Black Powder and the EFA-10

MuzzleDiscipline

NES Life Member
NES Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
639
Likes
808
Feedback: 15 / 0 / 0
So after a 40 year Hiatus I am looking at muzzle loaders again. I am aware that without the presence of power and ball they aren't considered firearms here in the Commonwealth.

It occurred to me once you possess the ammo components and it becomes a firearm is it required to EFA-10 them? Any facts beyond speculation would be appreciated.
@Len-2A Training every have any related experience?
 
No registration. They aren't firearms under MGL and only require a LTC/FID if it has a "modern" ignition system (209 primers).
 
No registration. They aren't firearms under MGL and only require a LTC/FID if it has a "modern" ignition system (209 primers).
Can you provide the mgl or reg that says it requires a ltc or fid if it has 209 ignition system. This is important for upcoming deer season for my family and I have never read that 209 primers mean you need an fid.

This is what I have read

The provisions of sections 122 to 129D, inclusive, and sections 131, 131A, 131B and 131E shall not apply to:

(A) any firearm, rifle or shotgun manufactured in or prior to the year 1899;

(B) any replica of any firearm, rifle or shotgun described in clause (A) if such replica: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade;
 
Last edited:
I can't locate the precise section but all reloading components require a FID as a minimum to possess. 209 primers are made for reloading shotgun shells. They can also be used in certain more modern design blackpowder guns, thus the primers would require a FID or LTC (but not the blackpowder gun itself).

Blackpowder is not my expertise.
 
What if they are 209 primers designed* and labeled for muzzleloaders?
*I don't know if the primers are any different or if it just the label
 
I can't locate the precise section but all reloading components require a FID as a minimum to possess. 209 primers are made for reloading shotgun shells. They can also be used in certain more modern design blackpowder guns, thus the primers would require a FID or LTC (but not the blackpowder gun itself).

Blackpowder is not my expertise.
I've been doing a shit ton of research.....forums.....searched for arrests or charges ever made. Can't find anyone charged in mass with posession of a fire arm without an fid when they were hunting with a front stuffer. I know.....that alone doesn't mean it's legal. This seems to be a other full on grey area in MGL. On the northeast hunting forum I read alot and the most popular consensus is if you have a reason to not be issued an FID and your are actively hunting during hunting season......have the proper hunting license and stamps.......you'll be fine with a modern inline muzzle loader and the popo will leave you alone.

Where that consensus comes from is this paragraph and the word "fixed" ammunition. How they are interpeting it is "fixed" refers to cartridge type ammunition.

Basically you don't need an fid or ltc for:

any replica of any firearm, rifle or shotgun described in clause (A) if such replica: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition;
 
Last edited:
I've been doing a shit ton of research.....forums.....searched for arrests or charges ever made. Can't find anyone charged in mass with posession of a fire arm without an fid when they were hunting with a front stuffer. I know.....that alone doesn't mean it's legal. This seems to be a other full on grey area in MGL. On the northeast hunting forum I read alot and the most popular consensus is if you have a reason to not be issued an FID and your are actively hunting during hunting season......have the proper hunting license and stamps.......you'll be fine with a modern inline muzzle loader and the popo will leave you alone.

Where that consensus comes from is this paragraph and the word "fixed" ammunition. How they are interpeting it is "fixed" refers to cartridge type ammunition.

Basically you don't need an fid or ltc for:

any replica of any firearm, rifle or shotgun described in clause (A) if such replica: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition;
It seams, and this is just my thought process, that the issue is not the muzzle loader itself, it's the 209 primer. The 209 primer is an ammunition component, same as an empty shell would be, possession of which requires a license. So the charge wouldn't be possession of a firearm, it would be possession of ammunition components.
So you research should be, has anyone ever been charged/convicted of possession of ammo components. And you may want to consider the $$$ cost of defending against the charge.... or move to NH where we don't give a sh... [wink]
 
It seams, and this is just my thought process, that the issue is not the muzzle loader itself, it's the 209 primer. The 209 primer is an ammunition component, same as an empty shell would be, possession of which requires a license. So the charge wouldn't be possession of a firearm, it would be possession of ammunition components.
So you research should be, has anyone ever been charged/convicted of possession of ammo components. And you may want to consider the $$$ cost of defending against the charge.... or move to NH where we don't give a sh... [wink]
It's not me I'm researching for. I have everything I need and then some to hunt ma......and nh.

I'm getting brother into hunting and his ltc is a little ways away. I have an inline I can loan him.......


Here's the thing on the 209 primers.....why did they use the words not designed for "fixed" ammunition in the description of exemptions.....I'm reading it (as well as many others on that hunting forum) that fixed refers to cartridge ammo......so if it's not designed for fixed ammo it's exempt from ltc fid requirement. I don't know I f***ing hate this state. I could set him up with a front stuffer that uses old school caps and he'd be ok I assume? It's so stupid ......it's a gun that reloads from the muzzle one round at a time why does mass have all this BS over the type of primer it uses jfc
 
It's not me I'm researching for. I have everything I need and then some to hunt ma......and nh.

I'm getting brother into hunting and his ltc is a little ways away. I have an inline I can loan him.......


Here's the thing on the 209 primers.....why did they use the words not designed for "fixed" ammunition in the description of exemptions.....I'm reading it (as well as many others on that hunting forum) that fixed refers to cartridge ammo......so if it's not designed for fixed ammo it's exempt from ltc fid requirement. I don't know I f***ing hate this state. I could set him up with a front stuffer that uses old school caps and he'd be ok I assume? It's so stupid ......it's a gun that reloads from the muzzle one round at a time why does mass have all this BS over the type of primer it uses jfc
You're still looking at this as about the gun/not-gun. It's not. It's the laws on ammunition, those are the ones you should be looking at.
For purposes of this section, ''ammunition'' shall mean cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun.
So that 209 primer is a clear violation.

Yes these are stupid laws, but this one it pretty clear.
 
You're still looking at this as about the gun/not-gun. It's not. It's the laws on ammunition, those are the ones you should be looking at.

So that 209 primer is a clear violation.

Yes these are stupid laws, but this one it pretty clear.
Guess my brother will have to get a nh hunting license and hunt with me there. He'll he can even borrow a shotgun from me and hunt with me in nh during fire arm season. He's not a felon....and not a fed pp....,..it's an old misdemeanor dui from nh that has his mass licensing officer giving him a hard time. He's got a lawyer to work on his LTC in mass but it's gonna take some time.

He got a non res apprentice hunting license in Maine last winter and hunted hare up there with a borrowed shotgun....totally legal. He just took hunter Ed and wants to hunt but mass is cock blocking him. It's so stupid
 
Guess my brother will have to get a nh hunting license and hunt with me there. He'll he can even borrow a shotgun from me and hunt with me in nh during fire arm season. He's not a felon....and not a fed pp....,..it's an old misdemeanor dui from nh that has his mass licensing officer giving him a hard time. He's got a lawyer to work on his LTC in mass but it's gonna take some time.

He got a non res apprentice hunting license in Maine last winter and hunted hare up there with a borrowed shotgun....totally legal. He just took hunter Ed and wants to hunt but mass is cock blocking him. It's so stupid
he can also get his non-res P&R in NH (and Utah), they don't require an LTC in your home state. they get you some reciprocity and helps with the few places in NH that still require a permit, like on an ATV.
 
he can also get his non-res P&R in NH (and Utah), they don't require an LTC in your home state. they get you some reciprocity and helps with the few places in NH that still require a permit, like on an ATV.
We won't be hunting on an atv 😂

I'll.chat with him today and he'll probably have to pony up the $150 for a non res nh big game license in NH and we'll hunt there. I have some access to nh spots.
 
lawyer will tell you stuff. judge will tell you stuff. you know who you need to ask? the one who's going to jam him on it. that would be your local EPO. figure out who is the patrol for your area and ask them directly. the rest of the answers dont matter if they aren't going to jam you on anything. just my 2 cents.
 
What this world needs is a percussion cap muzzleloader,
with the nipple and cap concealed by the frizzen,
and whose hammer sports a (non-functional) flint -
to make it look like a flintlock to the casual observer.
🎤💧
 
lawyer will tell you stuff. judge will tell you stuff. you know who you need to ask? the one who's going to jam him on it. that would be your local EPO. figure out who is the patrol for your area and ask them directly. the rest of the answers dont matter if they aren't going to jam you on anything. just my 2 cents.

Len is correct, as is 42!

The "primitive firearm" is not a firearm, or long gun, per MGLs
Ammo for a primitive firearm does not require an FID/LTC for possession (though you need one to purchase)
A 209 primer is physically the same as every other 209 primer ( hotter than a "regular" one? maybe. but it could be used in a shotshell), and since components are "ammunition" per MGLs, and DO require an FID/LTC.

A few years back, a guy was jammed up for an accidental shooting on the Cape, and one of the charges was unlawful possession of ammo (the 209 primer), though not for the inline muzzleloader.

The problem with asking the EPO, is that you may be hunting on his day off. [laugh]

OP: Your relative will like NH, or he can get a side-lock muzzleloader.

Good hunting.
 
This is just an observation, but it will provide some context:

Back in the day, the Primitive Firearm season was instituted to make the harvest larger, but more difficult ("more sporting"), just like with a bow. Muzzle-loaders were not the technological wonders that we have now - even if it was rifled, it still shot a round ball.

Then, they came out with faster-twist barrels, for better bullets, sabots, etc., and much of the low-performance went away.

Then they came out with inlines, with scopes, and high-performance ammo that are good, in some cases, to over 100 yards.

So...a good portion of the muzzle-loaders are not in any way primitive, other than one shot

1601431734878.png

If we were not overrun with Bambi and friends, then the game management professionals would probably be restricting them, but a larger harvest is in the interest of all. OK...maybe not the deer that gets capped.

Now, they have breech-loader muzzle-loaders!

 
Back
Top Bottom