Blueskyday
NES Member
GOAL - GunLawListeningTour
goal.org
Today at cape cod community college.
6-8pm
Tilden auditorium.
Sorry if dupe?
First I heard of it.
My girl works there and she had no idea...
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Cape Cod today Thursday 2/9 gun law listening tour?
- Thread starter Blueskyday
- Start date
goal.org
Today at cape cod community college.
6-8pm
Tilden auditorium.
Sorry if dupe?
First I heard of it.
My girl works there and she had no idea...
I can't find any info about it on mass.gov. The only info I'm finding is from GOAL and a couple other sites that just posted this same info from GOAL. Can anyone find a syllabus of their agenda, and other scheduled events? I'm planning on attending this one, but I don't like going in unprepared.
GOAL announced the "Listening Tour" on Tuesday via an email to their members.
Based on the legislature's past performance on gun issues it will most likely be a dog and pony show for the gun control crowd -- first three rows reserved for "Moms Demand Action" or "Everytown for Gun Safety" folks, 15 second time limit for gun owners, etc. The usual BS.
One the "tour" is concluded the legislators will go back to their fortress on Beacon Hill and announce that "the people have spoken".
OP should attend if he wishes to but don't expect too much.
Based on the legislature's past performance on gun issues it will most likely be a dog and pony show for the gun control crowd -- first three rows reserved for "Moms Demand Action" or "Everytown for Gun Safety" folks, 15 second time limit for gun owners, etc. The usual BS.
One the "tour" is concluded the legislators will go back to their fortress on Beacon Hill and announce that "the people have spoken".
OP should attend if he wishes to but don't expect too much.
I'm just throwing this out here. These talking points from GOAL strike me as technically correct, but phrased in an argumentative manner. This sort of approach in my opinion does not play well in a public comment forum if the intent is to foster meaningful conversation or sway an opposing opinion. https://www.goal.org/resources/Documents/TalkingPoints.pdf
I tend to agree with @LLF that the conclusions have already been drawn and decisions made, and that this is largely for show and maybe to gather up some supporting comments that can be used in the media. But I think it is best to go into these meetings heads up with an attitude of not coming off as a whiny crank, and being ready to address incorrect statements.
I tend to agree with @LLF that the conclusions have already been drawn and decisions made, and that this is largely for show and maybe to gather up some supporting comments that can be used in the media. But I think it is best to go into these meetings heads up with an attitude of not coming off as a whiny crank, and being ready to address incorrect statements.
This just wrapped up. 6p-8p. Representative Michael Day presided over the event and gave the introduction.
The auditorium was about 1/3 full. Maybe 150 people?
There were four panelists on stage to provide information from their perspectives on the crossroads of suicide and firearms. They were:
- Ellen Dalton of Nan Project
- Karen Ellery Jones of Samaritans Cape Cod
- Chief Matthew Sunnabend of Barnstable PD
- Kelly Cunningham of MA Department of Public Health
Also present in the front row were many prominent local politicians and public figures. I missed several names, but I was able to jot down Sarah Peake, Dylan Fernandes, Donna Buckley, Steve Xiarhos, and Kip Diggs. There was a lot of political horsepower in the room.
Rep Michael Day started the meeting off and identified the main subject of suicide and firearms and stressed that the listening tour is looking for information from all perspectives on what is working and what is not working regarding firearms laws and licensing in Massachusetts. He stated he has heard from many that it is difficult to comply with the many relevant laws in the state. But the meeting then went right to the panelists, who each spoke at length about suicide and how they are working to prevent it and respond to people in crisis. Each person gave thoughtful and compassionate speeches on the subject and I took several pages of notes on just this.
About 7pm Rep Day gave the floor to the people in the front row, and Sarah Peake spoke first. She spoke briefly about how the senate and house were moving to hybrid function so people could more readily participate in the process online, and that all hearings would be archived for 2 years so if you missed something, you'd be able to watch it when it's convenient for you. She also asked if you are commenting on something to send a letter to the chair of the committee and your rep so everyone is in the loop. She handed the mic off to Kip Diggs, and about this time, 7:10pm, someone from the left rear of the auditorium spoke up and asked something to the effect of was this was a listening tour, or were we just going to hear politicians talk to the crowd all night.
Representative Diggs made his talk short and the politicians as a group took their cue at this point and wrapped up their side to open the floor for public comment. By my notes 16 people had the chance to speak. It seemed most of the public commentary was comprised of people on the pro-firearms side of things and a few who seemed neutral on firearms, who largely were asking why this meeting was focusing on firearms used in suicide instead of providing mental health care resources for people who may be suicidal. Three people spoke promoting more firearms regulation. These people represented:
Moms Demand Action - focus of this comment was on promoting ERPO laws and making the public more aware of them
The League of Women Voters - focus of this comment was on providing more public education on firearms related to safe storage laws, eradicating ghost guns (3D printing mentioned specifically) and access to firearms by minors
The Massachusetts Coalition to Reduce Gun Violence - Stressed that between 2011 and 2020 there was a 60% increase in firearms related injury in minors (nationwide, not specifically in MA), and asked for improvement to safe storage laws
Most of the people who made public comments were well spoken, well prepared with facts, and asked good questions with just a couple... ramblers who eventually got to their point but didn't come off so great.
About half way through the public comment period, someone asked Representative Day directly why the meeting was focusing on suicide and firearms, if the intent is to foster a discussion about all firearms laws and what is and is not working. He replied that other stops in the listening tour would focus on other subjects. He did not have a schedule for where and when the other stops would be, or the other subjects they'd focus on.
One young woman stated plainly that the meeting was poorly announced, and that she did not learn of it until the last minute. That was my impression as well. It came off as kind of a secret public meeting, if such a thing exists.
The focus on suicide prevention and response seems like a well intentioned thing from the organizers' side, but maybe too focused on one subject. My knee jerk opinion is that if they continue this listening tour, the schedule needs to be announced well in advance so people can prepare, and each stop should include mostly public comment, not public education. The politicians should probably be on stage instead of in the first row of the audience, and answering (or at least listening to then later researching) questions presented by the audience.
I jotted down the names and points raised by each public commenter, but would rather avoid doxxing anyone here. A camera was running in the back of the auditorium, so I have to imagine either CCCC or the MA Legislature will have the video available at some point.
The auditorium was about 1/3 full. Maybe 150 people?
There were four panelists on stage to provide information from their perspectives on the crossroads of suicide and firearms. They were:
- Ellen Dalton of Nan Project
- Karen Ellery Jones of Samaritans Cape Cod
- Chief Matthew Sunnabend of Barnstable PD
- Kelly Cunningham of MA Department of Public Health
Also present in the front row were many prominent local politicians and public figures. I missed several names, but I was able to jot down Sarah Peake, Dylan Fernandes, Donna Buckley, Steve Xiarhos, and Kip Diggs. There was a lot of political horsepower in the room.
Rep Michael Day started the meeting off and identified the main subject of suicide and firearms and stressed that the listening tour is looking for information from all perspectives on what is working and what is not working regarding firearms laws and licensing in Massachusetts. He stated he has heard from many that it is difficult to comply with the many relevant laws in the state. But the meeting then went right to the panelists, who each spoke at length about suicide and how they are working to prevent it and respond to people in crisis. Each person gave thoughtful and compassionate speeches on the subject and I took several pages of notes on just this.
About 7pm Rep Day gave the floor to the people in the front row, and Sarah Peake spoke first. She spoke briefly about how the senate and house were moving to hybrid function so people could more readily participate in the process online, and that all hearings would be archived for 2 years so if you missed something, you'd be able to watch it when it's convenient for you. She also asked if you are commenting on something to send a letter to the chair of the committee and your rep so everyone is in the loop. She handed the mic off to Kip Diggs, and about this time, 7:10pm, someone from the left rear of the auditorium spoke up and asked something to the effect of was this was a listening tour, or were we just going to hear politicians talk to the crowd all night.
Representative Diggs made his talk short and the politicians as a group took their cue at this point and wrapped up their side to open the floor for public comment. By my notes 16 people had the chance to speak. It seemed most of the public commentary was comprised of people on the pro-firearms side of things and a few who seemed neutral on firearms, who largely were asking why this meeting was focusing on firearms used in suicide instead of providing mental health care resources for people who may be suicidal. Three people spoke promoting more firearms regulation. These people represented:
Moms Demand Action - focus of this comment was on promoting ERPO laws and making the public more aware of them
The League of Women Voters - focus of this comment was on providing more public education on firearms related to safe storage laws, eradicating ghost guns (3D printing mentioned specifically) and access to firearms by minors
The Massachusetts Coalition to Reduce Gun Violence - Stressed that between 2011 and 2020 there was a 60% increase in firearms related injury in minors (nationwide, not specifically in MA), and asked for improvement to safe storage laws
Most of the people who made public comments were well spoken, well prepared with facts, and asked good questions with just a couple... ramblers who eventually got to their point but didn't come off so great.
About half way through the public comment period, someone asked Representative Day directly why the meeting was focusing on suicide and firearms, if the intent is to foster a discussion about all firearms laws and what is and is not working. He replied that other stops in the listening tour would focus on other subjects. He did not have a schedule for where and when the other stops would be, or the other subjects they'd focus on.
One young woman stated plainly that the meeting was poorly announced, and that she did not learn of it until the last minute. That was my impression as well. It came off as kind of a secret public meeting, if such a thing exists.
The focus on suicide prevention and response seems like a well intentioned thing from the organizers' side, but maybe too focused on one subject. My knee jerk opinion is that if they continue this listening tour, the schedule needs to be announced well in advance so people can prepare, and each stop should include mostly public comment, not public education. The politicians should probably be on stage instead of in the first row of the audience, and answering (or at least listening to then later researching) questions presented by the audience.
I jotted down the names and points raised by each public commenter, but would rather avoid doxxing anyone here. A camera was running in the back of the auditorium, so I have to imagine either CCCC or the MA Legislature will have the video available at some point.
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Having attended and spoke at the last "listening tour" back ~2014, I can tell you that they aren't listening. They already know what they plan on doing, and they are just glad-handing the gun owners. Folks should still go, put together a succinct argument against any further intrusions on the 2nd A and support GOAL. Just don't expect that they will listen and respond favorably on Bacon Hill!
thorin
NES Member
I also attended a few of these then, and I agree with your sentiment. Our state rep ended up coming up to our club, taking the LTC class and getting her license after speaking with some members at one of the events, and turned out to actually be a pretty decent human being. So it definitely wasn't time wasted.
Re suicide, in Mass firearms are used in less than 25% on average (22% in 2020). Hanging is by far the most popular method, double that of fireams (45%).
Still looking, however
Day said the House will launch a statewide listening tour on gun issues in February. The first of at least 10 stops will be on Cape Cod and focus on suicide by gun. Future topics will include gun violence against women and in communities of color, the concerns of hunters and responsible gun owners, and the sale of modified versions of banned or prohibited guns.
“We’ll be hitting everywhere from Fall River to the Berkshires, to Lowell and in Boston and everywhere in between,” Day said. “Everything is on the table.” ![[puke]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/023.gif "Puke [puke]")
I can't believe it has been 9 years. Naughton cannot be trusted. At the last moment I remember they 'accidentally' posting the wrong address for at least two of the meetings and phucked with the starting times.
About the Event
Event |Fri, March 14, 2014 - 6:30am
LOCATION
United StatesState Representative Harold Naughton will travel to Somerville to co-host a Gun Violence Listening Tour with Mayor Curtatone. Since April, Representative Naughton has held various listening tours around the Commonwealth with local elected officials, law enforcement and concerned constituents. In addition to the listening tours, Representative Naughton has conducted five statewide legislative hearings in his capacity as House Chairman of the Public Safety and Homeland Security Committee, on the proposed legislation regarding current and future gun laws in Massachusetts.
The purpose of the listening tour is to engage local residents, elected officials, and public safety personnel in a public forum to discuss issues related to firearms and the best possible methods to reduce and ultimately eliminate firearm violence.
Members of the public are invited to join the discussion and share ideas.
A public commenter asked Kelley Cunningham of the MA DPH if firearms only represent 21% of suicides (that was the number presented during the meeting), what the top three methods used were? She responded #1 was by hanging, then #2 and #3 were roughly a tie between firearms and drug overdose.
A couple of the public commenters made the point that hanging was the #1 method used in MA. One of the commenters asked the panel the rhetorical question that if the intent is to reduce suicide and most suicides in MA are by hanging, will there be restrictions on rope?
One commenter asked the Barnstable PD chief if when processing an ERPO, if the intent really is to protect the person in question from harming themselves, in addition to collecting the firearms from the subject, do the police also search for and collect other means a person may use to harm themselves such as rope, drugs, knives, etcetera, and call in mental health resources. There was an interruption as someone else spoke up, but once that had settled, the chief then took the floor to answer the commenter that no, the ERPO is just related to firearms.
The Barnstable PD chief did state that since the ERPO law went into effect, none have been processed in Barnstable, to which there was applause in the crowd. He also suggested that the 911 system is great at getting fire trucks, ambulances, and police cars sent to the right places quickly, but not so great at getting mental health resources to the right places quickly and that this needs to be improved. He explained that one of the programs they support is to have mental health providers ride along with patrol officers to respond to various calls to see what they're dealing with, and coach the PD.
I had intended to ask the chief and Representative Xiarhos how the ERPO law changes things in MA, since (I think I am correct here but not positive) town PD chiefs already had the authority to suspend or revoke a licensee's license if there was a valid reason to do so. But there were so many speakers lined up the meeting ended before everyone had a chance to speak. My impression of this law, and those of you who are more tuned in to this please step in and correct me, is that it was not necessary in MA specifically, but was part of a national push by some attorneys general to make this process available in states where there is either no firearms licensing or the licensing in effect does not allow police the authority to rescind them and confiscate firearms quickly.
If anyone finds a link to the video recording of the meeting, please post it in this thread. Thank you.
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Dennis in MA
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What the hell? Not listening?? Next you'll tell me that Secret Sauce really isn't all that secret. (So much so that at some McD's, they look at you like you're head's screwed on funny. "You mean Big Mac Sauce?" NO!)
I never got that.
Too many ways to screw up and die a horrible death.
thorin
NES Member
There were over 2,000 opiod overdose deaths from Oct 2019 to March 2021 source https://www.mass.gov/doc/opioid-related-overdose-deaths-among-ma-residents-may-2021/download . I only see 112 "poisoning" deaths in the 2020 MA suicide stats (615 suicides total) source https://www.mass.gov/doc/2020-suicide-data-table/download , and there isn't a separate column for overdoses. I'm sure most of those weren't intentional, but it seems they are purposely leaving opiod overdoses out of the suicide count. Whether intentional or not, more than 10x people died from opiod overdoses (not counting other drugs) than firearm suicides in that time period, not "roughly equal" as the DPH spokesperson claimed.
LTCRN
NES Member
Len, I agree with what you stated The one I attended, the scumbag that represented Walpole was trying to stay awake and kept looking at his watch. Scrivener was there too! The whole thing was nothing but a vent session. To bad, they didn't give a damn what legal firearms owners had to say or what we thought. Naughton and his minions got to say we gave the people a chance to speak, like they said they would, and just wasted taxpayers money and our time.
Just following up on this to hand off some info in case anyone else would like to pick up the ball and run with it.
There was a videographer in the back of the auditorium recording this event. The day after the event, I phoned Representative Michael Day's office and requested a copy of the video, or information on where I could view it online. There was no response for this request.
I contacted the CCCC library, and asked if they knew where I could access a copy. A librarian responded to this request immediately, and pointed me toward Cape Media in Dennisport. One of their members had performed the video recording. I called the main number on their web page, but was not able to reach a live person. They have a library of recordings available on their web site, but I haven't been able to find the one of this meeting.
This seems like something that should be in the public domain and readily available. But I've run into enough dead ends that I'm not the one who's going to dig it out.
I caught the GOAL podcast which covered this meeting, but... it seems like they just read my post above and used that as a data source. I'm not sure anyone from GOAL was actually at the meeting.
There was a videographer in the back of the auditorium recording this event. The day after the event, I phoned Representative Michael Day's office and requested a copy of the video, or information on where I could view it online. There was no response for this request.
I contacted the CCCC library, and asked if they knew where I could access a copy. A librarian responded to this request immediately, and pointed me toward Cape Media in Dennisport. One of their members had performed the video recording. I called the main number on their web page, but was not able to reach a live person. They have a library of recordings available on their web site, but I haven't been able to find the one of this meeting.
This seems like something that should be in the public domain and readily available. But I've run into enough dead ends that I'm not the one who's going to dig it out.
I caught the GOAL podcast which covered this meeting, but... it seems like they just read my post above and used that as a data source. I'm not sure anyone from GOAL was actually at the meeting.
