I have nor really figured out the best temp... last run I did not try to warm up the ignot mold and used laddle I found to fill them. The laddle fills a little light but thats ok.
What do you run your smelting pot at?
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Bullet Casting & Coating MegaThread
- Thread starter 38ExtraSpecial
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What do you run your smelting pot at?
Jay77
NES Member
I loaded up my first 8mm yesterday and took them to the range yesterday. Got a little lead on the muzzle. Shot 5 with GC and 5 without. Need to shoot more to determine what load works best.
Broc
NES Member
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They look great.
Jay77
NES Member
Thanks!! I loaded and shot another 20 and I still need to tune. Over the chrono they were coming in around 1800 FPS. I still have to tune for accuracy but it nice to be able to crank out rounds on demand. I had a little bit of lead on the crown but this gun could use a few serious scrubs cause it’s Milsurp. Loving the 200 grain 45 SWC. I’ll share a target when I free up some space in my iPhone.
I didn't have the hotplate turned up high enough so I was running just hot enough to get past oatmeal. I was rushing and using the propane torch to speed things up so I didn't notice the low temp setting on the hot plate.
I usually smelt somewhat north of 700 but that's with my welded up ingot mold - Once I get ready to smelt up some more, I'll try a few known temps and see where they pour well.
That almost looks like your catching a burr at the very end of your crown. Do you have any bore brite or a bore cleaner with a mild ebrassive?
When smelting and pouring ignots I generally dont bother heating the ignot molds.
I might pre heat the redneck gold molds up to higher temp to get some nice clean ignots to have a few look good.
I usually heat my molds until they frost and clear - drives off any moisture
Have seen some boil off from a cold mold but never anything that came close to a steam explosion.
Have seen some boil off from a cold mold but never anything that came close to a steam explosion.
i just place thwm around the burner they get glove hot at best.
About to do a alloy blend before the heat comes.
Adding 2% tin to some tinless alloy I have.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akuSu1KfPnE
Adding 2% tin to some tinless alloy I have.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akuSu1KfPnE
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do you see any leading in the rest of the bore? usully leading at the muzzle is lack of lube.
Jay77
NES Member
They were coated with Hi-Tek and I need to give it a cleaning to see if there is any leading. It could definitely use a good scrubbing.
Jay77
NES Member
Yup there was some leading at around the last 1/3 of the barrel. Here is my target from the other day. First 4 shots were 200 grain SWC and the the last 3 were 230 FMJ. From about 22 yards. I use fancy targets.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
What alloy? It could be stripping.
I try not to compare bullets with out cleaning the bore between changes or at least 8-15 fouling shots.
I find a load and stick with it a long time.
As for the surplus rifles, Im not sold on the coatings to take the place of a good lube or gas check where bullet is designed for one.
My K98 bore was dark and warn it took about 100 rounds of cast to get the bore nice and seasoned. No leading to date and I have about 450 rounds through it with out a cleaning.
I do bore swipe it after ever range trip. Wet patch let sit few minutes , few dry patches, final wet patch before going back into safe. I dry patch it before shooting again.
I have a new to me arisaka I plan to shoot cast through and see how the bore holds up. Its pretty rough even for a chrome bore
I have no excuse now to forget what ignot is what alloy
100lbs of the stuff now
Sn 2% Sb 2.6% Pb 95.3%
im pretty much squared away now with all my alloys casted into ignots and labeled. All I really need is something like Rotometals super hard and I can make almost any alloy
this 100lbs 2/2.6/95.3 alloy Will give me 3000 plus bullets should keep me busy for a while. I tested this alloy and it comes in at 10-11 bhn air cooled, 14 Bhn quenched and 20 Bhn heat treated ....tested 2 weeks after
Covers a lot of ground
I have my 50/50 Wheel weight/soft mix for pistol and plenty of straight wheel weights for anything else.
Will cast up some flat nose ranch dogs for the 1903a3 for next cmp match
100lbs of the stuff now
Sn 2% Sb 2.6% Pb 95.3%
im pretty much squared away now with all my alloys casted into ignots and labeled. All I really need is something like Rotometals super hard and I can make almost any alloy
this 100lbs 2/2.6/95.3 alloy Will give me 3000 plus bullets should keep me busy for a while. I tested this alloy and it comes in at 10-11 bhn air cooled, 14 Bhn quenched and 20 Bhn heat treated ....tested 2 weeks after
Covers a lot of ground
I have my 50/50 Wheel weight/soft mix for pistol and plenty of straight wheel weights for anything else.
Will cast up some flat nose ranch dogs for the 1903a3 for next cmp match
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Nice work! I use almost that same alloy (about 3% Sn) for all of my quenched bullets and cut it 50/50 for all of my Lubed or coated pistol bullets that don’t require heat treat. Works like a charm. I’ve hear it expands well in hollow points above 850 or so.
I do have some MP 454-200 HP that I loaded a little warm in the 45 Colt to test out that theory.
Jay77
NES Member
The alloy I’m using is 2.5-3% SB. Should I throw in some SN into the pot and cast some 8mm and some 3.12’s? I have plenty of pewter I picked up before I started.
Next question .... does the diameter go up slightly after you cast and coat and let the bullets sit a while. Reason I ask is I casted/coated the 8mm a while back and when I GC’d and sized a few weeks ago they seemed smaller. I GC’d and sized the same lot the other day and the coating seemed thinner after going through the Lee sizing die. Could just be me and the lighting in the room but I figured I would ask. Some reason a little lead in the Milsurp doesn’t bother me as much as my 1911.
Awesome video by the way.
Next question .... does the diameter go up slightly after you cast and coat and let the bullets sit a while. Reason I ask is I casted/coated the 8mm a while back and when I GC’d and sized a few weeks ago they seemed smaller. I GC’d and sized the same lot the other day and the coating seemed thinner after going through the Lee sizing die. Could just be me and the lighting in the room but I figured I would ask. Some reason a little lead in the Milsurp doesn’t bother me as much as my 1911.
Awesome video by the way.
your cast bullets can vary in size for sure , even casting temp/Mold temp can play games with the drop size. Im sure there are some variations of shrink/growth going on as it cools, ages, cures or what have you.
I would say if your happy with how your 8mm are dropping and your not trying to push them at higher pressure and velocity save your pewter for when you really need it.
I dont coat so I cant say anything about how that effects size. I tend to cast , lube/size and load with in a few days then let the bullets age while in the neck of the brass.
Lead will age harden or soften over time depending on alloy but how much it really effects your end use is hard to say.
I dont really need hard bullets, only time I bump hardness is if the bullets are getting damaged while feeding into the chamber
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
I don’t think size changes as they sit and age. Hardness will.
Was it the same casting batch in both sizing sessions? Just more time I’m between sizing?
Pewter won’t do much for hardness. I would water drop the bullets after the last coat. That should harden them up plenty and hopefully help the little bit of leading.
I know that compounds like cerocast do exhibit dimensional change as the age
I don't believe lead alloys exhibit the same phenomena or at least don't to the same extent.
However, I have had some bullets that I cast, coated and sized in one day measure a few tenths over a few weeks later. I haven't noticed this with bullets that aged before sizing.
I also didn't find much on dimensional stability during precipitation hardening of lead antimony alloys (I also didn't deep dive so there may be data out there)
I don't believe lead alloys exhibit the same phenomena or at least don't to the same extent.
However, I have had some bullets that I cast, coated and sized in one day measure a few tenths over a few weeks later. I haven't noticed this with bullets that aged before sizing.
I also didn't find much on dimensional stability during precipitation hardening of lead antimony alloys (I also didn't deep dive so there may be data out there)
Jay77
NES Member
Thanks for the tips. I’m going to shoot the rest on hand and try to address the leading on the next batch. I think I only have 50-100 to load up and shoot. I casted and coated these a while ago.
Hope they do well I tried Unique and did not get good accuracy until over 12 grains. Lots of fouling along the case with lower charges
So far for me with all the cast bullets in the 30 cal family of rifles accuracy comes between 1500-1900 fps with
Water quenched wheel weight alloy gas checked and 2500 or LLA
One load with unique that was just fun for 50 yard gallery shooting
Lyman 130 gn plain base 10 grains unique ——might be 1500fps? Never tested it. Great soda can blaster
Jay77
NES Member
I loaded up some more with 25, 26, and 27 grains of IMR-4198 and after about 20 rounds I did have a band of lead on the crown. 25 grains was the most accurate but with the leading that might not be fully the case. I did reduce the crimp a bit in hope that I was stripping off some of the coating. Since I’m using the Lee .323 sizing die I was thinking of trying to increase the diameter to .324 to see if that helps and/or reduce the load a bit. Hoping to find some time today to cast some more .323 and some .312 to start playing with.
So, is the coating coming off, or you're getting leading, in both .45 and rifle loads?
Jay77
NES Member
I cleared the issues with my pistol rounds working on some rifle loads now.
38ExtraSpecial
NES Member
Scored a couple cool tools.
An old Ideal 358432. 158 (IIRC) grain button nosed wadcutter single cavity mould with handles in the box.
A Lyman 310 tong tool in 22 Hornet. So now I need to buy a 22 Hornet rifle.
Last but not least a cool old Colt’s Patent combination mould for a 36 caliber black powder revolver. This one was in pretty awesome condition considering the age. I read that there were a few variations over the years but I haven’t dug too deep in that yet. I’m going to venture a guess that these were most if not all pre 1900.
An old Ideal 358432. 158 (IIRC) grain button nosed wadcutter single cavity mould with handles in the box.
A Lyman 310 tong tool in 22 Hornet. So now I need to buy a 22 Hornet rifle.
Last but not least a cool old Colt’s Patent combination mould for a 36 caliber black powder revolver. This one was in pretty awesome condition considering the age. I read that there were a few variations over the years but I haven’t dug too deep in that yet. I’m going to venture a guess that these were most if not all pre 1900.
sounds like your bullets are to small.
Sizing to .323" I run my 8mm mauser as cast and have a .325" sizer to seat the gas checks.
Maybe try a softer alloy to get better obturation ?
What alloy are you using IMR 4198 does not produced a lot of pressure.
Im curious , do you have traditional bullet lube ? Maybe lube some of your coated bullets and see if the leading goes away?
Cast bullet alloy's and bullet obturation
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