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Becoming a LEO officer...

Serapis said:
TOM1960 said:
You also have to figure in Florida's cost of living. You can (at least at the time that guy's stepson applied) get a nice house for a fraction of what you would pay up here. Municipalities like Lowell and Lawrence are now having problems funding public service pensions and their fully-paid-for-life insurance bennies for retirees. Eventually, it will have to come to an end. There are cops in MA who are under indictment for felonies (including a deputy chief) and one cop sitting in a Florida jail, awaiting child rape charges, still collecting their full salaries. This has to stop. When the money finally runs out, it will. Money (or lack of it), is a powerful weapon indeed. Lack of cash, and the resulting insolvency, caused the demise of the once-mighty Soviet Union.
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Really guy?
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I'm curious if that was a blanket "really" or if you're responding to specific parts.

Because he makes some decent points.

Many towns are in serious financial trouble trying to pay retiree benefits including insurance.

It very well may come to a point where some knuckle under, apologize and tell the retirees "Sorry but it's done".

I have no thoughts about collecting pensions while in legal difficulty. That's probably a 50 page thread that would end in a lock.

The USSR did have monumental economic problems that contributed to the collapse.
 
namedpipes said:
I'm curious if that was a blanket "really" or if you're responding to specific parts.

Because he makes some decent points.

Many towns are in serious financial trouble trying to pay retiree benefits including insurance.

It very well may come to a point where some knuckle under, apologize and tell the retirees "Sorry but it's done".

I have no thoughts about collecting pensions while in legal difficulty. That's probably a 50 page thread that would end in a lock.

The USSR did have monumental economic problems that contributed to the collapse.
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There was so much misinformation in that thread, its hard to start somewhere. Without derailing the point of this thread I opted for a short snippy response. That Guy touched on it pretty well and I would like to continue by saying that cop in jail is not getting full salary. The BS around here with LEO's or public employees is out of control.
 
That Guy said:
I like how health insurance for a retiree (who is not eligible for Medicaid because he was in civil service retirement) is considered a "bennie" by you.

And re: funding? You do realize that civil service pensions are self-funded and the state and cities' shares would increase if everyone was switched to social security instead of the current system, right? If cities like Lowell and Lawrence are having problems managing their funds (and I have no evidence of this - in fact, nearly every city in the state is part of a larger pool of pension funds and individual cities do not manage their own funds for the most part) then that is a matter of mismanagement, not a problem of the pension system.

Whenever I hear someone who is clearly not part of the civil service pension system talking about pension reform it makes me laugh.
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This.

The misinformation and misconceptions when it comes to municipal penison liabilites is staggering. The problem is that only the rules are centralized, the pension funding is not. It's difficult to make blanket statements about the Massachusetts pension system because there are so many different entites. The MBTA, for example, has needed reform for a LONG time. Meanwhile, Anytown's system is doing just fine. But everyone wants to slam the two together and say they're both shit and need to be tossed out.

As an aside, my public pension system is totally self-sufficient. My pension deductions are 11% of gross income, and I've paid well over $40k in contributions before the age of 30. If you put that into investment vehicles that merely track the market, you should come out fine without the need for any taxpayer subsidies.

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vipprimo said:
I'm going to say the law of averages means whether it's a sterotype or not, it's going to happen.
location_location_police_station_dunkin_donuts.JPG
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DMAK's model strikes again.
 
jkommelb said:
They recently changed the lists; it now goes son/daughter of LEO killed in the line of duty, disabled vet, resident veteran, resident, then EVERYONE else in the state (may have the exact order wrong, and there may be another special category I'm missing). For example, as a non-veteran with a 97, I am now in the 2400s on the list. This is not a town/city list; it is THE list, for the entire state...find here). In other words, they are saying if you are not a resident of a civil service town or a member of a special category, you WILL NOT get hired by a civil service department. MSP is of course always an option, but even MBTA is likely a no go unless you're a veteran now that there is no selecting it.
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I recently confirmed this to be true. What I posted in post #35 is no longer the case.
 
jkommelb said:
They recently changed the lists; it now goes son/daughter of LEO killed in the line of duty, disabled vet, resident veteran, resident, then EVERYONE else in the state (may have the exact order wrong, and there may be another special category I'm missing). For example, as a non-veteran with a 97, I am now in the 2400s on the list. This is not a town/city list; it is THE list, for the entire state...find here). In other words, they are saying if you are not a resident of a civil service town or a member of a special category, you WILL NOT get hired by a civil service department. MSP is of course always an option, but even MBTA is likely a no go unless you're a veteran now that there is no selecting it.
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On the bright side, there is another war brewing in Syria, so you have a great opportunity to defend our freedom and get disabled. Don't let this valuable offer pass you by.
 
As an aside, my public pension system is totally self-sufficient.
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I disagree, since "risk" is part of self-sufficiency. Taking you at your word that a market return (based on historical market performance) will allow your contributions to fully fund your pension, it is also worth observing that the public at large, and not the public sector pensioner, underwrites the funding risk if a market event causes said pension returns to fall short.

Alternatively put - would your contribution purchase a guaranteed payment annuity from an insurance company equal to your projected pension payout?

Us private sector folks who fund out own pensions have to bear that risk ourselves. Huge difference.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
I disagree, since "risk" is part of self-sufficiency. Taking you at your word that a market return (based on historical market performance) will allow your contributions to fully fund your pension, it is also worth observing that the public at large, and not the public sector pensioner, underwrites the funding risk if a market event causes said pension returns to fall short.

Alternatively put - would your contribution purchase a guaranteed payment annuity from an insurance company equal to your projected pension payout?

Us private sector folks who fund out own pensions have to bear that risk ourselves. Huge difference.
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Totally true. And I agree the underwriting helps secure better benefits and terms.

But how much have the taxpayers actually have had to cover? The answer in my case is nothing, which seems to me these doomsday scenarios are totally overblown. The problem is when we allow the taxpayers to continue to cover funds that have been grossly mismanaged. I hardly expect you to find that at all compelling, but when anti-pension advocates throw around figures like $100 billion in unfunded pension liabilities, you can't deny their isn't intent to mislead the public into thinking they will have to actually pay ALL of that.

My point is that the perception of some people is that the pension disbursements are simply a gift out of the general fund paid for wholly by the taxpayer, and to which the pensioner never contributed. Nothing is further from the truth.
 
And to answer your question about annuity purchasing, the answer is probably not. In fact, private annuities are some of the worst investment vehicles going. But the reason has more to do with the hefty commissions and fees made on annuities by those selling and maintaining them. If the annuity was cheaper than the usual annuity now (I think the average aggregated annuity cost is around 8% of principal) I would suspect it would actually be better than the pension system.

The public pension system doesn't have to worry about paying out dividends shareholders on top of disbursing funds.
 
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Anyone take the test last weekend? I took it in Boston. Felt it was relatively easy. I did not realize you had 3 slots that you could apply for I am going to have to see if I can add choices.
 
dennism said:
Anyone take the test last weekend? I took it in Boston. Felt it was relatively easy. I did not realize you had 3 slots that you could apply for I am going to have to see if I can add choices.
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Took it in Marblehead last weekend. Second time. First time I was one of the fools wearing nice clothes and sweating my ass off. No more of that. Sweatpants all the way!

And to my knowledge they eliminated your 4 choice thing. You get residency in your town and then everyone goes on a big list.
 
dennism said:
That test was horrible way to easy. Does anyone actually believe that is an accurate judge of hiring?
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You can score in the high, high 90's and still be so low on the list that it is doubtful you will be hired. I think you are a bit naive when it comes to civil service tests in general. It is totally irrelevant in most cases how relevant the test is. If you haven't figured that by now you have much to learn grasshopper.

Good thing they don't test grammar BTW, it's "too" not "to" [wink]


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m00nraker said:
And to my knowledge they eliminated your 4 choice thing. You get residency in your town and then everyone goes on a big list.
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That is my understanding of the new way. Civil service might be a dying breed. I know several municipalities wanting to get out of it including mine.

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JWPaolilliJr said:
You will have time to spend with your family and attend family functions, instead of having your wife go and bring the kids and tell the rest of the family that you had to work.
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Happens all to often in my house. But I signed up for it and it pays the bills. That, and it gets you out of alot of inlaw functions that you care not to attend. [laugh]
 
I mostly took the test at my dads urging, this way next time it comes around I will not get pestered again. I am not particularly enamored with becoming a police officer.

I did not do much research on the test before hand, I can't believe a 70 is passing. I was just shocked at how low level the deductive reasoning questions were.

That was typed on my phone sorry about missing that o

mark056 said:
You can score in the high, high 90's and still be so low on the list that it is doubtful you will be hired. I think you are a bit naive when it comes to civil service tests in general. It is totally irrelevant in most cases how relevant the test is. If you haven't figured that by now you have much to learn grasshopper.

Good thing they don't test grammar BTW, it's "too" not "to" [wink]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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dennism said:
I mostly took the test at my dads urging, this way next time it comes around I will not get pestered again. I am not particularly enamored with becoming a police officer.

I did not do much research on the test before hand, I can't believe a 70 is passing. I was just shocked at how low level the deductive reasoning questions were.

That was typed on my phone sorry about missing that o
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Don't worry, you probably won't become one, the odds are not in your favor. Is your father a LEO?
 
fencer said:
I knew I should have been a cop!
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It's not all it's cracked up to be... the functions you DO end up at? You spend the entire time listening to NES mem... I mean people bitching at you for 5 hours about the JBT they ran into, and do you know them?

[rofl]
 
I was told by a friend who knows the HR in charge and she told him the scores will not be out until November? But if it's out today I can't wait to find out...
 
The mass civil service tweeted it was the 15th back in sept. People on mass cops are saying its out at 12 this haven't seen anything.
 
I heard it was 2, I dunno tho I dont meet those classifications. Minority status also supposedly gives you points.
 

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