Breonna Taylor killed in her home by police home invasion?

xtry51

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That report is clear as mud.

It says the officers were using 40s and the bullet was a 9mm. Then it says "but the officer was also issued a 9mm". Ok Shelocks, how hard is it to document what gun he was carrying and/or fired that night? Seems a BIT unlikely he shot himself first and then shot Taylor does it not? Especially given the BF already admitted to shooting first.

Pure f***ing circus.
 
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That report is clear as mud.

It says the officers were using 40s and the bullet was a 9mm. Then it says "but the officer was also issued a 9mm". Ok Shelocks, how hard is it to document what gun he was carrying and/or fired that night? Seems a BIT unlikely he shot himself first and then shot Taylor does it not? Especially given the BF already admitted to shooting first.

Pure f***ing circus.
Yeah the more I read about this, the more I don't know what to believe.
 
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KBCraig

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For that matter, the cops who actually served the warrant should be compensated, too, as long as they weren't the ones who decided to execute a knock-and-announce raid in the middle of the f-king night, except the one never went in and decided it was a great idea to fire blindly into the apartment from outside.
Every cop participating agreed, or at least didn't object, to participate in a raid about which they had no personal knowledge.

If I had my way, every warrant served would require the officer who filed the affidavit to be the first one through the door.
 

meh

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Every cop participating agreed, or at least didn't object, to participate ...
Is that how it works? I mean, I could see it if it was an illegal order, but it was perfectly legal. I guess this is how it was supposed to go:
“Go execute this search warrant on a suspected stash house.”
“Sorry, boss. I don’t don’t do those. I’m just here for the donuts and to champion civil liberties. Ask someone else.”

If I had my way, every warrant served would require the officer who filed the affidavit to be the first one through the door.
Not a bad idea.
 

Mesatchornug

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Is that how it works? I mean, I could see it if it was an illegal order, but it was perfectly legal. I guess this is how it was supposed to go:
“Go execute this search warrant on a suspected stash house.”
“Sorry, boss. I don’t don’t do those. I’m just here for the donuts and to champion civil liberties. Ask someone else.”



Not a bad idea.
Is it a legal order if the no-knock phrasing is basically boilerplate? Shouldn't the guys sent in the call be asking for more information about what to expect so they can complete the search with the best chances of a positive all around outcome?
 

meh

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Is it a legal order if the no-knock phrasing is basically boilerplate? Shouldn't the guys sent in the call be asking for more information about what to expect so they can complete the search with the best chances of a positive all around outcome?
Even if the judge should not have granted it, that doesn’t make it “illegal”.

I wasn’t serious to begin with about compensating them, just saying that they were put at greater risk by their leadership. The counter was that they were willing participants. Willingness is a nuanced matter and is also colored by experience and what they gave been taught. Still seems like a leadership problem to me. Now the guy shooting blind from outside? That sounds like a personal problem to me.
 
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That report is clear as mud.

It says the officers were using 40s and the bullet was a 9mm. Then it says "but the officer was also issued a 9mm". Ok Shelocks, how hard is it to document what gun he was carrying and/or fired that night? Seems a BIT unlikely he shot himself first and then shot Taylor does it not? Especially given the BF already admitted to shooting first.

Pure f***ing circus.
I think the takeaway here is that the original assumption that Walker's one bullet hit the cop isn't necessarily true. That was based on the assumption that Walker had a 9mm and all the cops were shooting .40s. Given that Walker claimined to only have fired a 'warning shot' and that officer Hankison (who appears to have non actually aimed at anything) carried a 9mm, the door is now open to the injured cop being a victum of friendly fire.

Yeah the more I read about this, the more I don't know what to believe.
That level of skepticism is health.
 

xtry51

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I think the takeaway here is that the original assumption that Walker's one bullet hit the cop isn't necessarily true. That was based on the assumption that Walker had a 9mm and all the cops were shooting .40s. Given that Walker claimined to only have fired a 'warning shot' and that officer Hankison (who appears to have non actually aimed at anything) carried a 9mm, the door is now open to the injured cop being a victum of friendly fire.

That level of skepticism is health.
Ballistics should show what direction the hit came from. If the other cop shot him, I'm not sure that changes anything honestly other than the retard cop should be fired and charged for the assualt on the officer.

The first shot still came from inside the house. The gunfight already underway.

On the warrant side, its seems from the jail phone call transcripts Breonna was clearly the accountant for the drug operation, her house was a site for drug handoffs and she was actively storing the money. Under current law thats a valid situation for a warrant.

What was stupid here is the timing to me. If you want to search a house the most logical time is when there are the least number of people there.
 

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Yeah the more I read about this, the more I don't know what to believe.
Louisville sounds like such a First-World <Bleep>hole
that they should just burn it to the ground and start from scratch.
But where are we gonna find someone to d...never mind, they've got that covered.

12:40am no-knock warrant executed by plain clothes officers. What could possibly go wrong?
Were they dressed as hippies?
Because that's a thing.

GOA: H.R. 666 and the Assault on the Bill of Rights
In June of 1971, four BATF officers burst into the home of Ken Ballew. The tragic events which followed show clearly how renegade officers will always try to justify their actions after brutalizing the innocent. Rep. John Dingell (D-MI) explained on the House floor what happened:​
“BATF first entered an apartment upstairs where they held a shotgun at the head of some 8-year-old children. When they found they had raided the wrong place, they then went downstairs, and they broke through a back door in the man’s home. . . . They seized the man’s wife and threw her into the hall in only her underpants. Mr. Ballew was coming out of the shower with a cap and ball revolver seeking to defend his home and his wife against a noisy band of intruders who bore no indicia of their service as law enforcement officers.”​
The result? BATF officers shot Mr. Ballew in the head. If he is still alive today, he is disabled and still partially paralyzed, incapable of speech — and unlike Jim Brady, he has never been available for Congressional testimony.​
After the assault, the officers quickly began justifying their actions. Dingell explains:​
“They [the BATF officers] went outside, still dressed as hippies with beards and in scruffy clothes, and at which time they first put on their BATF armbands to show that they were law enforcement officers engaged in proper exercise of their legal authority, and that they had given proper warning to the individual of their authority which, in fact, they had not.”​

The officers immediately tried to justify their actions. And while Mr. Ballew did not have illegal evidence, this case clearly demonstrates how officers will always want to justify their actions. It’s human nature. At times, they may even be willing to lie.​
“Indeed, the [Ballew raid] was classed as a training exercise,” Rep. Dingell explained. “This whole unfortunate matter was covered up under the aegis of Mr. Connelly, the then-Secretary of the Treasury.”​

What was stupid here is the timing to me. If you want to search a house the most logical time is when there are the least number of people there.
They probably had a hard-on for arresting the occupants
immediately if they did find contraband.

The last thing the cops want is some next-door neighbor
calling Taylor, et. al. while they're out on the town,
"hey, the cops broke in to your apartment"
and that's the last you see of them...
 

namedpipes

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Louisville sounds like such a First-World <Bleep>hole
that they should just burn it to the ground and start from scratch.
But where are we gonna find someone to d...never mind, they've got that covered.
...
I have some friends that live on the outskirts. They no longer go "into town" and are considering moving out the the country.
 
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Under current law thats a valid situation for a warrant.
Is there anyone here even saying they shouldn’t have even been able to get a warrant? It’s not that they had a valid warrant. It’s the way the warrant was served. It was done so in just about, if not in fact, the worst possible way.

Edit: after reading AHM’s post about the AFT dressing up as hippies, that’s probably the worst possible way.
 
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AHM

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Edit: after reading AHM’s post about the AFT dressing up as hippies, that’s probably the worst possible way.
BTW, I was in grammar school when I read the (American Rifleman?)
article(s) on that. So I was done with ATF before I got to junior high school.
 
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Let’s not forget, they didn’t even find anything. If the allegations against her were true, and they hadn’t killed her, doesn’t sound like the warrant search would have netted them much of a case. Which is yet another reason everything about the execution of the warrant was awful. Terrible tactics. Terrible surveillance, if any. Terrible information. Terrible outcome. Terrible handling after the shooting. I’m not sure they did anything positive at all, the more I look into it.

Honestly, given the authority to do so, I bet any random group of NESers could have done a better job if tasked to investigate her.
 

xtry51

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it's late at night and you and your other our asleep. BANG door gets kicked in. WWYD?
I'd shoot. But not a warning shot, and not only one shot. Also I have a number of systems and other people in place to be alerted before anyone gets close to ny house, let alone bangs on a door. And multiple people to apply suppressive fire from multiple locations should lead need to be yeeted.
 

xtry51

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Is there anyone here even saying they shouldn’t have even been able to get a warrant? It’s not that they had a valid warrant. It’s the way the warrant was served. It was done so in just about, if not in fact, the worst possible way.

Edit: after reading AHM’s post about the AFT dressing up as hippies, that’s probably the worst possible way.
I think they should have been able to get *a warrant*, just not a no knock one.

Again vased on current laws, not my FDA abolished dream world where gov can't regulate anything about what you ingest.
 

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The transcripts from that Tatum report are pretty damning to Taylor.

I still think it would easier and cheaper, and save a whole lot of angst, just to legalize all drugs and make them easily available to adults. Then the druggies can voluntarily OD their way to a perfect Darwinian solution.
 
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I don't know what the 'Tatum Report' is, so I don't give it much credibility. Still, some of the information regarding jailhouse transcripts reflects what has been previously reported by the Courier Journal. That said, I'm still a little wary of what the police said they heard on an openly recorded jail phone line. Despite what's in the transcript, there was no money recovered in Taylor's apartment. Of course, maybe the cops stole it.

Irrespective of this information, we know that there are serious problems with the police department and with how this warrant was obtained and executed. There are very powerful actors with a vital interest in putting this back on the victims.

On the other side, Vice Media dropped a couple of bombshells in the last few days including never before seen body cam footage. Apparently SWAT showed up in the aftermath and had some pretty serious concerns with what was going on at the site.

And now, it looks like a member of the grand jury has filed a motion asking for the release of grand jury transcripts and records. The allegation is that the AG used the grand jury to deflect responsibility.
Juror in Breonna Taylor Case Sues for Right To Reveal What Really Happened in Court

Bottom line: This whole thing stinks. The police DID lie on the warrant affidavit. Even if legal, a forced, night entry was not proportional to the offense and risk. Even if justified, the raid was poorly executed by unqualified cops. And, in the aftermath, the scene and involved officers were not properly managed. These are facts and, I think, far out weigh any of the allegations or suspicions cast by the police and AG.
 
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xtry51

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I don't know what the 'Tatum Report' is, so I don't give it much credibility. Still, some of the information regarding jailhouse transcripts reflects what has been previously reported by the Courier Journal. That said, I'm still a little wary of what the police said they heard on an openly recorded jail phone line. Despite what's in the transcript, there was no money recovered in Taylor's apartment. Of course, maybe the cops stole it.

Irrespective of this information, we know that there are serious problems with the police department and with how this warrant was obtained and executed. There are very powerful actors with a vital interest in putting this back on the victims.

On the other side, Vice Media dropped a couple of bombshells in the last few days including never before seen body cam footage. Apparently SWAT showed up in the aftermath and had some pretty serious concerns with what was going on at the site.

And now, it looks like a member of the grand jury has filed a motion asking for the release of grand jury transcripts and records. The allegation is that the AG used the grand jury to deflect responsibility.
Juror in Breonna Taylor Case Sues for Right To Reveal What Really Happened in Court

Bottom line: This whole thing stinks. The police DID lie on the warrant affidavit. Even if legal, a forced, night entry was not proportional to the offense and risk. Even if justified, the raid was poorly executed by unqualified cops. And, in the aftermath, the scene and involved officers were not properly managed. These are facts and, I think, far out weigh any of the allegations or suspicions cast but the police and AG.
I agree with all this.
 

AHM

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Despite what's in the transcript, there was no money recovered in Taylor's apartment. Of course, maybe the cops stole it.
That started to occur to me not too long ago.

Although it would have been an insane mistake,
because it would imply that the sticky-fingered raider
assumed that the killing would get broomed as a good shoot.


And now, it looks like a member of the grand jury has filed a motion asking for the release of grand jury transcripts and records. The allegation is that the AG used the grand jury to deflect responsibility.
Juror in Breonna Taylor Case Sues for Right To Reveal What Really Happened in Court
It normally sucks when a DA leads a grand jury around by the nose,
to emphasize stuff they want to prosecute
Although I gather that's Standard Operating Procedure.

It's worse when a DA won't let a grand jury run away and
indict wrongdoings that they want prosecuted, for the good of the public.
Although I gather that's also Standard Operating Procedure.

But I don't know what's even worse, in abstract -
the potential of a DA blowing smoke at a grand jury,
and then hiding behind the veil of secrecy - "no true bill, hurr-durr",
-or-​
the potential of a politicized grand juror
trying to pierce the veil of secrecy after the fact
as a cudgel against the justice system - rights of the witnesses/suspects be damned.


Each "side" wants me to believe their narrative about what's going on.
Pretty bad when the best likely outcome is that only one side is full of crap.
 
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