Can I purchase a C&R handgun MA

kiver

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I know I read something about this in the past but just could not find the thread. I am interested in purchasing an inherited C&R handgun. I do have a C&R but thought I read something about not being able to transfer handguns. Can anyone let me know if this is possible and what I need to do for the transaction. The current owner is clearing his fathers estate and does not have a license
 
Break this into to jurisdictions, federal and state

Federal
You may purchase any C&R firearm from anyone, anywhere. You may purchase it in person in any state. You may have it shipped to you. Federal law is quite simple relative to your C&R. As long as the firearm is a C&R firearm and you have a C&R, you are good to go.

State (MA)
MA does not (yet) recognize your C&R license. Come 1/1/21 this will change. This means that inside MA the fact you have a C&R is not relevant. It gains you nothing. You have to abide by all state laws as if you did not have the C&R. FTF you do a eFA10. A dealer can sell you the C&R but is subject to the "list" for handguns. While you are out of state, federal law is in play (plus state law of the state you are in).

Come 1/1/21 MA recognizes the C&R in so much as a MA dealer can transfer to you even if off list.


Remember, however you acquire it, log into your bound book and also do your eFA10 within 7 days of acquisition (unless the method you got it had the seller doing the FA10)
 
MA Dealers can't transfer any C&R handguns (legally) unless it can be proven that it was "in state" prior to 1998 GCA. The 2015 law says that this won't apply to C&R FFL holders after Jan 2021 (providing that the legistraitors don't remove this exemption).

That said, a C&R FFL can obtain the same handguns from anyone (person or FFL) that is located in any other state other than MA. So one option is for the "personal representative" to bring it to a cooperative FFL in NH or some other state (MAKE SURE that they understand the law) and you can do the transfer at that FFL based on your C&R FFL. I've bought a C&R handgun from KTP years ago and walked out with it in a brown paper bag, so it certainly can be done.
 
Buy it, log it, file FA10.
with the addition that if the purchase is in MA then the seller does the eFA10 as if no C&R is involved.

Another challenge you will find is that many dealers wont ship into MA to you as a C&R. It is lawful, but they just don't want to deal with MA (can you blame them?) If you find ones that do, DONT post their names here (read stickies). The work around is to have them ship to your favorite FFL in NH and then go pickup there
 
with the addition that if the purchase is in MA then the seller does the eFA10 as if no C&R is involved.

Another challenge you will find is that many dealers wont ship into MA to you as a C&R. It is lawful, but they just don't want to deal with MA (can you blame them?) If you find ones that do, DONT post their names here (read stickies). The work around is to have them ship to your favorite FFL in NH and then go pickup there

Yeah it's too bad the State of Massachusetts can't follow the law. Go figure.
 
What if the seller does not have a LTC. I would assume I would have to do the eFA10. What would I enter as seller
 
What if the seller does not have a LTC. I would assume I would have to do the eFA10. What would I enter as seller

When I was buying a lot of C&R pieces, 99% of the transactions were by mail with out-of-state sellers. That's the main reason to have an 03 in MA. Enter the seller's address or FFL number, either one.
 
Come 1/1/21 MA recognizes the C&R in so much as a MA dealer can transfer to you even if off list.
... which should always be the case given that the list didn't appear until after 1998 and C&R's generally have to be 50 years old (or pre-1970 as of 2020). [cheers]

BTW, it's also the craziest case of a delayed change in law in MA history. [grin]
 
... which should always be the case given that the list didn't appear until after 1998 and C&R's generally have to be 50 years old (or pre-1970 as of 2020). [cheers]

BTW, it's also the craziest case of a delayed change in law in MA history. [grin]
Maybe you are saying it should have always been the case but that assumes MA is reasonable and logical.

Or maybe you are saying it already is the case because C&R are all pre 98 which is when the law was passed that codified "the list"

If it is the second, then unfortunately no. When the law passed in 98, the nature of the grandfathering the list would not apply to "a firearm lawfully owned or possessed under a license issued under this chapter on or before October 21, 1998". So not a blanket grandfather, just firearms already owned or possessed. Love you MA
 
Maybe you are saying it should have always been the case but that assumes MA is reasonable and logical.

Or maybe you are saying it already is the case because C&R are all pre 98 which is when the law was passed that codified "the list"

If it is the second, then unfortunately no. When the law passed in 98, the nature of the grandfathering the list would not apply to "a firearm lawfully owned or possessed under a license issued under this chapter on or before October 21, 1998". So not a blanket grandfather, just firearms already owned or possessed. Love you MA
We are confusing each other unnecessarily. Sorry about that. Just making the point that "The List" contains zero C&R handguns and won't contain any C&R eligible handguns for at least 28 or so more years... so, by definition, all FFL C&R transfers will be "off-list" for a very long time to come. [grin]

I'll work on my humor and see if I can't do better next time. [dance]
 
Interesting thread. Is it relatively straightforward to obtain the FFL03? For instance, if I have a LTC and can file paperwork, am I likely to be able to obtain? Thanks for any insight!
 
Interesting thread. Is it relatively straightforward to obtain the FFL03? For instance, if I have a LTC and can file paperwork, am I likely to be able to obtain? Thanks for any insight!

Yep.

When I did mine, I dutifully informed my PD as the law requires. I got a confused call from the licensing officer. "So, does this mean we need to sign off on it?"

Me: "No. It's not an approval/disapproval thing. I'm just informing you I've applied."

"Oh. Okay." He couldn't have possibly cared less. And this was in what, at the time, was a somewhat red town. I got the impression he round-filed my note.
 
Is it relatively straightforward to obtain the FFL03?
When I did mine, I dutifully informed my PD as the law requires. I got a confused call from the licensing officer. "So, does this mean we need to sign off on it?"

Me: "No. It's not an approval/disapproval thing. I'm just informing you I've applied."
Wow! You went Full Rocketeer!
 
Yep.

When I did mine, I dutifully informed my PD as the law requires. I got a confused call from the licensing officer. "So, does this mean we need to sign off on it?"

Me: "No. It's not an approval/disapproval thing. I'm just informing you I've applied."

"Oh. Okay." He couldn't have possibly cared less. And this was in what, at the time, was a somewhat red town. I got the impression he round-filed my note.

He couldn't have cared less because he very likely didn't know shit about the subject and was also very likely too lazy to actually research it.
 

Oh no! I didn't call them! I just sent them a copy of the app like Uncle Sugar says to. They called me.

He couldn't have cared less because he very likely didn't know shit about the subject and was also very likely too lazy to actually research it.

This. And he admitted as much.
 
Interesting thread. Is it relatively straightforward to obtain the FFL03? For instance, if I have a LTC and can file paperwork, am I likely to be able to obtain? Thanks for any insight!

This should help:

 
Break this into to jurisdictions, federal and state

Federal
You may purchase any C&R firearm from anyone, anywhere. You may purchase it in person in any state. You may have it shipped to you. Federal law is quite simple relative to your C&R. As long as the firearm is a C&R firearm and you have a C&R, you are good to go.

State (MA)
MA does not (yet) recognize your C&R license. Come 1/1/21 this will change. This means that inside MA the fact you have a C&R is not relevant. It gains you nothing. You have to abide by all state laws as if you did not have the C&R. FTF you do a eFA10. A dealer can sell you the C&R but is subject to the "list" for handguns. While you are out of state, federal law is in play (plus state law of the state you are in).

Come 1/1/21 MA recognizes the C&R in so much as a MA dealer can transfer to you even if off list.


Remember, however you acquire it, log into your bound book and also do your eFA10 within 7 days of acquisition (unless the method you got it had the seller doing the FA10)

For my own edification - what is the reason/source for this info? I just moved to MA ~1 year ago so I am largely unaware of any legislation changes besides what was on the general election ballot this year.
 
For my own edification - what is the reason/source for this info? I just moved to MA ~1 year ago so I am largely unaware of any legislation changes besides what was on the general election ballot this year.
You can find it all through MGL 140 121 through MGL 140 131x. The law was passed back at the end of 2015. The reason for the delay in implementation was related to how long it took for all the existing LTC Bs to expire out of existence. The problem is someone "accidentally" also made the C&R and other changes delayed until 1/1/21 at the same time. I am sure no malice involved (year, right)
 
MA does not (yet) recognize your C&R license. Come 1/1/21 this will change. This means that inside MA the fact you have a C&R is not relevant. It gains you nothing. You have to abide by all state laws as if you did not have the C&R. FTF you do a eFA10. A dealer can sell you the C&R but is subject to the "list" for handguns. While you are out of state, federal law is in play (plus state law of the state you are in).

Come 1/1/21 MA recognizes the C&R in so much as a MA dealer can transfer to you even if off list.

Did this happen because someone in MA gov. finally recognized the futility and unenforceability of the whole thing? [laugh] I'm going to guess that they did it because they could
actually get better compliance in some respect (eg, filing of FA-10s etc. )

Going back to early 2000s I always knew several MA dealers who would just go book to book on a C&R item with C&R holders. no FA 10 bullshit, no nothing. Check for LTC and C&R. Log gun out of BB. C&R holder logs gun in. Done. May not have been "MA legal" but several dealers did it, at least at one point. Hell they used to put signs in handgun cases at MA gun shows etc "For sale to C&R holders only" etc.
 
He couldn't have cared less because he very likely didn't know shit about the subject and was also very likely too lazy to actually research it.

In mass its also kind of meaningless and redundant information. "Oh so this guy is a "gun collector". Well we already knew that because we issued him an LTC"
 
You can find it all through MGL 140 121 through MGL 140 131x. The law was passed back at the end of 2015. The reason for the delay in implementation was related to how long it took for all the existing LTC Bs to expire out of existence. The problem is someone "accidentally" also made the C&R and other changes delayed until 1/1/21 at the same time. I am sure no malice involved (year, right)
A hard nope to the reason for this. My source is the two principals involved.

A NES'r lobbied hard for the C&R guns to be exempt from the EOPS List and since he was friends with the Senate Chair of the Public Safety Committee, it got included in the 2014 law. However, the antis went apeshit and thus a compromise was reached to not implement it until 2021 . . . I asked this question directly of said state senator when the three of us met to discuss the many issues of the Mass gun laws.
 
You can find it all through MGL 140 121 through MGL 140 131x. The law was passed back at the end of 2015. The reason for the delay in implementation was related to how long it took for all the existing LTC Bs to expire out of existence. The problem is someone "accidentally" also made the C&R and other changes delayed until 1/1/21 at the same time. I am sure no malice involved (year, right)

actually as the Senate Chair of the Public Safety Committee told me at the time that we pushed this change through that many of the dems felt that there would be a flood of C&R guns coming into the state and to get the change into law they had to push it out 6 years. We tried to get it amended but to no avail and then he retired.
 
I let my C&R expire last year just so I'd stop spending so much money on cool old guns and start spending more on my family. ;)

So far it's worked... somewhat.
 
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