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Came across this for a Saiga 12 shotty - bullpup conversion looks interesting
- Thread starter beaker
- Start date
Check out the demo video. I'm not sure why they have a creepy looking flasher firing from the hip, a bit weird if you ask me...
http://www.kushnapup.com/demo
It looks cool but I just can't bring myself to trust any bullpup design made by an aftermarket company. Something about a shotgun chamber an inch from my face with what looks like a little plastic in between that seems wrong here.
The kushnapup Saiga 12 Bullpup conversion kit has been complete vapor ware for several years. I know several people who have attempted to purchase these and none have ever received product.
If you actually read the website they are not taking orders... they are taking pre-orders. They change their story every few weeks. I believe that they are currently attempting to bank roll the initial production run with pre-order $$$. This means that they are not actually "in business" yet. Last time I looked at the site they actually said "We are taking pre-orders for the first 1000 units at $199 each. Once we complete the initial production run we will fill the pre-orders and start taking normal orders for $400 each."
This is why the order page has a running count of the number of pre-orders, currently at 373. So they have found 373 suckers and are looking for 627 more.
I have seen them change their story so many times that I have lost confidence that they are acting in good faith. If they ever actually start shipping and if the price is still $199 I will buy one, maybe several. If they jack the price up to $400 as the site used to say, then it will not be worth the $$$.
All of that said... looks f-ing cool.
-MS
If you actually read the website they are not taking orders... they are taking pre-orders. They change their story every few weeks. I believe that they are currently attempting to bank roll the initial production run with pre-order $$$. This means that they are not actually "in business" yet. Last time I looked at the site they actually said "We are taking pre-orders for the first 1000 units at $199 each. Once we complete the initial production run we will fill the pre-orders and start taking normal orders for $400 each."
This is why the order page has a running count of the number of pre-orders, currently at 373. So they have found 373 suckers and are looking for 627 more.
I have seen them change their story so many times that I have lost confidence that they are acting in good faith. If they ever actually start shipping and if the price is still $199 I will buy one, maybe several. If they jack the price up to $400 as the site used to say, then it will not be worth the $$$.
All of that said... looks f-ing cool.
-MS
I would be interested if a legitimate manufacture and distributor took over this venture. Cannot imagine they have a patent on this and are just sitting on it waiting to be bank rolled from pre-orders. And if they do not have a patent I am kind of shocked that someone hasn't just stole this idea right from under them. Lots of fishiness going on here between the company itself and the design of the product not being bought out or just stolen. Too good to be true I suppose.
This is definitely not my area of expertise but it appears you can use an AK-47 bullpup conversion to use on a Saiga.
Picture
If you are a member of Saiga12
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1
Otherwise see picture in post below
Some of the obstacles encountered and how to overcome
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=57151
Picture
If you are a member of Saiga12
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1
Otherwise see picture in post below
Some of the obstacles encountered and how to overcome
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=57151
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Hi, I'm the owner of Kushnapup LLC. My business has just been officially established July 2010. Only the name has been out for 2 years to create awareness of the product. Kushnapup was never available to purchase before July 2010. Why would people your in contact with have told you they tried to purchase the product before this time when it was clearly stated on the old model PREVIEW WEBSITE that all they could do is email me their interests about it? Also if they say they attempted to purchase meaning they never paid, why would they have expected to receive product for free? Look me up, I'm in business, what are you running? Don't call my paying customers suckers, even you stated that you would like to purchase eventually and I've got my price as low as I can get for you with the short wait of preordering. Now that's not vaporware.
Hi Kushnapup! Welcome to NES!
I hope your product roll out goes well and I wish you the best of luck.
The opinions I expressed are based solely on the numerous discussions about your products that can be found over on the Saiga 12 forums. (they are limiting the date range on searches now, so many of those threads are no longer available... but still no fewer than 15 threads on the subject.)
I have been a fan of the Saiga platform for many years and have done many conversions or "restorations" as they like to call them these days over on the Saiga 12 forums. All of my conversions however have been to Saiga rifles, not shotguns. Why ? ...living in a state that still has a AWB in place makes doing a pistol grip conversion on a mag fed semi-auto shotgun a legal no-no. The closest we can get is a thumbhole stock and that is a legal gray area due to the ATF's "thumbholes 'contain' a pistol grip" ruling from back in the days of the federal AWB. Many of us that live behind enemy lines (myself included) are uncomfortable with that gray area. Fortunately a bullpup conversion does away with these concerns because of the ATF's rulling that grips "intrinsic to the design" are exempt. If I remember correctly they explicitly list AUG Sters and P90s as examples.
This makes a Saiga-12 bullpup kit a particularly attractive product for anyone who owns a Saiga-12 and who also lives in an AWB state. I want one of these kits. I really do...
But public opinion about your company has suffered greatly since you first publicly put up a website. Stories abound from respected members for the Saiga community about having contacted your company, attempting to order, and then just getting the run around. If you are concerned with your reputation I really suggest creating a presence over on the Saiga forums and for Pete's sake send out a few samples so people believe it actually exists. I personally have gotten excited about your product no fewer than three times... each time you did a major over haul of the website and you started saying (again) that these would ship soon. But now after having personally followed the progress of your product for several years and having seen your website change stories several times... well I just can't get excited about it anymore. Not until I here someone say "Hey it finally showed up in the mail! Here is a pic of the conversion!"
Please understand that I am honestly attempting to give you constructive advice. Your product looks way cool but you need to do some public relations damage control... and I think that is only going to happen if you ship something. I think about 50% of the folks out there have a "put up or shut up" opinion and the rest are in the "wait and see" camp.
Feel free to send me a pre-production sample and I will change my tune in a heartbeat. I'll write reviews and post pics all over the place... but right now I am waiting, have been waiting, but have not seen anything yet.
-MS
That chamber is too close to me face for me.....
Well said.
![[thumbsup]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/044.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbsup]")
I've read about the product on a few forums but everyone said it turned out to be a dead end.
flintoid
Banned
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Not to be a dick but:
AHHHH! "Preordering" the ever present quote in the Saiga Community! Do you actually have the product in your hand and ready to ship? Or is it like the short wait for many Saiga products...years from completion? Those who have been following the Saiga for years know the promises made followed by the delays associated with a product not ready for market.
Truly god luck in your endeavor. Also I hope you have a patent on this... IF not I would suggest you get one ASAP, if you still can. Trust me when I say that the certain Saiga vendors will wait until your design takes off then undercut your price while ripping off your design.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Yep.
I know that the MD Arms drum was a point of contention for a while as well.
In the Cobra instance it is a case of a perfectionist not wanting to put out a product that does not work with all products. I know Cobra and he is a good guy. He had the LRBHO running with the factory and AGP mags. Then Surefire showed up and when he had that licked MD dropped their drum and Promag hit the ground running. Cobra wants a LRBHO that will work with all these so people do not have to keep re-buying LRBHO as they change mags. That coupled with a run in with cancer and other health/ personal issues really set back his time line. At least he has not been asking for $ up front (not that there is anything wrong with that if your product is ready for immediate production and can be put into someones hand in a matter of weeks - maybe a month. Seems many of these end up going months - years once $ start flowing.
Had it been me I would have started making the ones that worked with the AGP and Factory mags then modified the design to work with the other mags. Most stick with one mag type anyway. That would have got $ flowing and the product out. That is what I did. Start with 12ga then work to incorporate the other rifle and shotgun designs. Problem with the saiga platform is that many of the parts are not interchangeable even simple things like hand guards.
I know that the MD Arms drum was a point of contention for a while as well.
In the Cobra instance it is a case of a perfectionist not wanting to put out a product that does not work with all products. I know Cobra and he is a good guy. He had the LRBHO running with the factory and AGP mags. Then Surefire showed up and when he had that licked MD dropped their drum and Promag hit the ground running. Cobra wants a LRBHO that will work with all these so people do not have to keep re-buying LRBHO as they change mags. That coupled with a run in with cancer and other health/ personal issues really set back his time line. At least he has not been asking for $ up front (not that there is anything wrong with that if your product is ready for immediate production and can be put into someones hand in a matter of weeks - maybe a month. Seems many of these end up going months - years once $ start flowing.
Had it been me I would have started making the ones that worked with the AGP and Factory mags then modified the design to work with the other mags. Most stick with one mag type anyway. That would have got $ flowing and the product out. That is what I did. Start with 12ga then work to incorporate the other rifle and shotgun designs. Problem with the saiga platform is that many of the parts are not interchangeable even simple things like hand guards.
I agree with jaymce on a lot of points. Just in the short time I have been following the Saiga-12 aftermarket and other information I am amazed at the amount of crap that gets thrown around both by the consumers and producers of aftermarket parts. On the S-12 forums three different companies have been bickering back and forth about whos gas plug is better and the forum members start jumping in. I actually ended up grabbing the new MDarms v-plug so I could adjust by hand and have more settings. I haven't had a chance to try it out yet though.
That bullpup conversion does look cool. But my main complaint is the lack of last shot bolt open. No fix on that yet. I would like a shorter Saiga 12. The one I have is a little too big. But a blast to shoot.
That's a sweet looking Saiga!
What stock is that?
You could always have it cut down, but that front sight & muzzle break would have to be reattached.
I do get "what is that" at the gun range. A lot of fun to shoot. I like to take the ladies I Salsa dance with shooting. This is Alex. She is one of my dance instructors. Saturdays afternoon are popular at my club. That when the babes come to shoot. Life is good.
Damn - that looks awesome. $275 isnt that bad, either!
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