C3 or C1 for carry condition.

bigblue

NES Member
Rating - 100%
35   0   0
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
14,794
Likes
4,095
I can see why empty chambers are demanded upon secure military bases where an attack is generally met at the gates of the facility (not for the gatekeepers tho). For me however in my day to day life it does not make as much sense, I dont spend any time on restricted access properties secured by armed gaurds.


Based on the number of shootings ON military bases, I would argue that policy doesn't work very well either.
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
81,960
Likes
68,230
I think it's pretty funny gun owners worried about shooting them selfs while carrying.
How many people have been carrying blocks since they came out? How many shot them selfs .

A lot of people have shot themselves with Glocks, 1911s, etc. Most of this is just due to really poor handling and safety habits. The "condition 1 bothering people" thing though is particularly strange to me, though, given the design of the 1911, you're actually looking at redundant safety mechanisms. When I started carrying, I was actually more wigged out by carrying a Glock than the 1911s I had, but even that became no big deal after I understood how the gun worked. If you don't pull that trigger the gun isn't going to fire. It's literally that simple. I used to carry a 2nd gen G19 in a 7 dollar holster too with a round in the pipe, never had an ND. I wouldn't recommend that path though, once I moved onto kydex I discovered that was a whole lot easier.... all you have to do is make sure the holster isn't obstructed, and click the gun in. At this point I absolutely refuse to use a holster that doesn't have a reinforced mouth.

-Mike
 

bigblue

NES Member
Rating - 100%
35   0   0
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
14,794
Likes
4,095
A lot of people have shot themselves with Glocks, 1911s, etc. Most of this is just due to really poor handling and safety habits. The "condition 1 bothering people" thing though is particularly strange to me, though, given the design of the 1911, you're actually looking at redundant safety mechanisms. When I started carrying, I was actually more wigged out by carrying a Glock than the 1911s I had, but even that became no big deal after I understood how the gun worked. If you don't pull that trigger the gun isn't going to fire. It's literally that simple. I used to carry a 2nd gen G19 in a 7 dollar holster too with a round in the pipe, never had an ND. I wouldn't recommend that path though, once I moved onto kydex I discovered that was a whole lot easier.... all you have to do is make sure the holster isn't obstructed, and click the gun in. At this point I absolutely refuse to use a holster that doesn't have a reinforced mouth.

-Mike


Here is the root of the problem: Some people think that the safety is on the gun.

People, the safety is IN YOUR HEAD! If you keep your boogers off the bang switch the gun is SAFE!
 

Woodstock

NES Member
Rating - 100%
40   0   0
Joined
Aug 4, 2009
Messages
3,737
Likes
1,462
I think it's pretty funny gun owners worried about shooting them selfs while carrying.
How many people have been carrying glocks since they came out? How many shot them selfs .
Ask Plaxico Burres and hundreds of other guys, including more than a few "trained professionals". Trigger gets snagged on a jacket drawstring or a finger is in the wrong place when it goes into the holster and you're walking with a limp from now on. The 1911 is much safer, even with one in the pipe - you have to eff up three things to set it off. I own both, and I'm extra careful anytime a Glock is being handled.
 

warwickben

bubba Kalashnikov
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
20,009
Likes
2,794
Location
Kyben pass (tewksbury ma)
Ask Plaxico Burres and hundreds of other guys, including more than a few "trained professionals". Trigger gets snagged on a jacket drawstring or a finger is in the wrong place when it goes into the holster and you're walking with a limp from now on. The 1911 is much safer, even with one in the pipe - you have to eff up three things to set it off. I own both, and I'm extra careful anytime a Glock is being handled.
My point is more towards the percent of people who carry glocks who have shot them self is pretty low . I get hung up on holstering etc. I carry a xds most of the time so I pay attention to holstering it.
That said some one worried about carrying a 939 cocked and locked boggles my mind. Since it has a safety .
 

bigblue

NES Member
Rating - 100%
35   0   0
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
14,794
Likes
4,095
Ask Plaxico Burres and hundreds of other guys, including more than a few "trained professionals". Trigger gets snagged on a jacket drawstring or a finger is in the wrong place when it goes into the holster and you're walking with a limp from now on. The 1911 is much safer, even with one in the pipe - you have to eff up three things to set it off. I own both, and I'm extra careful anytime a Glock is being handled.


Parading Plax out there as an example for needing a safety is hilarious. The guy was appendix carrying in the waistband of his track pants without a holster.

The gun does not fire on its own. With a proper holster and proper trigger discipline foreign objects should not be contacting the trigger. Period.

If the gun fires "accidentally" you are doing it wrong. Triggers don't pull themselves.

Never rely on the safety on the gun. Please see the Remington 700 and "home trigger jobs" on Glocks for examples of why this is a bad, really really bad idea.

I repeat: you are the only safety that matters.

"Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands."
-Jeff Cooper
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
844
Likes
619
Here is the root of the problem: Some people think that the safety is on the gun.

People, the safety is IN YOUR HEAD! If you keep your boogers off the bang switch the gun is SAFE!

This all day! I just don't get the carry condition debate. It is right behind caliber wars and gun lubricates. The weak link in safety are habits of the person handling the gun, not the gun itself. If you have it in a holster that covers the trigger, then what is the problem? In a sense a gun needs to be dangerous, otherwise what good is it?
 

M60

NES Member
Rating - 100%
60   0   0
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
6,492
Likes
6,061
Location
Occupied Massachusetts
Don't carry a 1911 at half cock. The half cock notch is a safety element. It is there so that if the hammer notch fails or the sear points jump the hammer notch, then the sear points will stop in the half cock notch, preventing the hammer from hitting the firing pin. If you are carrying on the half cock notch and the sear points jump the half cock notch, then you are shit out of luck.

Don't go looking for some "clever" wall hack for carrying a 1911. If you don't want to carry a 1911 condition 1, then get a different gun for goodness sakes. In whatever size and caliber you desire, there are many different alternatives, from revolver, to striker-fired, to DA/SA.

I've been carrying, handling and shooting 1911's for a bit now. Well, since 1968. I'm pretty sure that I'm aware of the ins and outs of the 1911. I was pointing out, that unlike the 1911, the Sig 938 can be dealt with in a way that the 1911 can't be dealt with. You and I don't have to like it as a option. That's why I carry a Glock.
 
Rating - 100%
100   0   0
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
3,015
Likes
554
Location
Middle earth and there's a battle brewing
Just getting ready to pull the trigger on my first kydex holster. thus far i've picked leather for every IWB/OWB/Ankle carry holster I own. Reason being is that I've always tried holstering/unholstering the firearm with the holster in my hand and never liked the feel of kydex(always felt like the retention was a little TOO tight). i'm hoping there's a difference in actually wearing the holster on my belt that actually makes the retention seem less restrictive.

i've always had speed holsters, so no thumb breaks except for my galco ankle glove for my PM9...so more retention confidence and no use from wear like leather is susceptible to seems like a win/win...just hoping it matches close in comfort as well, because i'm of a light/medium build...not a lot of fat/meat on my hips or anything, so it can make for just about anything being uncomfortable to carry.

The trigger isnt on the holster! ok on a more serious note, look at the N8(squared) holsters. I have one for my G36 and its awesome, also has a little trick for unholstering where you turn the gun a little into your body (its almost automatic since that is how you grab it) preventing someone from ripping your gun from the holster.
 

IvIax

Banned
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
810
Likes
124
Here is the root of the problem: Some people think that the safety is on the gun.

People, the safety is IN YOUR HEAD! If you keep your boogers off the bang switch the gun is SAFE!

We all know the trigger finger is your best safety but people are not always at their best mind. A few more safety feature will help in that case. How do you fire on a normal 1911? You grab the grip, switch off the thumb safety, and pull the trigger. I personally believe the chances for all these happen mistakenly in a condition 1 carry is pretty small, near to impossible. For p938, if your thumb safety gets switch off, you only need something to trigger it. (pocket carry) The chances are much bigger. That being said, I am sure a discharge probably will never happen to the people in this thread since everybody seems to know the 1911 inside out.
 
Last edited:

IvIax

Banned
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
810
Likes
124
Then replace it with something you are more comfortable with. And get more training..

Btw, I usually carry a Glock. The have no manual safety and no grip safety. I carry them condition 0.

I know it's probably the best way. But I really like the feel of p938, the size, it's perfect for me to carry it. If my colt defender is in this size...
 

bigblue

NES Member
Rating - 100%
35   0   0
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
14,794
Likes
4,095
We all know the trigger finger is your best safety but people are not always at their best mind. A few more safety feature will help in that case.

This argument makes absolutely no sense to me.

You want a safety on the gun because sometimes you are stupid? And you think that helps how?

I just can't follow the logic here. Maybe I am slow but either you pull the trigger or you don't. Are you trying to say that you might pull the trigger with the safety engaged?
 

IvIax

Banned
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
810
Likes
124
This argument makes absolutely no sense to me.

You want a safety on the gun because sometimes you are stupid? And you think that helps how?

I just can't follow the logic here. Maybe I am slow but either you pull the trigger or you don't. Are you trying to say that you might pull the trigger with the safety engaged?

Well nothing beats the good training. Yes, if you are stupid, safety would not help. I was referring to people who lack of training and consistency. I had a guy in my gun club to show me his gun, while his just old me he carries it in condition 1. He pulled out the gun, and the safety was off. To answer your question, if you pocket carry a p938 and you don't have the safety on, there are a lot of things could pull that trigger for you. like a key chain, a tiny flash light... Glock's trigger is very different than 1911s. G42 is safer for pocket carry. That's why I think lighten the trigger on p938 is purely dumb.

I can see it's all about the preference. I like grip safety and some of us don't. I will train harder to carry p938 in condition one and holster carry it only.
 
Last edited:

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
81,960
Likes
68,230
We all know the trigger finger is your best safety but people are not always at their best mind. A few more safety feature will help in that case.

So a gun should be larded up with more needless crap because some people are really stupid? [laugh]

-Mike
 

IvIax

Banned
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
810
Likes
124
So a gun should be larded up with more needless crap because some people are really stupid? [laugh]

-Mike

well, not the stupid people per se, but lacking of training. I would not mind to have it, if that feature is not making any trouble for me. A grip safety is one example, it's not blocking you for anything.
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
81,960
Likes
68,230
Well nothing beats the good training. Yes, if you are stupid, safety would not help. I was referring to people who lack of training and consistency. I had a guy in my gun club to show me his gun, while his just old me he carries it in condition 1. He pull on the gun, and the safety was off. To answer your question, if you pocket carry a p938 and you don't have the safety on, there are a lot of things could pull that trigger for you. like a key chain, a tiny flash light... Glock's trigger is very different than 1911s. G42 is safer for pocket carry. That's why I think lighten the trigger on p938 is purely dumb.

None of those should be carried without a good holster, really, and if you have any of that shit "aka things that can get stuck in the trigger" in/around/near your holster/gun you're doing it wrong.

How is a glock trigger different? Plenty of people have had Glock NDs from getting junk stuck in the trigger, too. Kind of a problem on ANY gun.

-Mike
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
6
Likes
0
I'm new here but this thread was interesting and wanted to share my $0.02. When i first started carrying, i was not comfortable carrying a round in the chamber (I know I know). I tried what a lot of people suggested with my glock/other smis at first: carry it "cocked" so the trigger was ready, but with an empty chamber, just to see how my trigger discipline was and to build confidence. I did that for a while but still never got fully comfortable carrying the glock with one in the pipe. Then I got into Sigs/HK's and got used to having a decocker. Started carrying those external hammer guns with a round chambered and decocked and that sort of built my confidence. Once I got used to that, I went back to the Glock and have been carrying that for quite some time now cocked and ready to go.

My whole point of this is to say that for me, i was initially not comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber but sort of worked my way up. I don't think it's wise for one to carry in a condition that they are not comfortable with, that they dont train with. I am thankful i never had to draw my weapon as having to chamber a round would likely leave me dead! Now that I am comfortable with it, it's the only way to go.
 

M1911

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
39,724
Likes
8,111
Location
Near Framingham
I can see why empty chambers are demanded upon secure military bases where an attack is generally met at the gates of the facility (not for the gatekeepers tho).

I can't. If you can't trust your soldiers with loaded guns then train them until you can.
 
Last edited:

bigblue

NES Member
Rating - 100%
35   0   0
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
14,794
Likes
4,095
I'm new here but this thread was interesting and wanted to share my $0.02. When i first started carrying, i was not comfortable carrying a round in the chamber (I know I know). I tried what a lot of people suggested with my glock/other smis at first: carry it "cocked" so the trigger was ready, but with an empty chamber, just to see how my trigger discipline was and to build confidence. I did that for a while but still never got fully comfortable carrying the glock with one in the pipe. Then I got into Sigs/HK's and got used to having a decocker. Started carrying those external hammer guns with a round chambered and decocked and that sort of built my confidence. Once I got used to that, I went back to the Glock and have been carrying that for quite some time now cocked and ready to go.

My whole point of this is to say that for me, i was initially not comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber but sort of worked my way up. I don't think it's wise for one to carry in a condition that they are not comfortable with, that they dont train with. I am thankful i never had to draw my weapon as having to chamber a round would likely leave me dead! Now that I am comfortable with it, it's the only way to go.


How exactly to you cock or uncock a Glock (or other striker fired pistol) pistol?


As for pocket carry, you are a bloody moron and deserve to shoot yourself if you carry ANYTHING without a proper holster and/or with anything else in the pocket.
 

M1911

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
39,724
Likes
8,111
Location
Near Framingham
We all know the trigger finger is your best safety but people are not always at their best mind. A few more safety feature will help in that case. How do you fire on a normal 1911? You grab the grip, switch off the thumb safety, and pull the trigger. I personally believe the chances for all these happen mistakenly in a condition 1 carry is pretty small, near to impossible. For p938, if your thumb safety gets switch off, you only need something to trigger it. (pocket carry) The chances are much bigger. That being said, I am sure a discharge probably will never happen to the people in this thread since everybody seems to know the 1911 inside out.

Are you suggesting carrying your 938 in a pocket WITHOUT a pocket holster? Don't DO that. Don't carry any gun in a pocket without a pocket holster. A holster (whether belt or pocket) covers the trigger guard. That is what prevents the trigger from getting snagged. A pocket holster also keeps the gun oriented properly so that you can grip it when you reach into your pocket. If you are carrying a gun in you pocket without a pocket holster, then you SHOULD be worried because you're doing it wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

I know it's probably the best way. But I really like the feel of p938, the size, it's perfect for me to carry it. If my colt defender is in this size...

But you've got a fundamental problem with the functioning of the gun. You don't like it since you don't want to carry it the way it was designed. If you want a pocket-sized 9mm that isn't single action, then get a S&W Shield, or a Kahr PM9, or Glock 43, or have a dozen other choices. Then get a pocket holster and you're done.
 

FrankNA

NES Member
Rating - 100%
12   0   0
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
1,854
Likes
1,853
Location
Behind the Iron Curtain - DPRM
IvIax - Do yourself a favor (and any of your loved ones) and get yourself a decent holster in which to carry your firearm. A decent holster will support the gun and cover the trigger so it is nearly impossible for the gun to ND.
 

IvIax

Banned
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
810
Likes
124
IvIax - Do yourself a favor (and any of your loved ones) and get yourself a decent holster in which to carry your firearm. A decent holster will support the gun and cover the trigger so it is nearly impossible for the gun to ND.

I did. It's on it's way. The safety will be covered in the holster.
 

warwickben

bubba Kalashnikov
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
May 30, 2012
Messages
20,009
Likes
2,794
Location
Kyben pass (tewksbury ma)
Are you suggesting carrying your 938 in a pocket WITHOUT a pocket holster? Don't DO that. Don't carry any gun in a pocket without a pocket holster. A holster (whether belt or pocket) covers the trigger guard. That is what prevents the trigger from getting snagged. A pocket holster also keeps the gun oriented properly so that you can grip it when you reach into your pocket. If you are carrying a gun in you pocket without a pocket holster, then you SHOULD be worried because you're doing it wrong.

- - - Updated - - -



But you've got a fundamental problem with the functioning of the gun. You don't like it since you don't want to carry it the way it was designed. If you want a pocket-sized 9mm that isn't single action, then get a S&W Shield, or a Kahr PM9, or Glock 43, or have a dozen other choices. Then get a pocket holster and you're done.

I'm not kidding , I've pocket carried a full size 1911 before. I have one pair of shorts that has a big pocket on the side . My buddy bumped my leg and was like wtf was that. He couldn't stop laughing I was pocket carrying a 1911.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
6
Likes
0
How exactly to you cock or uncock a Glock (or other striker fired pistol) pistol?


As for pocket carry, you are a bloody moron and deserve to shoot yourself if you carry ANYTHING without a proper holster and/or with anything else in the pocket.

lol. you mad bro? sorry, i should have said "racked the slide" vs "cocking" a glock. terminology strikes again.

never said i pocket carried anything. would never think of doing that.
 
Last edited:

IvIax

Banned
Rating - 100%
6   0   0
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
810
Likes
124
IvIax - Do yourself a favor (and any of your loved ones) and get yourself a decent holster in which to carry your firearm. A decent holster will support the gun and cover the trigger so it is nearly impossible for the gun to ND.

here
 

Attachments

  • 20150606_183612628_iOS.jpg
    20150606_183612628_iOS.jpg
    210.1 KB · Views: 24
Top Bottom