Bullet Casting & Coating MegaThread

Smelted these down with some range lead this morning. As an FYI, don't add your old skimmings/dross from past sessions thinking that THIS TIME you can smoosh the dirt out and reclaim more lead and tin. @Michael J. Spangler makes it look easy and I thought I figured it it out this last seminar. Nope!
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If your going to try and recycle your dross do it as its own operation. I will often take my dross when I fill a small metal bucket I have. I do it with a tank thats running low and want it empty. I dont think its really worth the effort. If you feel tour getting a lot of lead/tin in your dross your probably running your pot to hot and getting a lot if oxidization .
 
Soooo coating one went good but I noticed over the weekend that the temps on my oven swing all over the place depending on the day. So I think it’s time to throw a PID into it. It’s a 110v 1500w oven.

Oven

any recommendations on what PID I should buy and drop in. Here are some photos of the inside.

1C4193C6-621E-4499-AAA6-20F2294427E1.jpegDBF8ED6B-06D9-4E58-A265-BB7A254EB9D8.jpeg773CF3F1-D055-4308-80B3-69A779CC2C74.jpeg
 
I know he will be around and will let me know what to order. Amazon has quite a few to choose from and I just want to grab the right one. I also have to order a micrometer to get more accurate readings. I have the pot warming now to pour up some nines for the next round of testing.
 
Thoughts on a newb using a thermometer when smelting for the first time? If so, recommendations on which one to get?

Intention would be to stay below the vaporization temp and also stay below the zinc melting point.

if no thermometer, how do you guys monitor that?
 
Thoughts on a newb using a thermometer when smelting for the first time? If so, recommendations on which one to get?

Intention would be to stay below the vaporization temp and also stay below the zinc melting point.

if no thermometer, how do you guys monitor that?
How much do you want to spend
Amazon product ASIN B07P8NWH67View: https://www.amazon.com/Thermometer-Thermocouples-50-1300%C2%B0C-Temperature-Measurement/dp/B07P8NWH67/

Amazon product ASIN B092ZLTS4DView: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B092ZLTS4D/


Amazon product ASIN B016EILRBMView: https://www.amazon.com/Display-Digital-Thermometer-TM-902C-Thermocouple/dp/B016EILRBM/
 
Soooo coating one went good but I noticed over the weekend that the temps on my oven swing all over the place depending on the day. So I think it’s time to throw a PID into it. It’s a 110v 1500w oven.

Oven

any recommendations on what PID I should buy and drop in. Here are some photos of the inside.

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Question is what you want to do

If you want to gut it:

Wire the hot side of power into an on/off switch through a 15 amp fuse.

From switch
wire power to the fan, PID controller and SSD
From the other side of the SSD to the heating elements

Wire neutral to the other side of the fan, heating elements and PID controller.

If you want to retain the electronics then you will need to break into the blue wire**** and place the SSD in series (so that it controls both elements) then set the temp on the oven to much higher than what the SSD is set to (475-500).

**** I'm assuming the blue wire is the return for both elements and are hooked together
 
Thoughts on a newb using a thermometer when smelting for the first time? If so, recommendations on which one to get?

Intention would be to stay below the vaporization temp and also stay below the zinc melting point.

if no thermometer, how do you guys monitor that?
So, as a newb as well, I will tell you what I do. Well, I am new at it but in the last 2 months I have casted thousands of 9mm in 2 different molds.

My lead process is to sort the wheel weights prior to making ingots, I do miss a few but thats ok. I melt my clip on wheel weights (COWW) separate from my stick on (SOWW) because I can mix them later to get the proper BHN for what projectile I'm pouring. I also have a pile of pewter I mix separate for the mix.

my raw wheel weights are melted on my propane stove and if you scoop out the crap as it melts you will never get it hot enough to melt any zinc or steel that gets by you in the sorting process. These are ladled into muffin tins that weight about a pound each when done. I dont even flux at this point.

I then, after experimenting with different blends for hardness, mix it all in my Lee 10 lb pot and pour more 1 lb ingots with a specific BHN, this mix is fluxed in the Lee pot with borax. Now I have clean ingots ready for casting. I also flux one last time when I am actually pouring bullets.

I may actually get a thermometer for the pot but I have figured out how to run it to keep the lead at the right temp. Its a dance between the lead temp and the mold temp. I actually got 2 different 9mm molds and run them both at the same time, 2 pours each, then switch, keeps the molds at the right temp if your hustling. I can do about 800 an hour when I'm on cruise control and are all set up.

I think I have been at it for 2 months, took about 1 month to get set up with equipment, but I now have 2500lb raw wheel weights waiting to be sorted, 350 lb pre mixed ingots at BHN of 11. I have over 150lb of COWW ingots. I have about 3000 finished bullets and over 2000 projectiles I just powder coated today.

One of my biggest issues was my powder coating temp, I had a thread asking some case gauging questions and after some research I realized I was powder coating at a too high of a temp and was warping/deforming bullets ever so slightly but enough they were not casing properly, I solved that issue by hijacking the wifes stove and tossing my toaster oven! Now I can powder coat 4 batches in continuous session. If you like YouTube stuff check out Elvis Ammo, this guy is awesome and has been doing it for many years. I reached out to him when I had my issue and he responded within the hour and we solved my issue pretty quick.

Hope some of this help, not an expert but this is working for me. Take really good notes and label everything.

20210902_135555.jpg
 
pdf
So, as a newb as well, I will tell you what I do. Well, I am new at it but in the last 2 months I have casted thousands of 9mm in 2 different molds.

My lead process is to sort the wheel weights prior to making ingots, I do miss a few but thats ok. I melt my clip on wheel weights (COWW) separate from my stick on (SOWW) because I can mix them later to get the proper BHN for what projectile I'm pouring. I also have a pile of pewter I mix separate for the mix.

my raw wheel weights are melted on my propane stove and if you scoop out the crap as it melts you will never get it hot enough to melt any zinc or steel that gets by you in the sorting process. These are ladled into muffin tins that weight about a pound each when done. I dont even flux at this point.

I then, after experimenting with different blends for hardness, mix it all in my Lee 10 lb pot and pour more 1 lb ingots with a specific BHN, this mix is fluxed in the Lee pot with borax. Now I have clean ingots ready for casting. I also flux one last time when I am actually pouring bullets.

I may actually get a thermometer for the pot but I have figured out how to run it to keep the lead at the right temp. Its a dance between the lead temp and the mold temp. I actually got 2 different 9mm molds and run them both at the same time, 2 pours each, then switch, keeps the molds at the right temp if your hustling. I can do about 800 an hour when I'm on cruise control and are all set up.

I think I have been at it for 2 months, took about 1 month to get set up with equipment, but I now have 2500lb raw wheel weights waiting to be sorted, 350 lb pre mixed ingots at BHN of 11. I have over 150lb of COWW ingots. I have about 3000 finished bullets and over 2000 projectiles I just powder coated today.

One of my biggest issues was my powder coating temp, I had a thread asking some case gauging questions and after some research I realized I was powder coating at a too high of a temp and was warping/deforming bullets ever so slightly but enough they were not casing properly, I solved that issue by hijacking the wifes stove and tossing my toaster oven! Now I can powder coat 4 batches in continuous session. If you like YouTube stuff check out Elvis Ammo, this guy is awesome and has been doing it for many years. I reached out to him when I had my issue and he responded within the hour and we solved my issue pretty quick.

Hope some of this help, not an expert but this is working for me. Take really good notes and label everything.

View attachment 534349

Wow. I am super impressed and only 2 months in?! I am going on about 2 years now and haven't even smelted my first batch of range scrap yet! It is starting to pile up though, so I need to get cracking. Smelting pot needs to be welded and I would like to pick up a thermometer to play it safe. Maybe before the snow flies I can try this out.

Any tips on 'hiding' a smelting operation from the neighbors? I live in the burbs and really don't have any cover. I was thinking of maybe setting something up in the garage with a few fans blowing out. Bad idea?
 
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Wow. I am super impressed and only 2 months in?! I am going on about 2 years now and haven't even smelted my first batch of range scrap yet! It is starting to pile up though, so I need to get cracking. Smelting pot needs to be welded and I would like to pick up a thermometer to play it safe. Maybe before the snow flies I can try this out.

Any tips on 'hiding' a smelting operation from the neighbors? I live in the burbs and really don't have any cover. I was thinking of maybe setting something up in the garage with a few fans blowing out. Bad idea?
Thats funny, well not really, but I have that issue. I just bought a house in Vegas, postage stamp lot, plenty of neighbors. The SOWW really smokes at first and the neighbors must think I have a meth lab going! I try to do the dirty work when the wind is blowing and they are not home. I run a fan as well so I'm not right in the fumes. Its really only the wheel weights that smoke and smell due to the crap on them, I actually cast in my attached garage with house door open and fan in garage door, the cleaned ingots dont smell at all. I guess I'm lucky my work is slow, I work from home, salary, I do put in an honest 1/2 hour a day, then its back to making ammo! :)
 
Question is what you want to do

If you want to gut it:

Wire the hot side of power into an on/off switch through a 15 amp fuse.

From switch
wire power to the fan, PID controller and SSD
From the other side of the SSD to the heating elements

Wire neutral to the other side of the fan, heating elements and PID controller.

If you want to retain the electronics then you will need to break into the blue wire**** and place the SSD in series (so that it controls both elements) then set the temp on the oven to much higher than what the SSD is set to (475-500).

**** I'm assuming the blue wire is the return for both elements and are hooked together
I have no problem going with a full gut and what would I have to order for the fuse and a switch? Yes the two blues and a black fan wire are connected together in the bottom right. Huge thanks.
 
Thoughts on a newb using a thermometer when smelting for the first time? If so, recommendations on which one to get?

Intention would be to stay below the vaporization temp and also stay below the zinc melting point.

if no thermometer, how do you guys monitor that?
When I first started smelting lead that was not sourced from the berm. I took known lead alloy and brought it to temp then dialed back the heat until it started to solidify a bit then a slight bump up.
Then I just added more scrap.

after a while I ended ip with a lyman thermo
Then a cheap digital one , i tried my DVMM but the probe crapped out.
After a while you will get a feel for it.

your not going to get a propane burner and cast pot hot enough to “vaporize” any lead.
be more worried about the fumes from the paint/plastic and god knows what else is in or on the lead.
 
Not my primary oven but I threw a PID into a cheap oven and it wasn’t to bad. I just have to configure the PID because it’s overshooting about 20-30 degrees.

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Post your settings
By default the PID uses a 20 second cycle - way too slow for a oven.
I tuned mine to around 5C and no overshoot (but this slows rise time down)
 
Working off my phone right now.
Set heat side proportional cycle to 2 seconds
Anti windup to 60% (from memory)
Under COD menu set DF to zero
You can autotune but hand tuning for a slower response is better to get no overshoot.
 
Set I and D to zero
DecreasevP (slowly) until it oscillates near your setpoint WITH a representative amount of bullets in the oven.
Back off P by 25%
Start with the default I and adjust until PV hits SV with 10-20 degrees of overshoot
Adust D to reduce overshoot.

It takes a while to do this - easier to autotune then hand adjust
P - gets you to your setpoint fast but will oscillate if too high.
I - gets you the rest of the way to your setpoint but oscillate if too high
D - counteracts fast change in the error reducing overshoot and allowing higher P and I values to speed up response. Will cause things to oscillate horribly if too high
 
With I = 1 (no zero) and d =0 I tried

p=10 , 100, 1000, 5500 and 8500 and they looked to be about the same. With the p=10 it started to work at the SV and as the temp dropped it turned on and was at full power at 2 degree below SV. It slowed as it approached SV and turned off at SV. The problem is it overshot by 30 degrees in all cases.

im going to set the PID = 10 and increase I in 1000 increments to see if I can lower the overshoot.
 
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