Buying an AR 15 from non LTC holder

Hmmm...two FUD (not Fudd) questions:
  1. Does Federal law permit the sale of a longarm to an out-of-stater who cannot legally possess it in (all of) their states of residence, if they intend to store it someplace else - not the state(s) of residence where they can't possess it? I.e., is there a "Bass Pro: sell me the Scary Black Rifle and I'll keep it in my friend's ski chalet" loophole? (I can believe that law might only apply for FFL-to-individual transfers; that's not the point). ((Note my use of the plural to account for Federal snowbird support)).
  2. How does the above law (or loophole) apply to individual/estate-to-C&R FFL transfers?
Just asking if you know offhand.
Not demanding you do the research that I obviously haven't done.

The federal law states that a dealer can sell a long arm to someone from a different state provided the gun is legal for that person to own in their home state. There's no 'friend's ski chalet' loophole.
 
The responsibility is on the seller not the buyer. Assuming it is not Mass defined as an assault weapon, you can buy them from the estate and do personal registration. No laws are broken.
 
If the AR is preban (like pre 9/94, not pre 7/20/16 ShitHealy fake ban, pre healy is a fake designation) any shop that isn't shit should transfer it to you. Bring the executor, the gun to an FFL and as long as they have a drivers license or valid ID that's all that matters.

The rest of the shit, if it's C&R eligible can be sucked directly into your books.
 
Hmmm...two FUD (not Fudd) questions:
  1. Does Federal law permit the sale of a longarm to an out-of-stater who cannot legally possess it in (all of) their states of residence, if they intend to store it someplace else - not the state(s) of residence where they can't possess it? I.e., is there a "Bass Pro: sell me the Scary Black Rifle and I'll keep it in my friend's ski chalet" loophole? (I can believe that law might only apply for FFL-to-individual transfers; that's not the point). ((Note my use of the plural to account for Federal snowbird support)).
  2. How does the above law (or loophole) apply to individual/estate-to-C&R FFL transfers?
Just asking if you know offhand.
Not demanding you do the research that I obviously haven't done.
If you legitimately own/rent in 2 states, and can prove that residency to the satisfaction of the FFL, you can buy said scary black rifle in the 2nd state and keep it there. As an example, I'm currently a dual resident and can buy a brand new, fully featured AR in NH and keep it here, no problem. I just can't bring it back to my MA home due to the MGL AWB.
 
If you legitimately own/rent in 2 states, and can prove that residency to the satisfaction of the FFL, you can buy said scary black rifle in the 2nd state and keep it there. As an example, I'm currently a dual resident and can buy a brand new, fully featured AR in NH and keep it here, no problem. I just can't bring it back to my MA home due to the MGL AWB.
Yahbut what if you own in FL and MA, and are visiting NH on vacation?
And what if you own in CA and MA, and are visiting NH on vacation?
 
Wherever they are located at the time of purchase! Per Fed Law.
Where are they "located" if they are visiting Hooksett while flying from Lowell to Orlando?
Etc., etc.

On the "multi-residence snowbird" angle,
I think there are actual answers to these questions -
they're actually spelled out in the law for those who read it.

They're not the sort of "what if I stand in NH and shoot someone in MA"
stupid trick questions that are neither covered by statute nor decided by case law.
 
The federal law states that a dealer can sell a long arm to someone from a different state provided the gun is legal for that person to own in their home state. There's no 'friend's ski chalet' loophole.
There is a catch to this.

The law allows a long gun to be purchased under the aforementioned circumstances. In the old days the 4473 had two check boxes : [ ] Long gun [ ] Handgun. It has been changed to three as of a number of years ago: [ ] Handgun [ ] Long Gun [ ] Other Firearm. This means that an AR lower is no longer considered a "long gun" but an "other firearm" and therefore does not fall into the out of state long gun purchase criteria. I doubt this was an unintended consequence of the change.
 
The first dealer diagnosed with Stage IV pancreatic cancer should say "f*** Healy" and sell, sell, sell. Bail is unlikely to be opposed since incarceration would place the burden of treatment on the state, and the chances of the dealer living to see trial would be in the very low single digit range.
 
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OK, so a superficial read of an ATF FAQ
(and FAQs generally suck as a source of legal advice,
compared to the text of the actual laws
)
sez:
What constitutes residency in a state?​
For Gun Control Act (GCA) purposes, a person is a resident of a state in which he or she is present with the intention of making a home in that state. The state of residence for a corporation or other business entity is the state where it maintains a place of business.​
A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the state in which his or her or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one state and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby state to which they commute each day, then the member has two states of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the state where the duty station is located or the state where the home is maintained.​
[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a)(3), and 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.11]​
Last Reviewed January 30, 2020​

A use of "resides" (on point) is:
May a licensee sell a firearm to a nonlicensee who is a resident of another State?​
Generally, a firearm may not lawfully be sold by a licensee to a nonlicensee who resides in a State other than the State in which the seller’s licensed premises is located. However, the sale may be made if the firearm is shipped to a licensee whose business is in the purchaser’s State of residence and the purchaser takes delivery of the firearm from the licensee in his or her State of residence. In addition, a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.​
[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.99(a)]​
Last Reviewed September 10, 2015​

(And @Len-2A Training, among others,
probably could have written that out from memory).

I truly thought the NES Hive Mind had a consensus understanding
of how flexible the snowbird rule was, to allow a definitive answer to
my earlier two questions.
But maybe not after all.
Sigh.
 
The first dealer diagnosed with Stage IV pancreatic cancer should say "f*** Healy" and sell, sell, sell. Bail is unlikely to be opposed since incarceration would place the burden of treatment on the state, and the chances of the dealer living to see trial would be in the very low single digit range.

How would that affect the value of the dealer's business after his demise? Can his estate sell it "clean" such that the buyer gets a fresh start? Can he pass it down to his son after all that "criminality?"
 
How would that affect the value of the dealer's business after his demise? Can his estate sell it "clean" such that the buyer gets a fresh start? Can he pass it down to his son after all that "criminality?"
I'm thinking of the "hobby dealers" or "small timers" of which there are many, and the heirs would be lucky to get the inventory investment back selling the business. In order for a buyer to pay goodwill (term of art) there has to be something significant there.
 
This means that an AR lower is no longer considered a "long gun" but an "other firearm" and therefore does not fall into the out of state long gun purchase criteria. I doubt this was an unintended consequence of the change.

So before that change, the FFL would use "long gun" when transferring an AR lower? Seems like it could fit in both categories and neither all at the same time!
 
So before that change, the FFL would use "long gun" when transferring an AR lower? Seems like it could fit in both categories and neither all at the same time!
IIRC, the mfr of raw lowers did the declaration to the BATFE and it could never be changed. I'm not 100% on this, but remember reading it from knowledgeable sources back in 1998 when everyone was studying that stuff.
 
Hey OP, I can solve all your problems. Have your friend reach out to me. I'll buy his guns. We can meet at an FFL here in NH and do the transfer. It's completely legal and the NH FFL doesn't give a sh@t if your friend has an LTC or not, or if the guns were ever registered in MA.
Problem solved.

It's been more than 2 months since I bought any guns so I'm way overdue, and the RI Auction isn't until Oct, 10, so I haven't laid out any bid for that YET.
 
The CRFFL must log the seller's info in his bound book, so even if he leaves it out of the eFA-10 there will be a nexus.

The state can't examine the bound book, but they can get ATF to do it for them.
 
IIRC, the mfr of raw lowers did the declaration to the BATFE and it could never be changed. I'm not 100% on this, but remember reading it from knowledgeable sources back in 1998 when everyone was studying that stuff.

I thought if they declared it a pistol then it was always a pistol even if built into a rifle. But a rifle could get changed to a pistol at some point later in life.
 
I thought if they declared it a pistol then it was always a pistol even if built into a rifle. But a rifle could get changed to a pistol at some point later in life.
Best read the Fed law on that, as I don't recall the details but I think that you are incorrect.
 
The CRFFL must log the seller's info in his bound book, so even if he leaves it out of the eFA-10 there will be a nexus.

The state can't examine the bound book, but they can get ATF to do it for them.

1. The "state" somehow discovers the transaction.
2. The "state" requests the "feds" examine documents beyond their own purview.
3. The BATFE, at the behest of the Commonwealth, now goes looking for a transaction duly recorded by regulation in the Dispo/Aquis log.
I dunno, but seems to me there would have to be an extremely and unusually keen interest by the state and federal authorities to focus on this one event.
 
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Well the question is- do you base you actions off what is likely to happen, or what is the worst that could happen? I go by the worst that could happen.
 
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