buying a lot with activity and use limitation and changing it

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Olympus Racing, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Olympus Racing

    Olympus Racing NES Member

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    I am in the process of purchasing a lot which has contaminated soil due to oil spill in the past. the building that was on the lot has already been removed. I am attaching the notice of activity and use limitation. Anyone know what it would take to make this lot regular and buildable again? Would adding soil on top of the "bad" soil in order to get around the 4ft rule work? Would I have to remove and replace the polluted soil? Any advice in regards to this is welcomed.

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  2. new guy

    new guy NES Member

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    If you're already in the process of purchasing it, in your words, why the hell aren't you putting this question to your own lawyer?
     
  3. Fixxah

    Fixxah NES Member

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    Do you actively seek trouble or does it chase you down?
     
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  4. ToddDubya

    ToddDubya NES Member

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    Unless it's a smoking deal, I wouldn't buy it. EPA or state level EPA is going to make it cost a fortune to clean up.
     
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  5. 42!

    42! NES Member

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    Pretty sure you'd have to hire someone licensed to deal with hazardous waste. Years ago, and I'm sure the regulations are more strict now, there was a gas station that had a leaky tank. They had to dig out the contaminated soil and leave it on-site for years, and Clean Harbors had equipment pumping water through the ground and filtering that for years.

    A better example might be when a large number of houses in Framingham and Natick had in ground oil tanks leak. They had to live with huge poles of soil covered in tarps for years because regulations didn't allow them to remove the toxic waste.

    What I'm getting at is, it's not a pretty picture.
     
  6. Jason Flare

    Jason Flare NES Member

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    But it and don’t pay the taxes on it. The city will never take it from you.
     
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  7. Spanz

    Spanz NES Member

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    the first step is to evaluate how much it is contaminated, and where it is contaminated.

    If it is just the top five feet of soil in a contained area....they dig it up, throw it into a furnace like thing, and out the other end comes out clean soil.

    IF it has seeped down to the ground water, and has formed a traveling plume....it might literally take millions of dollars to fix it. and being the new owner...guess who the EPA sends the bill to?

    can you buy this by first forming a corporation, instead of privately, if you have to have it? that way if the later turns out to be true, you just declare bankruptcy.
     
  8. Climbnsink

    Climbnsink

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    Run. It might be a good deal, if you know the ins and outs of dealing with contaminated lots. If you don't and you wouldn't be asking us if you did, you could end up with something expensive that you can't even give away.
     
  9. qqac

    qqac

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    If you are set on buying it, find a good lawyer -- a bankruptcy lawyer.
     
  10. Woodstone

    Woodstone NES Member

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    Just PM'd you.
     
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  11. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie

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    This was the Westhersfield area of Natick. Homeowners had bills in the $100K-$200K range for the cleanup.

    The problem with toxic waste is once it's an "on the record" cleanup, there is blank check (yours) and cleanup is done without any consideration to cost. And, it gets worse. If you pull an in ground tank, you are required to have the soil tested, so the state can determine if you have to spend $100K+ for a cleanup.

    The deed restrictions seem to be about limiting disturbance of the pollution. I would not advise you talk to an attorney, because my advice would be to walk away from the deal.

    There was a chemical leak at a company across 495 from the Hopkinton club. Decades later we still have monitoring wells on our property that are checked once to twice a year (we keep coming up clean) at the expense of the chemical company for that long ago spill. Contamination is the gift that keeps on giving.
     
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  12. swatgig

    swatgig NES Member

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    Who foots the bill when the gubmint changes the rewels and says now it has to be tested daily?
     
  13. NickLeduc

    NickLeduc NES Member

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    I can't wait for the "I purchased a contaminated lot, how do I sell it" thread.

    Seriously, you do not want to deal with clean up like this. I have a friend who works in the well drilling field and he still gets court dates to be a witness for well water issues from a ExonnMobil spill that happened 28 years ago. (1990)
     
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  14. TLB

    TLB

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    Plenty of properties with AULs have value and can be developed. The AULs come after whatever cleanup was required under the MCP (assuming this was in mAss). Find a local LSP and discuss your plans for the land. Just reading the AULs should give you a good idea, too. If you don't understand any of these acronyms, you need to.
     
  15. TLB

    TLB

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    Glanced at the docs....talk to an LSP. You need to know what extras you will be paying to do your planned construction work under the MCP, along with any systems (i.e. subslab depressurization?) and ongoing O&M required, etc, etc.
     
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  16. Asaltweapon

    Asaltweapon NES Member

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    You are playing in a very expensive arena.

    I have direct knowledge of this. Unless you got major coins falling out of your ass you will lose it.
     
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  17. ThePreBanMan

    ThePreBanMan

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    The saying is true that there's an ass for every seat.
     
  18. greencobra

    greencobra NES Member

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    best thing you could do is walk away.
     
  19. Waher

    Waher NES Member

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    Walk away from the deal. CERLA is nothing the average homeowner wants to deal with. Unless you a large landlord or developer the headache is not worth the headache or within your capabilities.
     
  20. rocket500

    rocket500 NES Member

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    Lots of good advice here. As the new owner you will own that contamination and the bills associated with the cleanup, if .gov ever seems one necessary. As previously mentioned the cleanups are done with no regard to cost.

    Minimally you’d want to speak with an LSP and an experienced attorney before proceeding.
     
  21. dingbat

    dingbat NES Member

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    The fact that you are asking this question here indicates that you have no idea how much trouble you could be getting yourself in to.

    DO NOT BUY this property until you consult an LSP and attorney like others have suggested and you know exactly what you are getting yourself on the hook for and what specifically you will and will not be able to do with the property. Even a small groundwater remediation situation is a shitshow.

    Also, "oil spil" can be a hundred different things too. Some pretty benign, others loaded with toxic additives. Do you know what the oil is?
     
  22. Prepper

    Prepper NES Member

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    Down in New Ipswich, NH there's a lot that used to have a gas station until recently, with buried tanks of course. I guess they did stuff to remove the tanks and "clean it up" (they had weird remediation contraptions on the property for a while) and there's some kind of for sale auction sign on it. The sign has been there for quite a while now. I just laugh... that'll never sell. NFW would I take that for free. Plus, it is one ugly lot.
     
  23. Fixxah

    Fixxah NES Member

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    Just take out a second mortgage and check the Superfund Cleanup Site website and buy one of their parcels real cheap.
     
  24. TLB

    TLB

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    Frankly, there are a lot of chicken little type bad generalizations in this thread. The cleanup is done to a sufficient degree for the state. You don't get AULs without that. Yes, things need to be done a certain way going forward to maintain No Significant Risk. Someone needs to review and interpret the reports for you and you need to make sure you are getting a discount on the acquisition since there are AULs.

    I'm hoping you are planning rentals or commercial space on this lot because as you can see from this thread, sales can carry a stigma. Removing AULs is probably cost prohibitive or they likely would have done it already.
     
  25. fencer

    fencer NES Member

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    Man... what are you thinking?
     
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  26. cbrxx

    cbrxx NES Member

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    It sounds like they set that wording up to allow for a 4ft dig for a foundation, and any deeper excavation requires proper handling of the contaminated soil.
     
  27. zboys

    zboys

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    Olympus, And I thought you were a smart man.
    DONT DO IT.
    It is basically contaminated forever, trying to get a clean bill on a contaminated lot won't happen. My family has a lot that we're stuck with, it's stagnant now but when my mother passes it is going to open up again when the state will attach her estate.
    They come by and retest every couple years and although it appears clean they will not claim as such.
     
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  28. andrew1220

    andrew1220 NES Member

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    Being an EPA contractor, I would recommend not buying this unless you have tons of money to blow. I think you could remove the AUL if you hired a LSP and excavation/disposal contractor to remove the contaminated soil and then test the soil to show that it's clean? But depending how extensive the oil spill was, that could cost A LOT of money and you might be opening a can of worms since you'll now be the responsible party (owner) for the contamination. Could migrate off site and go in the groundwater etc.

    I have a site in Danvers that has arsenic contaminated soil in a residential neighborhood that we're (EPA, DEP, and EPA contractors) are cleaning up. The contamination is in the top 3 feet and we're excavating down to a maximum of 3 feet, then I screen/test the soil at the bottom of the grid and ensure it's below the cleanup standards. After which we backfill with clean soil.

    Been at it since July, shutdown last month for the winter. Up to ~4,200 tons of soil that has been excavated with probably another 4,000 tons left to excavate this year...

    So it gets expensive real quick is what I'm trying to say. Granted the work we're doing is being paid by all of us taxpayers but if EPA/DEP wasn't stepping in to cover the costs, this would be very overwhelming and expensive for the average homeowner....
     
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  29. Asaltweapon

    Asaltweapon NES Member

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    Really?
    What banks will lend money for the site?
    I personally know the players for the New Balance World Headquarters site that was contaminated.
    I am also well aware of a local store that had and still has issues as does the neighbors over well water contamination.

    Sure. It can be done. You can do anything with enough cash because getting any lending without a fist full of it is going to be tough.
     
  30. PaulR

    PaulR NES Member

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    I'm ranking this thread up there with the guy that said he was representing himself in his divorce.
     
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