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Breaking: Pentagon confirms may COURT MARTIAL SOLDIERS who share Christian Faith
- Thread starter Gidge
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They're there to fight, not to be missionaries. I'd fire anyone who works for me who spent more time trying to convert everyone around him than working too.
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I had a buddy who had "surfer." They made him change it so he put "rastafarian."
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i have an allergy tag that says i'm allergic to bullshit too.it's all in who you know or just get them made off post.
i've seen some pretty funny ones over the years at SRP's.
I had a buddy who had "surfer." They made him change it so he put "rastafarian."
namedpipes
NES Member
Aren't Jehovah Witnesses *required* to actively harass, er, spread the gospel?
Gidge
NES Member
+1
Fr. Charles Johnson (picture below) is a Navy chaplain serving in Afghanistan :
It's not right that Chaplains can be persecuted for doing their job .
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That's not what this is about. This is about individual soldiers who spend more time converting anyone who will listen than working. I had a Mormon platoon sgt once who fit that description. He got kicked out for it back in like 97, long before "Obama hates the Christians OmGZ."
(Nothing against Mormons by the way, I'm just not interested in being one.)
And for what it's worth this applies equally to other religions too. Would you be ok with a Muslim soldier actively working to convert everyone in the barracks? Somehow I doubt it.
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You hit the nail squarely on the head. As long as it is Christians that are proselytizing it's probably okay in some quarters, but if it was a Muslim it would be bad. Let me pose this question: How do some of you feel about Muslim Chaplains (and there are Muslim Chaplains) doing their job? Do you feel that it's not right that they can be persecuted for doing their job? I'll bet some of you would say: "Oh well, that's different because Islam is blah blah...."
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
and therein lies the problem with ALL religions: there are those who profess to have a monopoly on truth and will not tolerate anyone else's beliefs.
Gidge
NES Member
You hit the nail squarely on the head. As long as it is Christians that are proselytizing it's probably okay in some quarters, but if it was a Muslim it would be bad. Let me pose this question: How do some of you feel about Muslim Chaplains (and there are Muslim Chaplains) doing their job? Do you feel that it's not right that they can be persecuted for doing their job? I'll bet some of you would say: "Oh well, that's different because Islam is blah blah...."
“Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil … a forbearance
that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment. Tolerance applies
only to persons … never to truth. Tolerance applies to the erring, intolerance
to the error … Architects are as intolerant about sand as foundations for
skyscrapers as doctors are intolerant about germs in the laboratory.
Tolerance does not apply to truth or principles. About these things we must
be intolerant, and for this kind of intolerance, so much needed to rouse us from
sentimental gush, I make a plea. Intolerance of this kind is the foundation of
all stability.”
Fulton J. Sheen
Jasons is exactly right. This has been an ongoing issue throughout the Military. People have mentioned being asked about their religious beliefs and actions during promotion boards, Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine of the Quarter, etc. These are events that have a MAJOR impact on a person's career. My religious preferences and beliefs have NOTHING to do with my ability to lead my Soldiers.
Ask the USAF Academy grads that came out of the Academy with substandard reviews limiting their career options b/c the leadership didn't feel they were "Christian" enough. IIRC, a number of senior officers had their careers ended for how they treated people that didn't agree with them.
It's not an attack on Christianity, or religion. It's an attack on people who put personal feelings and beliefs ahead of completing the mission! As I once told my Soldiers, "I don't care who or what you worship but do NOT try to force me to believe it or do NOT let it get in the way of what we are trying to do. If you are here to convert people, go join a missionary force, we are an expeditionary force."
Aloha
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I think the problem that most are having here is: a) the consideration of what "proselytizing" is can be open to debate; b) the term is usually applied to Christian denominations which seems to indicate bias; c) there also appears to be a "desire" to target Christian denominations; and d) it is highly unlikely that the rule would be fairly implemented given the strong political correct bent.
These factors seem to indicate to me that the rule would be an unfair restraint on protected speech (granted that those in the military so occupy a special place in that regard). I would be interested if there are any actual studies on the impact of this practice on force moral or is this all anecdotal? I would agree that a normal soldier on duty should be doing his/her job and not asking the guy working on the engine next to him if he's accepted Jesus as his personal savior or if he would like to profess that there is only one God and Mohammed is his profit.
These factors seem to indicate to me that the rule would be an unfair restraint on protected speech (granted that those in the military so occupy a special place in that regard). I would be interested if there are any actual studies on the impact of this practice on force moral or is this all anecdotal? I would agree that a normal soldier on duty should be doing his/her job and not asking the guy working on the engine next to him if he's accepted Jesus as his personal savior or if he would like to profess that there is only one God and Mohammed is his profit.
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There is (or at least was when I was in) a discernible bias FOR "mainstream" Christian religion in the services. For example, we were "encouraged" to recite the Protestant version of he Lord's Prayer every night before bed time at boot camp. Even after bootcamp most large formations were closed with a "non-denominational" prayer.
Is it just me or are there others on NES that are getting tired of people starting threads that are inflammatory, misleading, and outright wrong?
a) Not really. It's asking undue questions about the state of another soldier's faith, especially if it makes that soldier uncomfortable.
b) This thread has, indeed, applied it to Christian denominations because most of the folks who've replied to this thread, and who have personal experiences with this issue, seem to have encountered mostly evangelical Christians doing it. I've got no doubt there are Mormon or Muslim proselytes in the services, but I never met any and I heard from several evangelicals. YMMV.
c) See b). Many here feel (myself included) that there's a decidedly pro-evangelical bent at the middle levels of the officer corps, at least in the Army. In my experience, this issue has been mostly a case of officers doing the proselytizing, not EMs.
d) I'll agree, but not for the sake of "political correctness." Rather, I've known commanders who, I think, wouldn't implement this rule fairly (against evangelicals) because they'd agree with what the soldier was doing.
Remember, we're not talking about chaplains here. We're talking about non-chaplains.
Gidge
NES Member
quoted for truth....
the retards run around, running their mouf's and posting stuff they obviously have the slightest idea... it's good to watch though.
<---- pissed off lifer.
speedy
NES Member
Prosecute the Christians. Sounds biblical to me. The rise of th Muslims, headed by the anointed one. So tired of the political correctness shit. If the Muslims are so fking sensitive, get the fk out of this country. Everywhere they go all they do is bring misery and only want is their way. Like a liberal.
That Guy
Banned
...any part of this thread. At all.
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Shire Guy
NES Member
The devil is in the details. It is the definition of proselytizing, like so many others, that has changed, ie. private conversation between two soldiers. Think DHS equating "expressing patriot beliefs" with "potential domestic terrorist".
StevieP
NES Member
Explain Father Francis John Patrick Mulcahy, then. The world as I know it has changed forever. Next you'll be telling there was no McHale in the navy, nor Pappy Boyington. Up is down. Down is up. Cats and dogs living together... Red pill, please.
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Idk about them, but all media is propaganda in my opinion.
