Carrying in Car in all 50 States

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Okay, after studying packing.org and other sites and other sources I cannot seem to find the answer that I am looking for.

If you have a LTC A from Mass, then it is clear which states you can carry concealed in. Or if I have a non-resident UT CCW permit, again this is clear.
And with the Federal laws concerning peacable journey it is clear (somewhat, but I carry a copy of this law in my car) that I can drive through one state as long as the start and end of my trips are in states I am legal in. But if I stop overnight in another state, the law gets a bit cloudy.

Now the question----
How about NOT carrying concealed? What if I go to another state and keep my unloaded handgun in a locked case in the trunk? I am not CCW.
But I do know that some states allow "unloaded in the trunk" and some do not. For example in my second home in Wash DC, it is absolutely forbidden to even have a firearm in the District at any time. I know that IL, NJ and NYC also have some strict laws, that could cause problems for a "locked case in the trunk." Even "peacable journey" has been difficult to use in DC, if you are caught.

A current example- I am going to the LFI course in NH next month. My Mass LTC A is useless in NH. But, do I assume that "unloaded, locked case in the trunk" is legal for a non-resident.

I guess I am asking where do I find a list of the state laws for this, just as
packing.org has done (very, very well) for the CCW question????

And to help, I ask that no one give me the "simple" answer and tell me to just get the non-resident LTC from NH. I travel to all 50 states on a regular basis, so this is not practicle. And, yes, I will be getting my Utah non-resident permit after my Utah course, so I will have the CCW question covered for 26 states.

But again, my question is for NON-CCW in other states with my legal Mass handguns.
Anyone know of such a list? I am hoping that the list for "Illegal to carry at all" is very short.

Thanks in advance.
 

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From what I know of the Federal Law, you have to be licensed in the state you start the trip in, and you have to be licensed in the state you end the trip in. Now most states don't require you to have a permit for a locked gun in the car. Mass is one of the growing Communist states in the nation that require that.

Peaceable journey means just that, keep your shit locked and just drive to your destination. :D
 
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traveler57 said:
A current example- I am going to the LFI course in NH next month. My Mass LTC A is useless in NH. But, do I assume that "unloaded, locked case in the trunk" is legal for a non-resident.
For this example.. Why not apply for a NH non-resident Concealed Carry Permit. I got mine back 5 days from the day I mailed it, and that included 2 weekend days, and a Monday holiday..


Adam
 
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Packing.org

Why not go to packing.org to research which states accept most other states and buy a handful of licenses? If you want to be 100% legal, then go buy 5-7 state licenses and you should be able to get ~40 states of coverage.

Or you could just lock the unloaded gun in a case, then put the case inside a briefcase or bag in the trunck. While there is always some remote chance that you could get caught, it is highly unlikely. If you ever do get caught most states aren't going to prosecute you if you have a LTC to carry in your state. Just don't be stupid and speed excessively, etc.

You have to make the decision to be 100% legal by purchasing a bunch of licenses or be willing to take the risk.
 

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There are not that many places in the country where you need a license simply to HAVE a gun. Most places it's just to carry loaded and concealed.

Washington DC is a right out ban, so if going there, leave the guns home, but who would want to go there?

Ma, NYC, Hawaii, and I believe New Jersey are the only places you need a permit just to have a gun. I'm sure someone better versed than I will complete the list.

One of the provisions that was passed in the Federal "Gun Owner's Protection Act" was a federal law that stated simply says:

"If you are legal where you start a trip, and you are legal where you end the trip, you can transport your gun from Point A to Point B legally so long as the gun is unloaded, cased, and locked."
 
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Quick State Result Set

From Packing.org: http://www.packing.org/license_tool/

Assumption is that you have a MA LTC and you buy a Florida Non-Resident. This combination of licenses gives you legal coverage to carry concealed in 27 states. Alaska to VT is the MA coverage and AL to WY is the Florida coverage. Pretty good coverage for buying one additional license.....

Alaska
Arizona
Idaho
Indiana
Kentucky
Michigan
Missouri
Montana
Oklahoma
South Dakota
Tennessee
Utah
Vermont
Alabama
Arkansas
Colorado
Delaware
Georgia
Mississippi
New Hampshire
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Pennslyvania
Texas
Virginia
Wyoming

Just lock in other states and stay away from DC, NY City, etc.
 

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CFFuts,

New Hampshire doesn't recognize a Florida non-resident license. If you live in Mass and want to carry in NH, you'll need to get a NH non-resident license. Fortunately that's quick, painless, and cheap.
 
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All good answers

Guys, I was aftraid of this when I asked this question. Almost everyone is giving great advice, but to a question I did not ask. I know very well that I will have to get CCW permits that cover the states that I will carry concealed. And YES, I will get as many permits as my bank account can afford.

And advice to "stay out of NYC and DC" or "hide your guns in the trunk and hope you don't get caught" are not real useful answers.

And I am not asking about situations covered by "peacable journey." That is extremely clear.

I am speaking of my plans to visit Utah, then Oregon, then Nevada, and then on to Arizona, then come back to Mass. This is a very typical 2 week trip for my business, but I would like to start planning my business trips to include GunSite, Front Sight, Thunder Ranch, John Farnum and other ranges. In this example a CCW permit fron MA AND the nonres NH would NOT help me at all in OR or NV. So, again, I would like some hard evidence that driving from the airport in Vegas to the range with an "unloaded, locked case in the trunk" is 100% legal.

I know of a case where a Maine resident went to PA, but stopped at a friends house for 2 days in Mass. (unloaded firearm in locked case in trunk) In some cases Mass LEOs could interpet this as outside of the FED law.
In another case a MA LTC A drives to NH for training, (unloaded in trunk) then drives on to their camp in northern Maine (unloaded in trunk). My $10,000/10 years in jail question is, "Is this second example fully legal?"

BUT back to my specific question. I am asking about NOT carrying concealled, but only unloaded in the trunk. And as one person said most states don't require a permit just to "own" a firearm. So, just as the one poster said, I just need to know the few states and a few cities that have that particular requirement. My own research says this to be IL, NJ, NYC, DC, and HI.

Can anyone point to a place that can fully confirm this??
Anyone with actual experience with this?

Sorry for the long post, but as the posts so far point out, everyone seems to only be thinking in terms of CCW and not the obvious second option of unloaded in teh trunk.
 
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Re: Quick State Result Set

CFFuts said:
From Packing.org: http://www.packing.org/license_tool/

Assumption is that you have a MA LTC and you buy a Florida Non-Resident. This combination of licenses gives you legal coverage to carry concealed in 27 states. Alaska to VT is the MA coverage and AL to WY is the Florida coverage. Pretty good coverage for buying one additional license.....

Alaska
Arizona
Idaho
Indiana
Kentucky
Michigan
Missouri
Montana
Oklahoma
South Dakota
Tennessee
Utah
Vermont
Alabama
Arkansas
Colorado
Delaware
Georgia
Mississippi
New Hampshire
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Pennslyvania
Texas
Virginia
Wyoming

Just lock in other states and stay away from DC, NY City, etc.
If you get a UT non-res you can get these same states and plus, add Louisiana, Minnesota, and Washington state to your list

BTW, do you have experience in "just lock in other states"?
 

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Re: All good answers

Let me see if I can answer the questions as they fall....

traveler57 said:
So, again, I would like some hard evidence that driving from the airport in Vegas to the range with an "unloaded, locked case in the trunk" is 100% legal.
Yes, there is no issue in Navada regarding the transport of a gun in your vehicle in that state. In fact, with a few exceptions (mentioned above) most states don't care one bit if a gun is in a car in a locked and unloaded state.


traveler57 said:
I know of a case where a Maine resident went to PA, but stopped at a friends house for 2 days in Mass. (unloaded firearm in locked case in trunk) In some cases Mass LEOs could interpet this as outside of the FED law.
It is. Trip MUST be contiguous. Some minor stops for food and overnight lodging are allowed, but no long stops to visit as that is a destination.

traveler57 said:
In another case a MA LTC A drives to NH for training, (unloaded in trunk) then drives on to their camp in northern Maine (unloaded in trunk). My $10,000/10 years in jail question is, "Is this second example fully legal?"
You don't mention if the trunk is a true lockable container that is not easily accessable from any other location but the locked truck lid (no internal pass-through) which can cause issues. But assuming the trunk is a true lockable container, neither NH, nor Maine could care less about you having the gun. A better choice is a locked CASE in the truck as it removes any question about the security of the trunk itself.

traveler57 said:
BUT back to my specific question. I am asking about NOT carrying concealled, but only unloaded in the trunk. And as one person said most states don't require a permit just to "own" a firearm. So, just as the one poster said, I just need to know the few states and a few cities that have that particular requirement. My own research says this to be IL, NJ, NYC, DC, and HI.
Well, the complete list would be rather long. The problem is that communities can also create local laws that could cause issues. However, the federal law usually is fine for these issues as you will only be passing through.

Other issues arise. For example, if you were not passing through New York, but actually going to New York (not the city, but just the state) you need to have a copy of your competition flier or some proof of going to hunt.

Same deal with Illinois. a non-resident can transport if it is for hunting or to a target facility. Chicago has it's own rules as do several of the surrounding communities like Morton's Grove where guns are effectively illegal, but passage through these areas is permitted. If you need to stop there, that's when you could face issues.

Your best bet is to first read the NRA statement on the various issues:

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=59

and then contact the specific states you will be dealing with for specifics. And I don't mean contact the state, but a 'good guy' in the state. For example, the NRA rep for this area is a NJ lawyer and would be helpful for trips in that neck of the woods. Problem states tend to have fairly active groups like our GOAL (although GOAL is exceptional in what it does) that can help you out.

To find the answer as to exaclty what every community in the country has for laws is completely unrealistic. This is why the federal law was passed. Understand that the local law only really is supposed to apply if you end a trip or a segemnt of a trip in their community. And in that case you do need to do some looking.

There is a reason that gun owners point out that there are some 20,000 gun laws on the books and few - if any - actually do any good. Imagine the outcry if states did this to automobile ownership. But since it's just those polite and harmess gun owners...

Hope that helps.
 

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Based on your MA resident LTC, you're good to carry concealed in Arizona and Utah. Nevada is out for concealed, but transport in the car seems to be OK, with some qualifications:
Packing.org said:
Nevada State Law is silent on motor vehicle carriage of firearms. Any law-abiding citizen may carry a handgun, loaded or unloaded, in their vehicle.

Some cities like North Las Vegas and Boulder City have "Deadly Weapon" laws, and you may be cited or arrested if you pass through their jurisdictions with a gun in the vehicle.
Oregon also seems to be OK for vehicle transport as long it's not concealed and within reach:
Packing.org said:
166.250 Unlawful possession of firearms.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section or ORS 166.260, 166.270, 166.274, 166.291, 166.292 or 166.410 to 166.470, a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:
...
(b) Possesses a handgun that is concealed and readily accessible to the person within any vehicle; or
...
Ken
 
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Thank you Chris for your points. And exaclty as you state, there are so many laws on the books of states, counties, cities, etc. that it can be a nightmare to sort them out. BTW, this is what prompted my questions in the first place. Looks like I may just end up "cutting and pasting" together all the laws myself and I may have a long search ahead of me.

Your Illinois example is a good one. Here is a section of the IL law.
Look at line b-10. A lay person could read this as a Mass LTC A person
can leagally carry a unload gun in a locked case. Note no mention of the trunk. But, as you mentioned, IL is a state that is full of "gun free zones" and local laws that seem to supercede state or federal law.

For Residents----
(a) (1) No person may acquire or possess any firearm within this State without having in his or her possession a Firearm Owner's Identification Card previously issued in his or her name by the Department of State Police under the provisions of this Act.

(b) The provisions of this Section regarding the possession of firearms and firearm ammunition do not apply to:

(7) Nonresidents while on a firing or shooting range recognized by the Department of State Police; however, these persons must at all other times and in all other places have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(8) Nonresidents while at a firearm showing or display recognized by the Department of State Police; however, at all other times and in all other places these persons must have their firearms unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(9) Nonresidents whose firearms are unloaded and enclosed in a case;
(10) Nonresidents who are currently licensed or registered to possess a firearm in their resident state;

And this is just for one state, and now I have 49 to go. But I am finding that the states that you cannot even carry in the trunk/locked case/unloaded is not going to be very long. I have found written law for NYC and DC so far. I just want to confirm all the states from written law, and not just heresay.

Thanks again for your input. Since this is turning out to be a HUGE question, we can end this post string, and I will repost in a few months when I have found all the info.
 
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NH Notes

Just to be clear, per the NH and Florida State police web sites. NH will NOT honor a Florida non-resident CCW. NH will only honor a Resident CCW.

So, looks like I will go ahead and get my $20 non-resident NH CCW, just because I plan to go there often enough, and to take the LFI classes.

And yes, for NH, I have found the following statute concerning non-permit holders-

"A person may carry a handgun openly upon his person or unloaded and exposed or locked up in a vehicle without a license to carry."

But as many have stated before, the clearest (easiest to do) is to carry my guns unloaded, in a locked case in the trunk, to be well inside the law.

Thanks again to all on this forum. It is already a wealth of info for the new shooter.


For my next question----(or maybe Len will want this moved to the "ammo" forum) Any comments on buying ammo in other states without a CCW? The only info I have found so far is that some states require you to at least be a state resident, and some will sell to you and only require you to be over 21. I know that a NH pistol sale will have to go through a NH FFL to a MA FFL transfer. But what about ammo?

Any comments or experience on buying ammo in the New Englands states?
 
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The only states I've purchasd ammo in (other than MA) were NH and ME. In both states I showed my MA LTC and was good to go. Can't answer about any others.
 

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Re: NH Notes

traveler57 said:
Any comments on buying ammo in other states without a CCW? The only info I have found so far is that some states require you to at least be a state resident, and some will sell to you and only require you to be over 21. I know that a NH pistol sale will have to go through a NH FFL to a MA FFL transfer. But what about ammo?

Any comments or experience on buying ammo in the New Englands states?
NH is no problem; I don't even remember showing my LTC. Out of New England, NJ is no problem as long as you're over a certain age - 18, I think.

Ross
 

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At gun shows in MA and NH I have NEVER been asked for anything at all when buying ammo/mags! [This is certainly NOT legal for the seller in MA not to demand the LTC, but that is the way they do business . . . at least until they get "stung" by the AG. BTW, I have no sympathy if they do get caught . . . they are being stupid and it only takes a few seconds for them to look at it and hand it back, no paperwork is needed to comply with that law.]

I've bought ammo a number of times at the Hudson NH Wal-Mart and sometimes I have been asked for ID and sometimes not. Anytime that I've been asked for ID, I show them my NH CCW and that's all they need. I've intentionally never showed them my MA LTC, just to see if they'd insist on it and the answer is No (I could be buying it to shoot in NH and thus wouldn't need a MA license of any sort, regardless of where I live). Probably a DL from anywhere would work just as well in those free states.
 
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I haven't been asked for my license in gun shops in NH, but I have when I've purchased bricks of .22's at Wal-mart - every time.
 
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THANKS

This is great information. Kinda what a forum is all about. Each of us being able to learn from someone else who has already done something we haven't.

I plan to shoot in ME and NH quite a bit in the future. AND, if I can gain from buying ALL my ammo at lower prices there (no sales tax too), then I save enough to buy the next gun. (For local Gunshops, don't worry, as I will still buy my guns from you locally.)

If others have experienced buying in other states (via airplane) it would be great to hear about it. Another poster talked about the hassle of taking large amounts of .223 for a match, and the airport folks gave him a fit. For his next match, he had friends buy the ammo for him in Washington State.

I can just see the faces of TSA when I bring my 1000 rds for a class at Gunsite...... Of course for all the formal training centers, I am sure that they have tackled this problem before, so I will just ask them when I register.
 

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Re: THANKS

traveler57 said:
This is great information. Kinda what a forum is all about. Each of us being able to learn from someone else who has already done something we haven't.

If others have experienced buying in other states (via airplane) it would be great to hear about it. Another poster talked about the hassle of taking large amounts of .223 for a match, and the airport folks gave him a fit. For his next match, he had friends buy the ammo for him in Washington State.

I can just see the faces of TSA when I bring my 1000 rds for a class at Gunsite...... Of course for all the formal training centers, I am sure that they have tackled this problem before, so I will just ask them when I register.
The reason for the forums are to share info (except that which can be used against us . . . i.e. who will ship into MA), so I'm glad that you like it here. :)

I think I resemble the remark about traveling with .223 ammo! It was 140 rds of .223 that drove the people at NWA (Logan Airport) into convulsions of stupidity! It was also 1999 when we could actually travel freely (unlike now). Now I largely refuse to fly. . .unless totally unavoidable!

FAA Regs and airline rules (each one may be different) restrict the amount of ammo in "pounds", not rounds and it is a small number. You will NOT be allowed to travel with anything like 1000 rds of .223! Check the rules but I think the maximum amount is somewhere between 5 and 11 pounds of ammo!

What people do that fly out to Gunsite, Frontsight, etc. is one of two things:
- They pre-order by phone from Wal-Mart (in Pahrump, near Frontsight) and pick up their cases of ammo on arrival, shoot it there or sell it. I have some friends (a couple are forum members) who regularly go out there and walk out of Wal-Mart with 4-5K of .45 ammo. CAUTION: A Wal-Mart store does NOT stock those kind of quantities, so you must look up the store and call them to order it in advance of your trip.
- They pre-order from folks like Ammoman, etc. and have it shipped to arrive at the training center the day before they arrive. This MUST be pre-arranged with the training center.

Be aware that a few folks are bringing instructors who teach at Frontsight, Gunsite, etc. here to the Nashua area each year. I took 1 such class last Summer and 3 this Summer. Another class is still scheduled for September this year and next year's schedule is in the works.
See www.neshooters.com for the details or search here for the threads in the Training forum.
 
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TSA and weight of Ammo?

Yeh, I knew the 1000 rds was a bit much..... But I will look through the various sites and see if I can find the "weight" of ammo that I can legally carry in my luggage. Would be interesting to know.

Yes, I have seen your posts about other training and who you and others are bringing to New England. This is great. I am set for LFI-1 and PSI in October and from there the sky is the limit, (or my budget.) I do happend to travel the 50 states for 50 weeks a year for my business so I may have the chance at a large number of potential training classes. But, if you can bring the instructors to us, that is always better. Keep up the great work. I will keep my eye on neshooters.com

Thanks.
 

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There isn't any single answer to that question. Individual airlines can and do set their own restrictions over and above those imposed by the FAA or TSA. There can be significant differences between carriers. You need to verify the policies of the airline that you're actually going to be flying.

Ken
 
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Re: Quick State Result Set

CFFuts said:
Assumption is that you have a MA LTC and you buy a Florida Non-Resident. This combination of licenses gives you legal coverage to carry concealed in 27 states. Alaska to VT is the MA coverage and AL to WY is the Florida coverage. Pretty good coverage for buying one additional license.....
Utah is far cheaper than Florida, and covers EVERY state Florida does except Florida (FL doesn't recognize ANY NR CCW Permits).
 
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Here is Maryland's Law

Article 27 SEC. 36B. Maryland

Any person who shall wear, carry, or transport any handgun, whether concealed or open, upon or about his person, and any person who shall wear, carry, or knowingly transport any handgun, whether concealed or open, in any vehicle traveling upon the public roads, highways, waterways, or airways or upon roads or parking lots generally used by the public in this State shall be guilty of a misdemeanor

But I haven't found the law about carrying ammo in MD. I'll keep looking.

Looks like you will have be very tight to the law of peaceable journey or end up with problems....
 
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