C3 or C1 for carry condition.

IvIax

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I really like the read and some of the well trained military guys were commenting on this subject. C3 doesn't look that bad.
THE MYTHS OF THE ISRAELI METHOD OF CARRY, or why carrying chamber empty isn’t so bad.


Jeff Cooper, a Marine Lieutenant Colonel who served in both World War II and the Korean War, is recognized as the father of what is commonly known as “The Modern Technique” of handgun shooting and considered by many to be one of the world’s foremost experts on the use and history of small arms. He was well-known for his advocacy of large caliber handguns for personal defense, especially the 1911 Colt. Cooper recognized that there are several conditions of readiness in which single-action guns like the 1911 can be carried. According to many shooters, he promulgated the following Conditions of Readiness:
Condition 0 – Round in the chamber; hammer cocked; thumb safety is OFF; full magazine in gun.
Condition 1 – (Also known as “Cocked and Locked”)- Round in the chamber; hammer cocked; thumb safety is ON; full magazine in gun.
Condition 2 – Round in the chamber; hammer down; full magazine in gun.
Condition 3 – Chamber is empty; hammer down; full magazine in gun.
Condition 4 – Chamber is empty; hammer down; NO magazine in the gun.
Condition 5 – Verbally disarm the criminals.


Although often referred to as the Israeli Method or the Israeli Technique, carrying chamber empty (C3) is not restricted to the Israelis, nor did they develop it. It is gotten that label because of the fact that the Israelis popularized it as a method of carry and developed an entire method of presentation around empty-chamber carry. And their reasons for doing so are quite pertinent: a method of carry that allows safe carry with quick response time for (at that time) a largely untrained population with a diverse variety of firearms.

http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com/2010/09/myths-of-israeli-method-of-carry-or-why.html
 
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76Too

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I ALWAYS carry condition 1...unless I'm in the field with the Marine Corps. Then I carry around a rifle with no bullets in it and 7 empty magazines on my flak because my country doesn't trust me with them on our own soil. Oh, and I would be court martialed for carrying my own sidearm or any personally owned firearm for self defense.

But if I could carry, anytime/anywhere...it would be in condition one. There's absolutely no reason to carry without a round chambered.
 

M1911

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C3 carry is still mind numbingly stupid.

This.

Can you chamber a round relatively quickly if you have both hands free? Sure, you can.

But the problem is that you might not have both hands free. Your support hand might be fending off the attacker. Or pushing your spouse to cover. Or opening a door. Or holding your child's hand. Or holding a flashlight.

There are techniques to cycle the slide with one hand. They take a lot of training to do quickly. And they require a certain type of rear sight. It also helps to have an exposed, rigid belt with which to snag the rear sight. And I'd bet they are harder to execute when a perp is in the process of stabbing you in the stomach.

Of course, in far less time than it takes you train to quickly cycle the slide with one hand or two, you could just learn to carry condition 1 and operate the damn safety. It isn't hard.

The Israeli method is a clever solution to a bureaucratically imposed problem. If you don't have a bureaucracy imposing that problem on you (chamber empty carry), then why bother with their solution?

It is always faster to start with the chamber full.
 
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When I carry my 1911, I carry the same way I carry my M&P. C0. Only time I use the safety is when I use it for uspsa or idpa, as they require its use. If I ever have to draw, it will be because I need to use it. Otherwise is sits perfectly happy in its holster on my hip.
 

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If you still have any doubt about the matter, you should read Chapter 10, Hotel Holdup: Steve Robey, in Chris Bird's Thank God I had a Gun.

Read it, put yourself in his place, and then think about it again.

 

IvIax

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I carry a p938 right now. Without the grip safety, I am not very comfortable to carry it condition 1.
 
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s&w 637. Carry condition?[grin]

my G23 gets C1 in a Remora. Reality is either you don't trust the holster or don't trust yourself in C3
 

M1911

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I carry a p938 right now. Without the grip safety, I am not very comfortable to carry it condition 1.
Then replace it with something you are more comfortable with. And get more training..

Btw, I usually carry a Glock. The have no manual safety and no grip safety. I carry them condition 0.
 
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IvIax

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Most hammer fired guns you carry cock and locked . Unless there double action.
When i carry a 1911, ,it's cock and locked, I know there are still a trigger and grip safety protect me from discharging it. P938 could go wrong if the safety gets messed up by something.
 

warwickben

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When i carry a 1911, ,it's cock and locked, I know there are still a trigger and grip safety protect me from discharging it. P938 could go wrong if the safety gets messed up by something.
If the safety screws up and the gun goes off it means you finger wasn't in the right spot. Or you where slamming the gun in to a rock . Don't ever trust a safety .

Older 1911's didn't have a firing pin block like the newer ones. Just the thumb and grip.
Newer ones added the firing pin safety (trigger safety is what I'm thinking your calling it)
The sig has one.

When I started to carry my xds I felt weird since it has no manual safety just passive ones. After I passed out with it one night and didn't wake up with a hole in my butt.
 
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s&w 637. Carry condition?[grin]

my G23 gets C1 in a Remora. Reality is either you don't trust the holster or don't trust yourself in C3

Serious question - why would somebody not trust a holster? Faulty holster? The leather or neoprene could contact the trigger?
 

drgrant

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Someone should make a p938 with a grip safety. Making some serious money!

Lol, not really. Nobody cares about grip safeties, hell, there are guys that tape them down on 1911's, although its not usually necessary.

-Mike
 

M1911

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Lol, not really. Nobody cares about grip safeties, hell, there are guys that tape them down on 1911's, although its not usually necessary.

I believe that Supermoto pins his.

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s&w 637. Carry condition?[grin]

my G23 gets C1 in a Remora. Reality is either you don't trust the holster or don't trust yourself in C3

I'd call that condition 0 -- no manual safety on a Glock.
 

drgrant

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I'd call that condition 0 -- no manual safety on a Glock.

Yeah, but that whole readiness thing IIRC, was a cooperism designed around 1911's. In the descriptions it doesn't really take into account things like DA revolvers, DA/SA pistols, striker fired pistols, etc.

-Mike
 

drgrant

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I carry a p938 right now. Without the grip safety, I am not very comfortable to carry it condition 1.

Dump the gun then and move onto something else that you don't get jeebies over and you can make ready to fire quickly with one hand. It's not worth it to be that far behind the curve... because if you ever need to use the gun, you're going to want that 3 seconds (or whatever it is) back on your side of the fence.

-Mike
 
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I believe that "cocked and locked" is the only way to carry a single action semi auto. Despite the fact that I have many years of experience with 1911s, I am not completely comfortable with this carry on a daily basis. My original solution was a 2 in snubby (S&W Model 60) due to its double action and easily concealable size and shape. When S&W came out with the 6906, I bought the first one I laid eyes on. Not much bigger than the 60 with 13 rounds of 147 gr Cor Bons at about 1100 fps.

I have no doubt that the 1911 is perfectly safe cocked and locked, but this is not my preferred mode of carry, a personal choice. Carrying a 1911 or clone with an empty chamber eliminates all of the advantages inherent in this pistol. Rather than go this route the shooter would be well advised to to try double action, be it pistol or revolver.
 
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