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Center Console Safe?

SigNorthShore said:
Hello - I know this has been discussed in previous posts but how many folks out there in Massachusetts use a center console safe? Are they legal?
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IANAL, but I think that counts towards the "unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk, or other secure container" when the pistol is not in your direct control. Note that the center console or glove compartment are not typically considered a "locked case" or "secure container" on their own, even if they require a key. But I think a safe secured (bolted down from inside) inside the console is legit. Others might weigh in though.

I have an under seat car safe with cable tether for the rare instances I go somewhere where I can't carry. My center console isn't big enough for a safe.
 
Woodstone said:
Legal? Nothing is legal in MA.

OP 'goin to jail.

Hi Maura!

Welcome.

Go GREEN.

All that...
Click to expand...

Yeah, but what if my chain guns are technically secure before deployment? MA legal?

james-bond-no-time-to-die-trailer.gif
 
I do not believe a center console safe would satisfy FOPA, though that was not the precise question asked.
 
SigNorthShore said:
Do you feel the center console safes are illegal?
Click to expand...
No, but I can blow some smoke about them:

If you read the existing threads on NES,
you'll read time and again about the prison guard
who (IIRC) went to jail for locking a gun in a glove compartment,
(where even the parking lot at a prison is a total gun-free zone),
and being naive enough to get found out.

The locking glove compartment probably satisfied the actual law,
and yet the guy went to jail because judge and prosecution
couldn't care less what the law actually says. And when people move on
to discuss serious high-quality locking cases for center consoles,
there's lot's of chest beating about how they're much more secure
than some mere glove compartment..."and nobody's been convicted for using them yet".

I don't recall reading a single Mass. anecdote on NES about
a console gun safe that actually passed the legal sniff test
either administered on the side of the road, or in court.

(I don't recall reading anecdotes about under-seat boxes
or boxes in trunks, either. But they're a little more common,
and perhaps just a hair less risky from the legal standpoint).

I've kept a Harbor Freight .30cal case w/ toy padlock
and $13 gun show foam insert that cushions a handgun and four mags
in the trunk of my car for maybe 2-3 years now.
It's my contingency plan for encountering an unanticipated
serious statutory gun-free zone while carrying.
(E.g., a venue that just got metal detectors).

And while reading this thread earlier I realized that I'm not sure
I've ever used it. If I know I'm going to a school,
or someplace with a magnetometer - I just don't carry.

I don't try to surreptitiously lock up a gun
in a webcam-studded parking garage thronged with
some mix of criminals and liberals,
or flounce around on the side of a highway just before the destination
sneaking it into (the box in) the trunk
like I'm some kind of Antient Risen Moor from Rhode Island topping off a gas tank.

The center console is better than car trunk located storage
or under the seat storage, in that you are not involved in
calisthenics that look suspiciously like someone stashing a gun in their car.

But trunk storage is 100% out of sight, which means that unless
a cop generates some pretext to conduct an involuntary warrantless search,
it's just not a factor. On the other hand, if a cop is tossing everything within
lunging range of the (extricated) driver in the passenger compartment,
flips open the console and see a padlock, now he's got a hard-on to open it.
Same goes for a cable looped around the seat track - in a traffic stop,
the floor and footwells get examined with microscopic care from
outside the car, looking for booze, drugs, and guns "in plain view".

I'd love to see a locking armrest that covers the secure lid just for the annoyance value.


Most of the above can be dismissed as me spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.
But if you actually shared your intended use case(s)
(which is a risk in itself, online), it's possible that some of them
would raise legit concerns from NESers with more gravitas.

For instance, if your employer forbids guns at work,
and you think you're gonna stash it in the armrest every day,
it makes a difference whether or not you can guarantee that neither
a passerby nor security cam will ever see you do it. Because the average
employer makes no distinction between your cubicle and the parking lot.
And stashing a gun daily at a T garage is different than stashing it
at the company-owned parking lot of a secluded suburban office park.


When people finish tearing all the above to shreds,
you'll get a better feel for the legal risks.
 
AHM said:
Sorry in advance if my geometric logic gets the big Thumbs Down
from those in the know.
Click to expand...
See the discussion in the thread COMMONWEALTH vs. Amaury REYES. @CrackPot hits the nail on the head with his first post.
CrackPot said:
"Once the defendant left his motor vehicle and the firearm in it, he became subject to the storage statue because he was storing or keeping his firearm..."

This is the best line in the entire opinion so far. It clearly states that parked car is storage, not transport.
Click to expand...
You can read the entire decision here: REYES, COMMONWEALTH vs., 464 Mass. 245

The decision has many useful tidbits of info in it but the biggest is that a parked car is storage not transport and that:

Statutory and regulatory references to acceptable containers include safes, [Note 8] weapon boxes, [Note 9] locked cabinets, [Note 10] gun cases, [Note 11] lock boxes, and locked trunks of vehicles.
Click to expand...

By any definition a Console Vault is considered a safe.

As to the Reyes case, the above says that there was conflicting testimony given as to whether the glove box was locked or not. The decision implied that if the glove box was locked in such a manner as to "deter all but the most persistent from gaining access” then it would satisfy the storage laws.

This does not resolve whether a locked glove compartment might be adequate under the storage statute. We are of the view that it might depending on the particular factual circumstances including the nature of the locking mechanism, whether the motor vehicle was also locked and alarmed, and ultimately whether in the circumstances it was adequate to "deter all but the most persistent from gaining access." This is a question of fact, properly decided by the fact finder at trial.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
cathouse01 said:
See the discussion in the thread COMMONWEALTH vs. Amaury REYES. @CrackPot hits the nail on the head with his first post.

You can read the entire decision here: REYES, COMMONWEALTH vs., 464 Mass. 245

The decision has many useful tidbits of info in it but the biggest is that a parked car is storage not transport and that:



By any definition a Console Vault is considered a safe.

As to the Reyes case, the above says that there was conflicting testimony given as to whether the glove box was locked or not. The decision implied that if the glove box was locked in such a manner as to "deter all but the most persistent from gaining access” then it would satisfy the storage laws.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
 

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