Best article on mass shootings

[Varmint]

this is the best article I’ve read on the subject.

California & Mass Shootings -- We Don't Know How to Stop This Epidemic of Violence | National Review

IMO, We are now seeing one of the byproducts of decades of political correctness and the destruction of family values. We’ve taught generations that it’s ok to air their grievances in any way they want, including doing a mass shooting.

 

[enbloc]

...decades of political correctness and the destruction of family values...

Spot on. When you don't even love your family, your neighbors are next to dirt...

 

[wahsben]

Mass shootings in the U.S. by state 1982-2018 | Statistic

Yes, we do know how to stop Mass Shootings. At least most of them. Allow people to protect and defend themselves.

 

[headednorth]

Theres no one cause.
>Breakdown of the family is one. I just read somewhere today that 26 of the last 27 shooters had no father at home. >Psychiatric drugs being over prescribed are another.
>Overall the morals of the country have gone down the tubes.
>Zero tolerance in schools is a problem imo. Kids get picked on and if they fight back they are punished along with the bully.
>Facebook moms who teach their kids that violence never solved anything until they end up getting bullied in school and have no skills to fight back.
>Shooters are glorified to some extent in the media and online.
Bottom line, which the article mentioned, is that people are even seeing this as an option today where they didnt in the past. Guns were all over the place with little or no restrictions at one point just a few generations ago and this didnt happen with anywhere near the frequency.

 

[TLB]

this is the best article I’ve read on the subject.

California & Mass Shootings -- We Don't Know How to Stop This Epidemic of Violence | National Review

IMO, We are now seeing one of the byproducts of decades of political correctness and the destruction of family values. We’ve taught generations that it’s ok to air their grievances in any way they want, including doing a mass shooting.

I linked a similar article awhile back, maybe after Vegas. The Gladwell writings are very enlightening, IMO.

 

[wahsben]

>Zero tolerance in schools is a problem imo. Kids get picked on and if they fight back they are punished along with the bully.

There is also the problem of programs that excuse criminal behavior like they have at Parkland. Parkland Shooting: Did Obama-Era School Discipline Policies Enable It? | National Review

Shooters are glorified to some extent in the media and online

Which can lead to the copycat effect.

Guns were all over the place with little or no restrictions at one point just a few generations ago and this didnt happen with anywhere near the frequency.

I can't recall any happening until Columbine in 99 and guns were readily available. They weren't locked up or if they were it was a wooden cabinet with glass windows in the doors. Guns in the mid sixties and before could be mail ordered and shipped directly to your house. No ffl involved. The problem isn't guns.

 

[headednorth]

There is also the problem of programs that excuse criminal behavior like they have at Parkland. Parkland Shooting: Did Obama-Era School Discipline Policies Enable It? | National Review

True, goes both ways.

I can't recall any happening until Columbine in 99 and guns were readily available. They weren't locked up or if they were it was a wooden cabinet with glass windows in the doors. Guns in the mid sixties and before could be mail ordered and shipped directly to your house. No ffl involved. The problem isn't guns.

Agreed. Problem is its the simple solution for people who arent gun people and its encouraged by the gov because their goal is to eliminate public gun ownership. So people who dont think beyond step one are being led by the people who will benefit most from that.

Its a complex problem with no easy solution. Ive tried to tell people that gun were delivered in the mail or bought over the counter at the local hardware store, kids bringing rifles to school to shoot rats at the town dump later in the day, etc, and none of this happened. All they say is so what its happening now and we need to take peoples guns away.

I point out that crimes are being committed by criminals who by definition dont obey the law. Any laws requiring gun confiscation will be followed by people who are using them legally and ignored by people who arent. They respond that they need to just take them then. I ask how enthusiastic the police will be about taking guns by force from people who are either criminals or who feel strongly enough about keeping them that they are willing to risk a confrontation with the police. They respond with its their job or use the National Guard or whatever.

Its frustrating. Its like theyre little kids just making up stuff as they go because they read something on FB and when I try to inject some reality or get them to flesh out some details they dont have any real answers.

 

[durask]

Once again, everyone who has not read Gladwell's article should do so.
It is a copy cat effect and I'll bet you that at this very moment a few hundred people are already pondering their blaze of glory moment.

Personally I think that a very public and fast takedown of a shooter by a CC citizen will actually break the cycle - however we can't sit around waiting for the magic moment.

I think there should be some kind of bipartisan commission. NRA should participate - optics ARE important.
This is a dangerous moment and like history of the Prohibition shows us, public opinion may turn around rather rapidly. Not doing anything right now is not something we can afford. Republican pols will turn on us the second their polling shows that majority of their voters support gun control and they will pass confiscation laws in a moment's notice if they think it is in their interest. Remember again, it was a conservative PM who started Australian gun confiscation and in the UK conservative government under John Major banned all handguns after Dunblane. Conservatives will take your guns just as easy as the moonbats, most of them are only for 2A because they need our votes.

 

[wahsben]

I point out that crimes are being committed by criminals who by definition dont obey the law

You probably already have but:
Point out that prohibition didn't stop people from getting alcohol it just created a black market and the crime associated with it. Point out that the war on drugs hasn't stopped people from getting drugs, it just created a black market and the crime associated with it. Point out the increase in the amount of guns owned yet there is a decrease in violent crime. Point out how many times guns are used in self defense and that gun control really only disarms the innocent since they're the only ones obeying the law which leaves them vulnerable to the criminal element. As you already know gun control gives bad people the upper hand. If they say the police will keep them safe give them the average response time for police and point out that depending on the police hasn't worked to well in stopping these mass shootings. Also tell them to read Dial 911 and Die https://www.amazon.com/Dial-911-Die-Garn-Turner/dp/0964230445 Talking to many or most is like banging your head against the wall but maybe at least for some a light will come on. That's about all we can hope for.

 

[wahsben]

Once again, everyone who has not read Gladwell's article should do so

Where is the link to Gladwells article?

 

[durask]

Where is the link to Gladwells article?

How School Shootings Spread

 

[June4th]

There has always been gun ownership. There have always been broken families. There have always been awkward boys that didn't quite fit in.

There hasn't always been wide use of SSRI drugs. Check the records: almost every mass shooters of recent has been on it. The rage-inducing effect is real.

 

[durask]

It is actually very easy to stop mass shootings.
Draconian restrictions on guns and who can own them. Done.

What about people who will not be able to defend themselves from criminals? That will never get published, maybe some utterly egregious home invasion torture murder case and even then the criminals would be the real victims because blah blah blah. A nutjob runs down 60 people with a truck? Well, imagine if he had a truck AND a gun!

We need quality propaganda of our own.

 

[June4th]

Also, majority of mass shooters do not have criminal history, and they shoot themselves the moment they encountered armed response. In addition to the 'only way to stop a BG with a gun is a GG with a gun' argument, it is important to point out that

1. Background checks do not work for first time perpetrators.
2. There is not a law that you can enact to stop a man who is willing to die. The worst punishment laws can dole out is death penalty. A man who planned to kill himself in commitment of a criminal act doesn't give a flying f**k about any law on the book.

 

[durask]

Also, majority of mass shooters do not have criminal history, and they shoot themselves the moment they encountered armed response. In addition to the 'only way to stop a BG with a gun is a GG with a gun' argument, it is important to point out that

1. Background checks do not work for first time perpetrators.
2. There is not a law that you can enact to stop a man who is willing to die. The worst punishment laws can dole out is death penalty. A man who planned to kill himself in commitment of a criminal act doesn't give a flying f**k about any law on the book.

OK, then the answer is - in that case let us ban any semi auto firearm with detachable magazine or fixed magazine that holds more than 5 cartridges. If that does not work, keep banning down the list.

 

[durask]

There has always been gun ownership. There have always been broken families. There have always been awkward boys that didn't quite fit in.

There hasn't always been wide use of SSRI drugs. Check the records: almost every mass shooters of recent has been on it. The rage-inducing effect is real.

And here is the thing.
NRA should say - absolutely let us do research on gun violence. Let us do retrospective review of all shooters and see if they had any psychiatric drug in their system. Also, from now on let us test every perpetrator of gun violence for every psychiatric drug we can think of. What do you mean no? Now you don't want to do research on gun violence, eh? You throw it out there enough so that the public starts to think about the issue.

Antis are now aggressively pressuring medical establishment to push for gun control. We always see threads here how some doctors ask about guns etc. You ain't seen nothing yet. Once Medicare and virtue signaling insurance companies issue their marching orders, every doctor, nurse and medical assistant will be pushing anti gun propaganda 24-7. Do you smoke? Do you drink? Do you use drugs? Do you own guns? Ever thought of quitting smoking, drinking, using drugs, owning guns?

So let's do the research and if there is any correlation between SSRIs and shooters then you shout it from every rooftop you have access to, put your enemy on the defensive.

Honestly, it is ironic, but when it comes to propaganda war it is us who are bringing a plastic knife to a gun fight.

 

[headednorth]

Noveske wasn't shy about making the connections between SSRI and shootings...until he happened to die in a single car accident.

 

[durask]

Noveske wasn't shy about making the connections between SSRI and shootings...until he happened to die in a single car accident.

In that case either

1) it was an accident
2) he was killed by someone for some other reason and this was actually a great red herring
3) deep state is all powerful and we are all doomed

Also, an anti would say:
Wow, it sure is troubling how many of those mass shooters were on SSRIs. But see, if we ban guns then no one on SSRIs will be able to commit a mass shooting. Problem solved!

 

[oldguy68]

What's troubling about the whole mass shooting thing is we have been massacring ourselves for thousands of years.
So we are more or less civilized in these last 50 years or so.
But the problem is every persons moral compass are different.
Some are inclined to kill innocently with no feelings and others will only do so when defending their life.

Then you have the whole mental heath and state of the person involved in doing the killing.

The biggest mass murder in the United States was on 9/11.
But we still haven't banned or limited the possession of box cutters or stopped planes from flying!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Personally I think that a very public and fast takedown of a shooter by a CC citizen will actually break the cycle - however we can't sit around waiting for the magic moment.

It will be on Fox News for about 2 days and ignored by mainstream media.

 

[wahsben]

It will be on Fox News for about 2 days and ignored by mainstream media.

There was recently the incident in Alabama Alabama McDonald's gunman killed by armed dad, who is injured in shootout

 

[wahsben]

It is actually very easy to stop mass shootings.
Draconian restrictions on guns and who can own them. Done.

Actually history has shown us this isn't the way to stop mass shootings. There have been mass shootings in places with draconian gun control laws. Usually by agents of the government, but not always.
The best way is for the innocent to be armed to protect and defend themselves if the need arises.

 

[wahsben]

Also, an anti would say:
Wow, it sure is troubling how many of those mass shooters were on SSRIs. But see, if we ban guns then no one on SSRIs will be able to commit a mass shooting. Problem solved!

Yes, they'd say this or something like this and the reply is Prohibition didn't stop people from getting alcohol, the war on drugs hasn't stopped people from getting drugs. Bans don't work they only create a criminal element that benefits from the ban.

 

[Varmint]

Actually history has shown us this isn't the way to stop mass shootings. There have been mass shootings in places with draconian gun control laws. Usually by agents of the government, but not always.
The best way is for the innocent to be armed to protect and defend themselves if the need arises.

Yup, look at Norway. Simply horrible. We have to stop putting our kids in feel-good gun free killing zones.