Budget AR10 build version 2021

[paul73]

So, it is what i had done yesterday after i saw that LaRue jerked up price of their UU 7.62/6.5CM kits up to $1700 area.
I did want to make an AR10 for a while now, so, here it is what it all came up to with the 12% sale discount on primary arms stuff.

Excluding the scope - this one i will have to assess when i`ll get it. It has mixed reviews so far as i can see, so, i will need to compare it with vortex glass to decide.
But i liked the concept of that 6.5 apollo reticle, if it will work well for 140gr 6.5CM loads i have - it will be very neat.

Primary Arms SLx 3-18x50mm FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS-Apollo-6.5CR/.224V Coupon Code applied - you saved $57.60		$479.99	$479.99 $422.39
Tax	$26.40
Total	$448.79

AR10 upper stuff came to a grand total of about $1033, including $200 precision stock kit which was not necessary and bolt, but, that stock kit had a buffer tube kit included.
The stuff is an aero precision M5 DPMS - should be a solid mid-range boomstick. Build is for the 6.5CM 20", with an idea later to buy a same matching aero m5 16" .308 complete upper.

That is compared to roughly $1800 that a without a doubt superior 22" 6.5CM LaRue UU upper kit with their bolt and trigger would cost. In my case i already had the bolt, trigger and grip in the parts bin, so, the diff is $800. Not clear if it was truly worth it, but, will see. Overall i would never raised a hand to take LaRue apart, but this set will be a work on progress and in time i can swap out barrels the way i will want, keeping core build intact.

Aero .308 BCG was from the gunbroker, bought quite a while ago - now it costs $200.
The stuff below in 262.12 order really was not even supposed to be, as i had a spare larue rat stock already, while not a precision one, it would do fine, so, i did not want to buy anything, and i assumed i had a charging handle too -but upon checking i found out that the .308 handle is gone somehow - it is not in the parts bin no more, go figure. parts kit is also not really needed, but, it is a minor stuff.

Aero Precision AR-308 Charging Handle Coupon Code applied - you saved $2.55		$21.24	$21.24 $18.69
Luth-AR Modular Buttstock Assembly Kit for .308 Coupon Code applied - you saved $24.59		$204.90	$204.90 $180.31
Aero Precision M5 Lower Parts Kit Minus FCG/Grip Coupon Code applied - you saved $5.10		$42.49	$42.49 $37.39
Subtotal	$236.39
Shipping & Handling	$10.96
Tax	$14.77
Total	$262.12

Aero Precision M5 Barreled Upper 6.5 Creedmoor Rifle Atlas R-ONE Black - 20" Coupon Code applied - you saved $71.91		$599.24	$599.24 $527.33
Subtotal	$527.33
Shipping & Handling	$10.96
Tax	$32.96
Total	$571.25

And a stripped lower.

Aero Precision M5 308 Stripped Lower Receiver - DPMS Cut - FDE Cerakote Coupon Code applied - you saved $22.95		$191.24	$191.24 $168.29
Subtotal	$168.29
Shipping & Handling	$10.96
Tax	$10.52
Total	$189.77

 

[paul73]

so the next question will be to find a cheap enough pencil barrel for 7.62/.308 upper that will be at least an 1 moa good, like the Larue PredatAR 7.62 - but they refuse to sell it independently.
I saw only some noveske 16" so far in stock here and there, but they are the heavy ones, i want a pencil one - to have a light carriable AR10 .308 setup.

 

[SKumar]

"Budget" build and you're using all this precision 1MOA high-end gucci ??

 

[paul73]

"Budget" build and you're using all this precision 1MOA high-end gucci ??

it is budget compared to criterion, larue/dd. aero precision m5e1 and m5 family overall is pretty budget, is it not? what is gucci about aero m5? it is a good mid range solid stuff, uppers and lowers that last. their barrels are also usually fine, with some luck may even be close to 1 moa, some people do get good samples, sometimes.

the gucci barrel i may try later is that bsf 6.5cm carbon fiber one. will see. it depends upon how bad/good will the aero barrel be.

 

[daekken]

Tax $26.40
Tax $14.77
Tax $32.96
Tax $10.52

Not a bad project despite the AR-10 being a poor man's FAL.

 

[SKumar]

it is budget compared to criterion, larue/dd. aero precision m5e1 and m5 family overall is pretty budget, is it not? what is gucci about aero m5? it is a good mid range solid stuff, uppers and lowers that last. their barrels are also usually fine, with some luck may even be close to 1 moa, some people do get good samples, sometimes.

the gucci barrel i may try later is that bsf 6.5cm carbon fiber one. will see. it depends upon how bad/good will the aero barrel be.

Aero is gucci. Larue/DD is louis vuitton.
If you want 1MOA, I doubt you'll get that from a 16" barrel. There's a lot of powder to burn in 308.

 

[paul73]

Tax $26.40
Tax $14.77
Tax $32.96
Tax $10.52

Not a bad project despite the AR-10 being a poor man's FAL.

one day washington will burn for it, yep. yet, tax is tax - proud be be taxed up to my eyeballs, just doing my part.

 

[paul73]

Aero is gucci. Larue/DD is louis vuitton.
If you want 1MOA, I doubt you'll get that from a 16" barrel. There's a lot of powder to burn in 308.

i disagree, but, ok. i do not see a $550 complete upper assembly minus BCG/handle to be in a gucci category. it is manageable.

as of FAL - well, to each his own. for now it is not in any plans. i just want something i can play with and swap around parts with minimal regret.

 

[SKumar]

i just want something i can play with and swap around parts with minimal regret.

How about finding a pencil barrel that's 18" with a mid-length gas system? That shouldn't be too front heavy. I've seen rifle-gas on 18" but it's rare and a heavy price (and not pencil). I also wouldn't worry about adjustable gas unless you're suppressing.

 

[paul73]

How about finding a pencil barrel that's 18" with a mid-length gas system? That shouldn't be too front heavy. I've seen rifle-gas on 18" but it's rare and a heavy price (and not pencil). I also wouldn't worry about adjustable gas unless you're suppressing.

i have a 16" 5.56 predatAr larue and it is amazing to handle, very light and easy to handle, so, it was the only driving factor there. it is a solid 3/4 moa barrel, and opens up to 1.5-2 moa after about a dozen or so of fast paced shots, as it heats up. if you space shots apart a bit, of do groups of 2 spaced by 30 sec or so - it maintains accuracy fine.
an 18" pencil barrel would work fine as well, the length difference is negligent. the question is, which one to get, to have good enough precision while keeping minimal weight. as i definitely not going to pay $1800 for a whole predatAr upper in 7.62.

and while it would be nice to have pencil barrel close to 1 moa - it is not really the imperative there. 2 moa would be also more than ok. but going to 3 moa start getting annoying, as that anything else, like a tavor 7 can do fine as well. to stay at 1-1.5 moa while keeping weight under 8lbs with no scope would be perfect.

 

[Mountain]

Why do you want a pencil barrel? IMHO, you should decide if you must have a pencil barrel or if you must have 1 MOA. I'm talking real 1 MOA that is sustainable over multiple shots whether the barrel is hot or cold. A pencil barrel is not really compatible with that- I don't care what the boutique AR companies say or what some basement operator posts on arf-com. If someone has a pencil barrel and has posted pics of multiple targets from 100 yards or more, then maybe I'd believe 1 MOA.

Doubt you will find them in stock, but a Criterion match grade barrel with headspaced bolt would be a good way to go. Get the hybrid chamber that will still allow for chambering 7.62 but tighter than a NATO chamber. Criterion barrels are generally a very good value for match barrels. If you want 1 MOA or better, you will want a match barrel. I strongly recommend a matched bolt for the barrel but a high quality bolt from somewhere like JP Precision would be good as well.

I don't see a 'Premium Series' 308 barrel from Ballistic Advantage, but I have one in 6.5 Creedmoor on my Aero M5 build. With a few different loads it will always shoot sub-MOA and with the best 2 or 3 loads averages around .6 MOA. I've shot a couple random tight groups smaller than .2 MOA. This is a somewhat heavier barrel but well tapered which helps keep the weight from being ridiculous.

After writing the above, I found an article on Pewpewtactical regarding AR 308's. They had an AR-308 (in 6.5 CM) shoot a .69" group. It was with a Criterion Match barrel and factory Sig match ammo. You want MOA or better? Get a match barrel.

Edit- you want an AR308 under 8 lbs and weight is the driving factor? That will take some work and $. If 1.5 to 2 MOA is OK for accuracy, then a quality lighter barrel will do.

 

[paul73]

you want an AR308 under 8 lbs and weight is the driving factor

the only reason fo rme to shoot .308 is on mid-range distances up to 200yds, it will be a tactical/hunting setup only with 1-6x scope and for that i want it to be as light as possible so it would be easier to carry around and shoot standing up, hand held. i saw criterion barrels, and i think i will get for the beginning a usual $539 M5 complete aero upper with their own .308 16" barrel, and will work from there. if their barrel will give me solid 1.5moa - it will end there. cryterion match barrels are quite heavy, but, will see.

i just double checked - the aero stainless steel .308 barrel is at 36oz. for larue i cannot find exact numbers - the 5.56 is at 26oz, so, the .308 should be about 30oz somewhat, and 6oz do not make it the end of the world. aero stainless 416R barrels are not the perfection, but, some folks seem to be getting decent enough samples of them. will see.

my 16" pencil predatAr in 5.56 shoots 1/2 moa just fine, but, it is not a .308. the larue 7.62 16" predatAr shoots 3/4 moa - a lot of people confirm that.

 

[SKumar]

an 18" pencil barrel would work fine as well, the length difference is negligent. the question is, which one to get, to have good enough precision while keeping minimal weight.

My opinion: since precision and weight is a must, 18" barrel, govt profile, mid-length gas, no muzzle brake, 15" aluminum handguard weighing <9oz, magpul flip up polymer sights

Any more weight than that and you'll be schwarzenegger

 

[paul73]

My opinion: since precision and weight is a must, 18" barrel, govt profile, mid-length gas, no muzzle brake, 15" aluminum handguard weighing <9oz, magpul flip up polymer sights

Any more weight than that and you'll be schwarzenegger

as of 18" vs 16" - a 16" aero 416r barrel is 36 oz. a usual 416R 18" is 51oz. a fluted 18" 416R is 46oz.

i did not see aero complete uppers with a fluted 18" barrel in stock in a looong time. i think, realistically, it may be possible to snatch a usual 416R 16" one.
18" length has its benefits, but if it will not be carriable - it defeats the point of building it. it really gets heavy real fast there. the 20" 6.5CM one coming is at 66oz.

 

[SKumar]

i did not see aero complete uppers with a fluted 18" barrel in stock in a looong time.

I think that's your best bet. Just keep searching and be patient. Once you have it your 308 build is all set.

 

[DarkJoker33]

Im going to start a build soon, but not .308

But im also using the golden rule of purchasing for such a thing.

The most important part of a rifle is the barrel and bolt.

Everything after that is aesthetic essentially
Yes there are better than mil spec triggers, but thats a luxury.

Buy once cry once theory will be applied.

 

[Mountain]

Im going to start a build soon, but not .308

But im also using the golden rule of purchasing for such a thing.

The most important part of a rifle is the barrel and bolt.

Everything after that is aesthetic essentially
Yes there are better than mil spec triggers, but thats a luxury.

Buy once cry once theory will be applied.

Golden triangle- barrel, bolt, and trigger. Everything else can be ugly and cheap as hell, so long as it is rock solid. BCG can't be crap, but it does not need to be made of unobtanium either.

Trigger is important for MOA / sub-MOA accuracy. I would not say a luxury, unless you can do one hell of a trigger job on a halfway decent standard trigger.

 

[Noreaster13]

I've been looking at building a M5 in 308 recently
I was looking at the Ballistic advantage BABL308004P barrel, 18" SS in gov profile mod length & weighs 39oz
Just can't find it in stock yet

 

[paul73]

I've been looking at building a M5 in 308 recently
I was looking at the Ballistic advantage BABL308004P barrel, 18" SS in gov profile mod length & weighs 39oz
Just can't find it in stock yet

primary arms got this one in stock now - pew-pew had it in their recommended list.

Faxon Firearms 20" .308 Win Rifle Length Heavy Fluted Barrel

DetailsFaxon Machining engineers and manufactures components that are found everywhere. In theaters of combat, on the ocean floor, in cars, in aircraft, on the ISS, and on Mars. Now, they bring their engineering excellence to bear on providing new and innovative components for the AR-15 platform...

www.primaryarms.com

but i am not so sure, and on forums people say faxon is not that great, or may be it is a hit and miss more often. weight wise - 2.4lb is not too bad.

 

[paul73]

as build progresses forward i decided to stop searching for unicorns and get something for .308 that is still in stock - and replace barrel later, if so will be desired.

sp it will be this - $475
18'' 308 Stainless Straight Fluted WILSON ARMS Barrel - 15'' M-LOK Rail - Stainless Competition Muzzle Brake - AR10/LR308 Rifle Upper Assembly
UA30818SS10HC24M_15ML00_CB_WA
Upper Receiver Pattern: LR308 Stripped Upper Receiver, DPMS Low Profile, Billet, Black, Muzzle Device (5/8x24): 5/8 x 24 Competition Muzzle Brake, Stainless

18'' 308 Stainless Straight Fluted WILSON ARMS Barrel - 15'' M-LOK Rail - Stainless Competition Muzzle Brake - AR10/LR308 Rifle Upper Assembly

18'' 308 Stainless Wilson Arms - 15'' M-LOK Rail - A2 Flash Hider - AR10/LR308 Rifle Upper Assembly

ar15parts.com

 

[SKumar]

That's perfect. 18", stainless and fluted, rifle-length gas, 6 port muzzle brake, under $500. Can't beat it. You're good to go

 

[paul73]

And, finally, a range report.
I have completed both builds about a month ago, but did not have time to try it. Here they are. Scope excluded the upper one - .308 carbine with 18" wilson barrel ended up under $1k, that is not bad for this state and year, i think.

 

[paul73]

So, first the .308. the barrel is light, and shows all the consequences of being light. .308 heats it like hell, after 20 rounds of medium paced fire it was extremely hot. and groups do open when it`s hot. it was all shot with tula 147gr .308, which is not match grade. round target at step 4 shows how spread went out. after step #1 i adjusted scope, then did #2, then set turrets to 0 and did #3 and #4.
it also helps little that i have 1-6x scope on it, it is not exactly helpful to do MOA groups at 100yds, but overall it works fine.

after barrel cooled down i tried again - and it was a bit better. still, for a budget .308 with an 1-6x scope with a 100yds plinking purpose - just fine, and hits 8" plate fine and reliably.

 

[xtry51]

What kind of ammo?

 

[paul73]

the 20" 6.5CM was working a bit better. on step 2 i adjusted elevation after low 5 shots, then 3 went up. looking at 3, 4, 5, 6 steps it also can be seen how group slowly opens up, but, overall rifle is fine. it is not a bergara, but, for a basic stock aero precision upper with its in-house 20" 6.5CM barrel, all for $527 - not too bad.


so, the shots were done here with federal 123gr 6.5CM which i do not like - i also shot with 140gr S&B that groups a bit tighter but not too different.

the Primary Arms SLx 3-18x50mm FFP scope was very good. for $422 - even excellent. I was concerned how it will work at 200 and 300 yds - it was perfect, and the reticle notches were spot on for 140gr ammo at 200 and 300yds.
123gr bullet was going a bit higher than notches on the reticle but hitting 10" plate from 300yds was a breeze, and contrast was great, all worked well.

 

[paul73]

What kind of ammo?

in .308 i took wolf 145gr and PPU 150gr. the latter, very surprisingly, started acting up when rifle got hot - was not feeding well in, and i think it was melting the tip of the bullet - it has an exposed lead tip there, and it started to spread wildly as well. at 50yds with the ppu it went into the same hole - before i moved to 100yds.
but, again, i got it really hot, as i was shooting non stop. so i pretty much worked with wolf only and it had no issues, cycled fine, ejected fine, fed fine. go figure.
i am still waiting for better brass .308 ammo to arrive - will see then, but, frankly, with a 1-6x scope it is a mute point, so i will probably keep it all as is.

 

[paul73]

also as i did not shoot in 2-3 months it also shows, especially looking as 6.5CM group 6 some shots went off to the left - it is all me, not the gun. need to get out more and practice more.
anyway, a 6x scope after 10x and 18x is not what works too well for my eyes anymore at 100yds.

 

[xtry51]

Those are good groups for that ammo in the $ gun.

 

[paul73]

Those are good groups for that ammo in the $ gun.

i can say - i am quite satisfied with how cheap steel .308 tula grouped, and going forward i will stock it up.
and even more satisfied with the way rifles worked - no issues with gas, no issues with cycling, it just took off and went on like it should. it was just weird not to have any .308 gun in the collection, but, to be frank, i do not see it to be used very often.
i have 2-3 orders yet to come, from CMP and from other retailers, so should have several more brands of .308 to try out, will see which one will work the best with that wilson barrel.

 

[paul73]

i finally got to zero that $475 .308 wilson upper with a 3-18x PA scope. it gave quite a headache to find the .308 ammo that worked for it fine, and still kinda puzzles me with what happens with its groups, but i get to conclusion that it is probably just me not handling the recoil consistently enough.
some 150gr ammo i had had horrible groups no matter what - not me, it is that 'ppu rifle line' purple box thing 2 posts above.
the wolf 145gr was ok-ish, then i had some turkish 149gr 'precision' rounds that are on the screenshot below as '149gr'.
somehow it kept doing 2 separate groups 2 inches apart twice on me, with first shots getting closer to center and last ones to move to the right.
then in the end i got 10 rounds and extra carefully did that last group on right left low that somehow also shows like a 2 subgroups of 4 with 2 fliers.
the trigger is 4.5lb - may be i press on trigger too much there, i did not do enough precision shooting on a gas platform, need to work on that, but, go figure.
still, that wilson barrel on the el-cheapo upper seems to be more than adequate for the $475.



PS. i also did test 175gr CMP .308 ammo - it is superb, groups better than 149gr but drops lower - obviously, and somehow goes 2-3" more to the left.