C&R Handgun Interstate Transfer

[center442]

Hello everyone! I've been lurking and reading for several months now. A great forum with a lot of helpful people. I've been searching through the posts for an answer to the following question and I want to make sure that my conclusions are correct...I don't want to spend time at "gray bar hotel."

SITUATION/QUESTION: I have applied for a C&R FFL. Let's say that once I have the FFL I come across a nice PO8 Luger pistol dating back to the 1930's. According to the BATFE this gun qualifies as a curio/relic. It also goes without saying that it will not be on the "approved" list in the PRM, therefore it cannot be shipped/sold to me by a regular FFL dealer. Can I purchase said handgun and have it shipped to me on my C&R FFL? (Unless I am misreading other posts it looks like I can) I have an LTC-A license so I am qualified to own said pistol in the PRM. If I can legally acquire the pistol this way I would assume I then fill out an FA10 registering it.

I'm guessing I'm wrong about something here. If not then this is almost too good to be true!

Sorry if this issue has been dealt with elsewhere but I couldn't find this exact situation. Dealing with long guns seems a lot clearer.

Thanks for any help!

 

[MikeD]

SITUATION/QUESTION: I have applied for a C&R FFL. Let's say that once I have the FFL I come across a nice PO8 Luger pistol dating back to the 1930's. According to the BATFE this gun qualifies as a curio/relic. It also goes without saying that it will not be on the "approved" list in the PRM, therefore it cannot be shipped/sold to me by a regular FFL dealer. Can I purchase said handgun and have it shipped to me on my C&R FFL? (Unless I am misreading other posts it looks like I can) I have an LTC-A license so I am qualified to own said pistol in the PRM. If I can legally acquire the pistol this way I would assume I then fill out an FA10 registering it.

Well, I'll be the bearer of good news.. Once you have your c&r license you can buy that P08 Luger. You can buy it from out of state and have it sent directly to your house or buy one in-state from a private sale FTF, no dealer FFL involement here and yes, an FA-10 is required to register it in Ma.

I should also add that a Ma. dealer can sell a c&r handgun, but only to a Licensee, it cannot be transferred on a Ma. LTC.

 

[center442]

Well, I'll be the bearer of good news.. Once you have your c&r license you can buy that P08 Luger. You can buy it from out of state and have it sent directly to your house or buy one in-state from a private sale FTF, no dealer FFL involement here and yes, an FA-10 is required to register it in Ma.

I should also add that a Ma. dealer can sell a c&r handgun, but only to a Licensee, it cannot be transferred on a Ma. LTC.

WHOOOOHOOOOO! Thanks for the good news Wherewolf. Look out checkbook...Daddy is going shopping!

 

[tele_mark]

I think the trick is going to be finding an out of state dealer who'll ship a C&R to you, regardless of the legality.

 

[MikeD]

I think the trick is going to be finding an out of state dealer who'll ship a C&R to you, regardless of the legality.

Exactly, if you do find companies that will ship c&r's to Mass. Let's keep it amongst ourselves and not post who they are publicly.

 

[KMaurer]

Of course, "among ourselves" means that you let all us mods know.

Ken

 

[center442]

Exactly, if you do find companies that will ship c&r's to Mass. Let's keep it amongst ourselves and not post who they are publicly.

Hmmmm...I hadn't considered that to be a problem. I know that a DEALER might be in trouble if s/he sold a gun not on the list, but I am not acting as a dealer but as a collector and it is a shipment from one FFL holder to another.

I know with ammo that out of state companies are reluctant to ship because of threats from our state government. I even find that a little puzzling. Let's say that I owned an ammo distributorship in say, Iowa. I sell and ship ammo to someone in the PRM. The PRM then "threatens" me with fines, etc. How are they going to enforce their threat? They're accusing me of violation of a Massachusetts law, but I'm not IN Massachusetts. What's to prevent me from just ignoring them? My transaction is perfectly legal under INTERSTATE law. I suppose that I would never be able to vacation or get caught driving through Massachusetts, but other than that.....!

In the last few months I've found several companies that WOULD ship ammo to me and one that wouldn't ship ammo but would ship components. (Not going to list them here, Ken!)

[BIG SIGH] I find it hard to believe that the American Revolution started in this state. If we had the government back then that we do now we'd still be toasting King George III.

 

[tele_mark]

Unfortunatly, on most of the websites that C&R dealers have, you'll find something like this:

MASSACHUSETTS CUSTOMERS: 01 FFL Dealers may purchase handguns that are on the MA approved for sale list, rifles without high capacity magazines. No C&R firearms sales. No high capacity magazine sales to anyone or dealer in MA. No Ammunition Sales.

 

[Paulm]

Unfortunatly, on most of the websites that C&R dealers have, you'll find something like this:

MASSACHUSETTS CUSTOMERS: 01 FFL Dealers may purchase handguns that are on the MA approved for sale list, rifles without high capacity magazines. No C&R firearms sales. No high capacity magazine sales to anyone or dealer in MA. No Ammunition Sales.

Thats just about what I have found. I've have been able to purchased C & R rifles only to have them refuse to send the ammo

Bugie

 

[Len-2A Training]

Center44,

Welcome to the forum, we hope you enjoy it here.

Now, I'll answer your technical question on enforcement against out of state companies.

Like you I always thought that MA couldn't "reach out" to someone in another state for an alleged violation here. Turns out not to be true. As a Constable, I've been serving papers (Summons & Complaints) on another state's case against a company . . . they then have a MA lawyer draw up a "mirror" Summons & Complaint" here and get a MA judge to sign off on it. I'm tired right now so I don't recall the proper term for this, but for simplicity we'll call it "reciprocity".

So, it seems to be relatively easy for the MA AG to file a complaint in MA, get a lawyer in "state x" (where vendor is located) to file a mirror complaint in state x courts and enforce it on the vendor.

Regardless of "win" or "lose" in the final case, the legal fees can eat a vendor alive, so they then shy away from any business in MA.

 

[center442]

Center44,

Welcome to the forum, we hope you enjoy it here.

Now, I'll answer your technical question on enforcement against out of state companies.

Like you I always thought that MA couldn't "reach out" to someone in another state for an alleged violation here. Turns out not to be true. As a Constable, I've been serving papers (Summons & Complaints) on another state's case against a company . . . they then have a MA lawyer draw up a "mirror" Summons & Complaint" here and get a MA judge to sign off on it. I'm tired right now so I don't recall the proper term for this, but for simplicity we'll call it "reciprocity".

So, it seems to be relatively easy for the MA AG to file a complaint in MA, get a lawyer in "state x" (where vendor is located) to file a mirror complaint in state x courts and enforce it on the vendor.

Regardless of "win" or "lose" in the final case, the legal fees can eat a vendor alive, so they then shy away from any business in MA.

Hello, Len, and thanks for the welcome and information.

I think the final sentence in your post is the important one. No vendor would be able to incur the legal fees that a state could....not if he wanted to stay competitive. The state, of course, could simply use the tax dollars of its citizens to pursue the vendor. Sort of a "David vs. Goliath" battle.

Hmmm...maybe the ACLU would like to take this one on?

 

[Len-2A Training]

The ACLU believes that ONLY military and LE should have guns.

They deny that the 2nd Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights.

They only protect "some rights" that THEY believe in.

If there was a "real national industry group" of dealers with brass balls, they could (as a group that IS EFFECTED by this AG interpretation) take legal action in a Federal Court and perhaps get it overturned. Groups that represent gun owners do NOT have "legal standing" in this matter (GOAL tried it back in 1998 and lost due to this). But it takes a national level of $ and a Fed Court to even stand a chance.

 

[Garys]

The ACLU believes that ONLY military and LE should have guns.

But not US military and LE, only the military and LE of despotic foriegn regimes!

Gary

 

[Lynne]

WHOOOOHOOOOO! Thanks for the good news Wherewolf. Look out checkbook...Daddy is going shopping!

Just make sure you send them a signed copy (don't sign the original and make a bunch of copies) of the C&R and you shouldn't have any problems.