Calling all experts - can it be that I simply cannot handle Glock (19)? I shoot

[whatluck]

So true....... I learned that the hard way when I was younger lol. Boxing is all fine and well, until you end up with someone who can grapple lol. Grappling ( just my opinion here...) is probably the best all around street fighting skill there is.

While it's true, most street fights go to the ground, and ground fighting is important, it's really best not to go to the ground on the street. There's way too much that can go wrong. If you can box the best thing you can do is end it fast so you can walk away.

 

[Supermoto]

While it's true, most street fights go to the ground, and ground fighting is important, it's really best not to go to the ground on the street. There's way too much that can go wrong. If you can box the best thing you can do is end it fast so you can walk away.

I agree, you are forced to fight on the ground. There are no options to disengage

 

[EC1]

Back to the original post, I have a similar issue with the 92FS and a S&W compact 9 mm. Both seem to shoot low and left. This is not the case with any of my 1911's. Is it just the different angle of the grip to the barrel? Or the ever popular something else?

 

[Supermoto]

The 1911 trigger does a great job reducing shooting errors. Guns with longer, heavier triggers bring them to light

 

[bill o]

The difference between iso and weaver is upper body. Not foot position. Why would you go from a neutral position were you can transition to both sides quickly to a position were recoil is only transfered to the strong side and you are limiting your transitions and peripheral vision to your weak side.

I think these guys are just throwbacks to an era where a 10 second el prez made you a superstar. You can do that with a Weaver stance, no problem. Think of every time you see the tactical crowd do any type of practical shooting with movement and reloads. It's hilarious, and to us it screams "D class." They're pretty much in their own little world where the standards for fast accurate shooting are incredibly low.

Basically, Weaver suits them as well as iso because for the most part they never practice or push their limits anyways. There's nothing wrong with that but it does show they lack perspective on how to run a pistol by today's standards.

 

[GPP]

The 1911 trigger does a great job reducing shooting errors. Guns with longer, heavier triggers bring them to light

absolutely this. Are you shooting your 92F DA only or DA/ SA? Where is that first DA shot hitting?

 

[Warrior1A]

Regarding fighting

Nobody wants to have to defend or fight back from an isosceles stance. You have no base, therefore no power. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't train to fight standing upright shoulders squared feet shoulder width apart. Chances are if you get attacked you'll be standing in this relaxed vulnerable position. You might protect yourself and make the best power from modified iso, but this is your preference and not necessarily the preference of your attacker. You need to be able to adapt, and for this you must most importantly master the transitions from the less desirable fighting positions to one of advantage. That's why you teach ALL THE TECHNIQUES.

So you need to be able to fight in any of these positions, but know the one best that you get hits. That's what really counts, is being able to get hits.

I bet balance factors in quite a bit here! (See my earlier posts) Well said.

 

[GPP]

I think these guys are just throwbacks to an era where a 10 second el prez made you a superstar. You can do that with a Weaver stance, no problem. Think of every time you see the tactical crowd do any type of practical shooting with movement and reloads. It's hilarious, and to us it screams "D class." They're pretty much in their own little world where the standards for fast accurate shooting are incredibly low.

Basically, Weaver suits them as well as iso because for the most part they never practice or push their limits anyways. There's nothing wrong with that but it does show they lack perspective on how to run a pistol by today's standards.

Nailed it!

 

[warwickben]

I'm thinking bitch mitts

 

[EC1]

absolutely this. Are you shooting your 92F DA only or DA/ SA? Where is that first DA shot hitting?

Pretty much just shooting SA.

 

[warpig]

To the OP, I'm in the same boat as you. I've had multiple G19s, and I'm left all the time. I'm accurate with 9mms lik 92FS, SR9C, Steyr M9-A1, as well as GP-100 and 1911s.
If the G19 platform doesn't "work" for you, nothing wrong with walking away like I did and use what's works for you.

 

[todd c]

if your not doing tacticle rolls then your doing it wrong

 

[Terminator03]

here is 25 yards at a shotgun shell. Which would be smaller than a milk bottle at 100 yard. When you and your buddies are done playing tennis, give it a try. Don't forget to get it on video

[video=youtube_share;qKIQT_fUSzs]http://youtu.be/qKIQT_fUSzs[/video]

That's really awesome shooting! I don't even think I'd be able to "see" the shotgun shell at that range let alone hit it on the first shot, at least with a handgun anyway. I routinely do use those for targets with my 15-22 with a red dot optic though and have no problems at that range. I seem to have issues with my focal range when using iron sights that doesn't happen with a red dot.

 

[GPP]

Pretty much just shooting SA.

That would explain a lot, the 92F has a horrendous DA pull. If you are dead set on carrying your G19, then you gotta figure out that trigger. If you go to the range with a buddy, have him or her load your mags, and put a few empties in the stack. You will absolutely know if you're jerking/flinching, plus you will have to perform immediate action to get it back into battery.

 

[M1911]

Im more of a " fighting" position guy, which for me is left foot forward, basically a boxing stance. It works for me, I can pivot and step etc. Iso doesn't work for me, perhaps I'm not built properly for it?

You can shoot left foot forward and still be using iso. At right-hand cover, I have right foot forward. At left-hand cover, I have left foot forward. I'm still shooting iso.

- - - Updated - - -

Back to the original post, I have a similar issue with the 92FS and a S&W compact 9 mm. Both seem to shoot low and left. This is not the case with any of my 1911's. Is it just the different angle of the grip to the barrel? Or the ever popular something else?

It is all about trigger control.

 

[bill o]

That would explain a lot, the 92F has a horrendous DA pull. If you are dead set on carrying your G19, then you gotta figure out that trigger. If you go to the range with a buddy, have him or her load your mags, and put a few empties in the stack. You will absolutely know if you're jerking/flinching, plus you will have to perform immediate action to get it back into battery.

I'd strongly advise against ball and dummy drills, as you won't be able to distinguish between a flinch and a normal post-ignition push. Where the bullet hits on target is all you need to know.

 

[GPP]

I'd strongly advise against ball and dummy drills, as you won't be able to distinguish between a flinch and a normal post-ignition push. Where the bullet hits on target is all you need to know.

Well clearly, once again you've nailed it. I don't know what a post ignition push is ( it sounds strangely to me like anticipating the shot or flinching) but I am old and don't know how you guys do the new stuff.

 

[Supermoto]

I'd strongly advise against ball and dummy drills, as you won't be able to distinguish between a flinch and a normal post-ignition push. Where the bullet hits on target is all you need to know.

Here is something to ponder. If you thought you had a problem with flinching, would you be doing a post ignition push? Is the post ignition push an advanced technique that usually develops after you have solved the flinch and are calling your shots?

 

[sbi]

Yup. The more of your finger. Put the pad ( tip) of your finger on the trigger with your normal 2 handed grip. Look at the angle of your finger from your hand to the bend in your finger, it will be great ( to the right) of 90 degrees. Completely un natural. ...but was the first ( DA) shot from your 92F on the money or was it " out"? Or did you cheat and cock the hammer haha?

Almost never shot DA with 92, or SA.
BTW - you can technically skip the DA with the Glock as well if you keep your trigger pulled back when re-loading, or after clearing the gun and still holding the trigger, load mag, pull the slide...you'll then be in SA and ready to shoot when trigger re-connects.
I'll definitely have to try pulling with full finger all the way and yes - it did look awkward when I first got the Glock (when placing the tip only on the trigger).

The Glock trigger is hard to master. Try the following. Load the gun then remove the magazine. Fire the first (and only shot). Pull the trigger again (now dry fire). Did you flinch the second time around? Lather, rinse, repeat.

Also, the 25 cent trigger job can help a bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XJxltxvAo4

Not really the 25 cents job, but I did replace the original Gen4 with a G17 trigger and I like it better than the original Gen4 one.

To the OP, I'm in the same boat as you. I've had multiple G19s, and I'm left all the time. I'm accurate with 9mms lik 92FS, SR9C, Steyr M9-A1, as well as GP-100 and 1911s.
If the G19 platform doesn't "work" for you, nothing wrong with walking away like I did and use what's works for you.

Yeah, this thought did come up, trying to avoid it though

 

[bill o]

You can have both a flinch and a push. It's just a hundredth of a second that separates the two, in theory. I think the push just comes naturally, it's not really a technique or something you try to do.

What do you think?

 

[bill o]

BTW - you can technically skip the DA with the Glock as well if you keep your trigger pulled back when re-loading, or after clearing the gun and still holding the trigger, load mag, pull the slide...you'll then be in SA and ready to shoot

Dude....

 

[GPP]

You can have both a flinch and a push. It's just a hundredth of a second that separates the two, in theory. I think the push just comes naturally, it's not really a technique or something you try to do.

What do you think?

I read Jeff Coopers thoughts on that push, so I get the gist now. He basically says it's anticipation related, the post or pre or the actual flinch. I guess it's all kind of the same thing, the only real way to mitigate that ( I think anyways) is to practice and get used to the bang . Get to know your particular choice of arms and bond with it.

- - - Updated - - -

Dude....

i think ( I hope) he's referring to the trigger reset, so you don't have to take up the trigger slack every shot. He may be confusing the slack of the trigger as being the DA part of the trigger pull? That's the only thing I could come up with

 

[whatluck]

I was taught to shoot with both hands at equal pressure, and to only move the index finger with everything else relaxed and neutral, and not react to the bang or muzzle flash, but to instead wait for the recoil and control it, not fight it, re-acquire the target as quickly as possible without actually anticipating. Can you explain this push more? Are you saying it's the natural resistance to the recoil? Or are you actually talking about bending and re-extending your elbow every time you break a shot with your glock-40 held at a 90 degree cant?

ETA: BLAP BLAP! SUCKA!

- - - Updated - - -

BTW - you can technically skip the DA with the Glock as well if you keep your trigger pulled back when re-loading, or after clearing the gun and still holding the trigger, load mag, pull the slide...you'll then be in SA and ready to shoot when trigger re-connects.

Are you telling me you clear your pistol with your finger in the trigger guard?

 

[Supermoto]

You can have both a flinch and a push. It's just a hundredth of a second that separates the two, in theory. I think the push just comes naturally, it's not really a technique or something you try to do.

What do you think?

Hmm. now I have to think about it more. I suspect you are correct that you can have both. My PIP doesn't move the gun when I go dry. But i know I am leaning on the gun the entire time. I think my PIP come from my legs and core, not my arms and wrists. I'll try to investigate this some more during my next practice

 

[sbi]

Dude....

Dude what?!

 

[bill o]

Dude what?!

Are you saying you hold the trigger back while you insert a mag and chamber a round?

 

[drgrant]

Fatter than that. None of those operators are cops though. Still funny.

This thread just makes me think of this for some reason, there is no way around it.... not possible to avoid....

 

[whatluck]

This thread just makes me think of this for some reason, there is no way around it.... not possible to avoid....

I love how the guy almost shoots his elbow off at 0:30

 

[drgrant]

BTW - you can technically skip the DA with the Glock as well if you keep your trigger pulled back when re-loading, or after clearing the gun and still holding the trigger, load mag, pull the slide...you'll then be in SA and ready to shoot when trigger re-connects.

Somewhere there is a manual written by Lee Paige called "How to have a Negligent Discharge" and this advice is somewhere contained within the first chapter.

-Mike

 

[GPP]

This thread just makes me think of this for some reason, there is no way around it.... not possible to avoid....

That.
was.
AWESOME!!!!!!