Black Guy Tries To Pull Gun On Cops In Chicago: Gets Shot

[Bonesinium]

Stop him? I'd say they had reason to talk to him, no more than that (AFAIK without audio)
Attempt to restrain him? Not sure without the audio. If he was being belligerent, then maybe so. If he was being generally cooperative, then the attempt to restrain was unreasonable.

Agreed...

However, his attempt to flee was an ill-advised over-reaction, at best, and easily seen as threatening, given he was clearly carrying.

Also agreed, though being ill-advised, or an over-reaction, or even seen as threating doesn't mean he is intending to or being a threat. I mean if they weren't cops, there is no way anyone would be arguing his actions weren't reasonable, would there? I don't think that difference is thee difference between totally reasonable and so unreasonable it's acceptable to be killed over.

Draw on him first?

Yes, the cop had his gun out and pointed while the dead guy's was still holstered.

The video did not show any officers with drawn guns before he pulled away and attempted to flee.

I didn't say that.

Given that they were clearly LEOs vs. just an old somebody on the street, and the police did not appear to point a gun at him until he attempted to flee, the situation does not quite fit the presented straw-man in key ways. Regardless that, even in a perfect world, there's right, and then there's dead right. Better to have kept it calm on the street, and killed them in court, figuratively speaking.

Figuratively speaking. Exactly.

Why is it that police are given such broad leeway on the use of force because they have to make split second decisions, yet at the very same time the people they interact with are expected to make absolutely perfect decisions or risk having their lives ended? That is a very extreme discrepancy.

 

[robjax]

Chicago Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson said Harith Augustus, 37, had a holstered semiautomatic handgun tucked into his waistband when officers confronted him on the city's South Side.

Police had sent the handgun and two magazines of bullets for testing, said police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi, who added that Augustus wasn't a known gang member and had no recent arrest history.

Yeah so this guy brought about his own death by over reacting to this situation -- of that there is no doubt.

However, I am not going to condemn him outright and praise the police without a lot more info about what this was all about and what was said. Would be helpful to see the bodycam footage and audio from the cop he was initially talking to.

What was being said between he and the officer that he was talking with before the others walked up and the female officer clumsily tries to grab him.

It has been reported that the initial contact was because they thought he was selling loose cigarettes. A witness said that is why they approached him but what he was actually doing was simply handing a few to a female relative. (Just my opinion but even if he was selling loose cigarettes the only crime in that is against the tax man)

Police admit the guy was not a felon and his only record was three minor arrests more than 10 years ago, all charges dismissed. I have not been able to find a report of what those arrest were for however.

I generally do not count on the Washington Post for anything but if true this frame grab is a very interesting addition to the story...



Guy worked as a barber in the hood.
I can tell you that if I worked in a walk-in store front job where the main method of payment was cash I would want to carry a concealed firearm also.
And I would be able too unless I lived in Rahm Emanuel's Chicago.

Yeah he over reacted and he got shot, I am not going to loose sleep over his stupidity, but it might not be all that cut-n-dry either.

If you defend the 2nd Amendment you got to defend it for everybody.

Just say'n :emoji_tiger:

This^^^^^^^

 

[LuvDog]

Tough to tell exactly what happened prior to this and audio would help.

The video could be spun a couple of ways.

Innocent guy who is carrying concealed is surrounded by cops. How many people here wouldn't be irritated by that circumstance? I know if someone was reaching from behind me for my waistband and holster area, I'd definitely jump and twist and pull my shirt.

I'd like to know what's being said... maybe they are yelling at him to drop the gun or show it, so he's reaching for it to show or unholster? kind of far fetched, but who knows for sure.

On the other side... he's definitely looks like he's trying to unholster... which would make me nervous as a LEO.

I don't think they were unjustified in shooting, since he's reaching for his gun. In those situations, it's a split second decision and if I'm facing off against someone trying to draw on me, then I'm pulling the trigger.

But, why did they stop him to begin with? That's where any one of us would get upset if we were stopped and surrounded just because we were printing or some one thought we looked like we were carrying.

 

[Reptile]

 

[Bonesinium]

I don't think they were unjustified in shooting, since he's reaching for his gun. In those situations, it's a split second decision and if I'm facing off against someone trying to draw on me, then I'm pulling the trigger.

See this is my big problem. And there are two problems really.

1. Cops are given huge leeway in these situations while the people they are dealing with, including people who are not criminals, are given none. Reach down to pull up your pants and cop shoots you? Your innocuous action of pulling up your pants is scrutinized to no end. It's second guessed. It's your fault. You shouldn't have done that. Nobody to blame but yourself. But the cops action to immediate shoot you? Can't second guess that, what if you had pulled out a gun!?!

2. It ignores everything else that happens before, including many times when the only reason things even get to the potential level of someone reaching for a gun is because the police escalated the situation. You could have none nothing wrong. The police could have done everything wrong, violated your rights, attacked you, etc. But the second you try to defend yourself? Now you are wrong and it justifies them to kill you.

It's utterly perverse.

 

[LuvDog]

See this is my big problem. And there are two problems really.

1. Cops are given huge leeway in these situations while the people they are dealing with, including people who are not criminals, are given none. Reach down to pull up your pants and cop shoots you? Your innocuous action of pulling up your pants is scrutinized to no end. It's second guessed. It's your fault. You shouldn't have done that. Nobody to blame but yourself. But the cops action to immediate shoot you? Can't second guess that, what if you had pulled out a gun!?!

2. It ignores everything else that happens before, including many times when the only reason things even get to the potential level of someone reaching for a gun is because the police escalated the situation. You could have none nothing wrong. The police could have done everything wrong, violated your rights, attacked you, etc. But the second you try to defend yourself? Now you are wrong and it justifies them to kill you.

It's utterly perverse.

True and I agree with #2. I want to know what happened before... from what little was shown, I'm not sure why he was stopped to begin with. If the they didn't have a reason to stop him, then it never would have escalated. But if the leading events weren't as innocent, then it's a different story. Way too many unknowns here.

 

[Qjake17]

View attachment 240319

Bullet hole in the bottom of the rear window, not there at .16. Cop nearly killed his partner.

 

[fencer]

Bullet hole in the bottom of the rear window, not there at .16. Cop nearly killed his partner.

When I saw the cruiser pull into view I thought.. " No No No"

I have to wonder though, how stupid do you have to be to try and draw on a bunch of cops? Maybe you are fast enough to clear leather and get a shot off, but there is a very high probability that one of them is going to shoot you. Too much TV.
It's like in the movies when the good guy takes a dozen, straight hard punches to the face and shakes it off. Yeah, it could happen.