Member
Actually there are some. I was an Auxiliary for a large city department in Middlesex County. We weren't sponsored to the reserve academy until we had been on for at least 1 year. In the meantime we were in full uniform riding around in a marked cruiser responding to service calls. The only training I received before I was allowed to go to the academy was two 4hr classes that covered policies and procedures, O/C, and use of force.
All I can say is Not good.
All I can say is Not good.
My appologies, it would seem that there are in fact a handfull of agencies in MA that will still let people "play cop" prior to completing any sort of academy training. I certainly wouldn't volunteer for such a gig, nor would I really want these untrained folks working on my department or for my hometown. But evidently it does still occur in some towns in MA...
DickWanner
Banned
These were my thoughts, volunteer my time in return for LEOSA. There could definitely be worse reasons for wanting to join an Aux force...
DickWanner
Banned
Len, your insight into what the job is all about is really helpful. Thank you for that.
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you can go through the academy and still be no better than someone "playing cop"....
True, "book learning" is good, but nothing beats OJT with a good FTO in the world of police work. The "real world" of police work is not the same as what you learn in the Academy, although the Academy is an excellent foundation.
Certainly...I am sure some people could "wing it" just fine, AND academy training does not match the learning which occurs on the road doing the job (for anyone). However such simple things as proper "use of force", defensive tactics, or the basics of good report writing, are a few of the basic "skills" I'd like someone to have BEFORE hitting the streets. Leaving worst case senarios asside, really even a simple motor vehicle accident could be completely "F'd" up if the responding officer(s) don't know how or what should be in a proper accident report. If you are the "victim" in such an accident you are going to want a decent report when you start battling your insurance company...
W
wolf223
so your gonna risk your life, per se, just for carry perks. um, no thanks. your head is not in the game. your a mall ninja...
DickWanner
Banned
I'm a mall ninja because I want to have the means to defend myself where ever I go? Sorry, I don't smoke so I can't light up a Kool...
